How many jobs are on the line?

[killer1980]

This is a real interesting post, when you check the history of Dubas, the question has to be, why was Shanahan so impressed with this guy, why was he even hired at that young age, he has won absolutely nothing, track record in Junior was mediocre

I have never understood the old farts attraction to boy geniuses. It happens in every business. The only thing I know for sure is those old guys loved going to bars and public places with these so-called geniuses and get their egos stroked. It never had anything to do with talent or ability. It all had to do with being cool.

 

[Myopic]

A good coach would know which of the top guys just don't have "it". Nylander was one of the better Leafs players but you have to trade him to get some cap relief. Marner is a solid piece and the captain is untrade-able unless they give him away or take back some salary. I'm guessing Sheldon Keefe is going to get fired. Something big has to happen to shake things up.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Perfect example of why arguing with people on the internet is pointless. I'm now being labeled a fanboy by not knee-jerking.

By the way, how did Lou's team do this year?

Lou’s team missed the playoffs.

I’m sure if what had transpired with the Isles this year had occurred with the Leafs many here would be giving Dubas the benefit of the doubt though.

But guess what?

Lou still found his team’s performance unacceptable and fired one of the best coaches in the game.

Is that a knee-jerk reaction?

Perhaps, but I think Lou instinctively knows coaches have a shelf life and Trotz’s time with the Isles was close to the end.

 

[Canadian Finn]

This is a real interesting post, when you check the history of Dubas, the question has to be, why was Shanahan so impressed with this guy, why was he even hired at that young age, he has won absolutely nothing, track record in Junior was mediocre

Shanny knew our young and jubilant fanbase would identify with him.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

The dubas fan boys act like dubas is some genius but who thinks locking 50% of your cap in 4 forwards is a smart idea?

Who thought getting rid of mcbackup for sparks was intelligent?

Who thought trading Kadri for kerfoot and barrie was a huge win for us?

The answer to all three questions above is dubas and his fan club.

But it seems like after supporting dubas so faithfully for 4 years, it has become newr impossible to admit that they were wrong. Instead they just come up with worse and worse excuses after each successive fires round loss.

Yes Dubas is a genius who can’t figure out how to get past the first round.

 

[BackPassChampions]

I agree that we should move on from Keefe.

Bring in Trotz. Do whatever it takes to get him.

We also need a stud goalie, but that’s not an easy task.

Defense and supporting forward cast needs to be retooled.

 

[HolyCrap]

I’m not gonna say scorched earth but a full retool needs to be done. Including management and coaching. Move some core pieces because it’s obvious this teams isnt built for playoffs. That is 100 percent proven.

 

[Mehar]

An embarrassing organization.

As a Leafs Fan, it is embarrassing for being situated in the supposed Mecca of Hockey, and not being able to win a Playoff Round in 18 years. If Shanahan did not have 3 years left on his deal, I would have hoped he would have been let go from his position too. Guy has been here 8 years, with nothing to show for it but embarrassing First Round Exits.

 

[saffronleaf]

Lol you don't trade a 60 goal scorer away, I'm just as pissed as anybody about this 6 year choke job but scorched earth is not the gameplan. 40 million in 4 forwards is just not going to work, we need a dynamic D-man to join the team, all around top line talented D, Nyalnder on the way out to make room for him.

Tavares will not go anywhere, Matthews scores 60 friggin goals not going anywhere, Marner is 100 point playmaker so Nylander is the odd man out for a change in team dynamics.

would much rather get rid of marner. when it comes to the playoffs the difference between them is marginal.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

They have us trained well, seems the majority are not upset with the loss because we made it competitive, that's the sad truth of it all, we are so starved for success and so used to absolute failure that we're happy now just making it competitive.

Seems like nothing is changing and we will go in next year which will be 7 years of tinkering to the same effect.

Oh well, it is what it is, but at some point we have to look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves, this is 6 straight years of first round exits. With no changes Einstein would think us crazy.

Just think, if Dubas does ever manage to get the Leafs to the second round, we’ll probably be stuck with him for an additional four years after that.

 

[Myopic]

I agree that we should move on from Keefe.

Bring in Trotz. Do whatever it takes to get him.

We also need a stud goalie, but that’s not an easy task.

Defense and supporting forward cast needs to be retooled.

They should be drafting a goalie in the top 5 rounds in every draft, year after year.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed.

Let's get back to having gritty teams that are life and death to make the playoffs every year.

Can't we have a gritty team that routinely does damage in the playoffs? For all the flashy names on this roster it can't even get past the high bar Randy Carlyle set.

 

[Buzzman17]

Thornton was stripped of C in San Jose after a few layoff failures. Time for the same to happen to Tavares. Leafs can’t make it seem like it was his choice either. Need to have him show up for training camp with no C on his jersey

 

[Buds17]

This loss wasn't quite as humbling as the ones against Montreal (especially) and CBJ. The accumulation of losses in general is what I find to be particularly devastating. I don't believe that the problem lies with management not being serious about winning. Rather, this mix (be it players, coaching, management, etc.) just doesn't seem to be capable of getting the job done at crunch time.

 

[seventieslord]

And don't think you're off the hook either, Mitch & Auston. You had 9 and 8 points in a 7-game series, that's great, but a lot of them came in garbage time, too. You didn't help enough when it was really needed. And even if you think they had a "good" series, the long-term results have not been good. Look at the top-20 PPG scorers in the NHL during the Matthews era, with their regular season points per game, compared to their playoff points per game:

Player	RS PPG	PO PPG	Raw Diff	%Diff
McDavid	1.47​	1.29​	0.18​	12.2​
Kucherov	1.43​	1.24​	0.19​	13.3​
Draisaitl	1.24​	1.29​	-0.05​	-4.0​
Marchand	1.2​	1.08​	0.12​	10.0​
MacKinnon	1.18​	1.38​	-0.2​	-16.9​
Crosby	1.17​	1.15​	0.02​	1.7​
Stamkos	1.16​	0.79​	0.37​	31.9​
Kane	1.15​	0.85​	0.30​	26.1​
Panarin	1.15​	0.93​	0.22​	19.1​
Malkin	1.15​	0.98​	0.17​	14.8​
Matthews	1.12​	0.85​	0.27​	24.1​
Huberdeau	1.11​	1​	0.11​	9.9​
Pastrnak	1.09​	1.06​	0.03​	2.8​
Barkov	1.07​	1.06​	0.01​	0.9​
Marner	1.07​	0.85​	0.22​	20.6​
Gaudreau	1.05​	0.64​	0.41​	39.0​
Scheifele	1.04​	1.03​	0.01​	1.0​

Look at the guys in bold.

Stamkos: Notorious for his offense drying up in the playoffs. It happened this year, too. At this moment he's the most disappointing-in-the-playoffs superstar of his generation. It's a wonder they've managed to keep him and win two cups with the cap space he takes up. (gives hope to the Leafs, I guess?)

Kane: Pretty small playoff sample here, but of course, he has a whole career before 2017 of being an absolute playoff hero, offensively, at least.

Gaudreau: A playoff dud. Does some amazing things in the regular season but the questions are getting louder about whether he's too small/soft to produce reliably in the playoffs.

And then Matthews and Marner. They are not alone; there are other players who disappoint more than they do. But they're not exactly common, either. And at least Stamkos is only taking 8.5M to stink up the joint in the playoffs.

Marner, you could say, might be too small/soft, has a tendency to look for fancy, perfect plays and doesn't have that north-south urgency to just throw it to a good place in front of the net. But what's Matthews' excuse? he CAN and DOES play the game any way you want, and there are times he just throws everything at the net. He's not small and he's not soft. He should have 7 or 8 more playoff points right now, and if he did, he'd have even more than that because the Leafs would surely have played in 3 or 4 additional series by now. Who teaches him how to get the puck in the net during tighter playoff scenarios and what do they even tell him?

 

[Mehar]

The first move is clearly firing Dubas. He inherited an incredible core from Lou, absolutely loaded with young talent and cap flexibility, and in 4 years has not made it out of the 1st round once. That’s far too much failure.

Whoever replaces Dubas needs to force JT out. I know he has an NMC, but they need to find a way to do it. It probably involves being a massive asshole to him, making it very clear he’s not wanted and we can’t succeed with him. We’re simply spending too much on 4 forwards, and JT is the oldest and most overpaid of the group by far. This has to happen.

After that I’m pretty ambivalent, just hire a good GM and let them do their thing.

I agree with this. I would shop Nylander also. I would like this organization to target Trotz as head coach. If Shanahan did not have 3 years left on his contract, I would hoped this organization would have fired him too along with Dubas. Shanahan has been here 8 years, with nothing to show for it, except for embarrassing First Round Exits.

 

[JKG33]

This management group has never been serious about winning. They fired Campbell's goalie coach because he liked mean tweets. They keep Briere on as goalie coach despite having nothing more than Jr A experience on his resume prior to Toronto. They constantly bring in these soft ass players and have shown 0 accountability when they fail time and time again.

 

[maskingagent]

Honestly I'd do it. Tavares can't lead shit, I question how much Matthews wants to win, and Marner and Nylander are charmin ultra soft.

Individually they're valuable players but together they're the core of a team that's worse than the sum of its parts

well said.

they have invested in a core built for the regular season, not the post season.

 

[hockeyes]

The first move is clearly firing Dubas. He inherited an incredible core from Lou, absolutely loaded with young talent and cap flexibility, and in 4 years has not made it out of the 1st round once. That’s far too much failure.

Whoever replaces Dubas needs to force JT out. I know he has an NMC, but they need to find a way to do it. It probably involves being a massive asshole to him, making it very clear he’s not wanted and we can’t succeed with him. We’re simply spending too much on 4 forwards, and JT is the oldest and most overpaid of the group by far. This has to happen.

After that I’m pretty ambivalent, just hire a good GM and let them do their thing.

I don't think it would take much to force JT out, just asking him so everyone can move on is probably all it would take.

 

[nsleaf]

 

[Stephen]

In isolation, the Tampa loss is a normally played, hard fought loss, but the original sin of Columbus and Montreal still looms large. There's no atoning for those no show performances without a deep playoff run, and there was never an proportionate punishment to the core to change it up, so we're stuck in the same holding pattern.

 

[seventieslord]

This was by far the best top 6 D the Leafs have had in the last 10+ years.

Going all the way back to 1994, I'd say.

Possibly 2003. Possibly. But even still, that's 19 years. And there was no cap. Dubas put together the best defense any cap-era leafs GM ever had going into the playoffs and it was not enough.

There are a lot of questions about how to move forward, but with the defense, it seems pretty obvious. Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin are the key 3, then you keep Gio at league minimum to be the Spezza of the defense. Lilly and Sandin are clearly NHL players whose performances the next couple of years seem primed to greatly exceed their salaries. There's your top 6. Holl is a #7 making 2M which is unfortunate, but either moving him for a 5th or keeping him on as a #7 are acceptable. With this defense corps, your #7 will play 60 games. You can do a lot worse than Holl in a 7 spot.

I'm assuming Boosh is gone, as someone out there liked what they saw of him (when he didn't have the puck) and will probably want him at 2-2.5M.

Mrazek. Yes he's still part of this team

I can't believe I was today years old when I found out Mrazek has a 3.8M cap hit for the next two seasons. I kinda assumed he was a 1-2 year commitment at something like 1.5M.

FML, what do we do with this guy? Can his salary at least be buried in the AHL?

 

[NastyKnies]

bye bye Dubas and Keefe

 

[Canadian Finn]

would much rather get rid of marner. when it comes to the playoffs the difference between them is marginal.

absolutely.

according to the main boards Marner is the best player on the team. Maybe we can fleece another GM into believing that. Oh wait, Dubas......

Ok, nevermind.

 

[rocketman588]

You sound like you need a life and identity outside of hockey. I hope you find them.

You sound like you need a life outside of gargling Kyle Dubas's balls.

Are you going to get North Bay battalion season tickets next year when that's the only job him and Keefe can land next year?