How many jobs are on the line?

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It all comes down to the players being mental midgets and having serious mental breakdowns. I'm looking at you Kerfoot.

They lack the killer instinct and I don't know how you fix that.
Get players who aren't soft and scared. Get players who stick up for each other.

Look at the Tampa team. Point/Cirelli/Kucherov/Stamkos/Paul/Hagel/Palat. Every player doing the dirty work along with the skill.

This team is softttttttt
 
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Why not? He wants to be here. I wouldn’t be shocked to see him get Simmonds/spezza deals here on out. Hes 38. You can give modest bumps to the young D in bridge deals and bring gio & boosh back to make your top 6 rielly Brodie gio lilly sandin boosh

Because we currently have less then 10 mill of cap space without a goalie/ our entire third line and 3 defensemen
 
No point getting rid of Dubas. He's an excellent GM. He actually learns from his mistakes and doesn't remain static. So it is like we get a new GM next year if you think about it.

Actions will speak though. Depth is too soft and Trotz is there for the taking. Get to work.

Nick Paul makes less than Mikheyev. Cap is not a hurdle to fix soft depth issue.
I think you will see the Leafs with a heavier bottom 6 next year. Hopefully more Nick Pauls and less Cliffords.
 
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No point getting rid of Dubas. He's an excellent GM. He actually learns from his mistakes and doesn't remain static. So it is like we get a new GM next year if you think about it.

Actions will speak though. Depth is too soft and Trotz is there for the taking. Get to work.

Nick Paul makes less than Mikheyev. Cap is not a hurdle to fix soft depth issue.
So is Dubas going to change and stop believing in this team
 
This team was better than previous years. They legit got screwed in game 6 but could have still won game 7.

Unfortunately for them they have used up all of their chances. Especially after the Montreal series. Advance last year and you're forgiven this year.

My best guess: I think Dubas gets one more chance with a new coach. Keefe will be the scapegoat, and to be fair he's a poor playoff coach so he deserves it. Shanny will put Dubas on the hot seat and will get another chance with a new gm if things don't work out next year for Dubas.

I'm guessing Kerfoot and Nylander both go. They'll need to give up some assets to redo the bottom 6. Resign Gio for cheap, and give Lil a permanent spot. They'll find a couple forwards that better fit with an aging Tavares.

Honestly, I'd prefer they move on from both Dubas and Keefe but I think they give Dubas another shot. Let's see if Dubas learns from his mistake and gets a better playoff coach.
 
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How does Nick Paul beast us (our D made it easy for him but can't deny his effort level) but mik and engvall continue to do nothing.

And how did Keefe fall for their little run with the goalie pulled in game 3, costing us game 4 by losing the first period?

If Dubas continues to think mik engvall holl are playoff depth my loyalty ends in 22/23.


Goes without saying I want Trotz in for Keefe. Tampa had the lead and shortened their bench. We're still rolling 4 lines until 6 minutes left down 2-1

Put me on the fire Dubas bandwagon...

How does Nick Paul beat us? The same way he consistently did very well against us with the Sens. He's a big body, works his ### off every shift, and has some semblance of skill. If the Leafs were going to be serious about contending at the deadline, they needed to do more than Colin Blackwell upfront.

This loss doesn't fall on the shoulders of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Campbell or Rielly. It probably doesn't even fall on the shoulders of Tavares, or anyone on their D. This was by far the best top 6 D the Leafs have had in the last 10+ years.

This loss, falls on the lack of depth up front, and specifically the number of players who contributed basically nothing during the time the games were close. Mikheyev had 2 goals in this series, but both empty netters. Engvall played 105 minutes in this series, and I believe his greatest contributions were a couple of assists on Mikheyev's empty netters. Kerfoot also played over 105 minutes in this series, had several glaring gaffes that resulted in pucks in our net. His greatest contribution was a shorty that made a blowout loss slightly interesting. Even Bunting was an obvious passenger for most of the series. I do not recall Kase doing anything of any significance during this series; and Spezza & Blackwell didn't play enough to matter; although I do like what Blackwell did bring in his limited action.

Ultimately, I think the Leafs need to get away from the analytics-approach they've relied on for the past however many years. I don't care that Engvall & Mikheyev are analytics-darlings throughout the regular season. These guys do not have the x-factor to contribute either offensively, or in a true shutdown capacity in the playoffs.

The conversations regarding the big 4 will of course dominate the offseason chatter.... but I think it may be worthwhile to also look at the $8.5m the Leafs spent on Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Kase, Engvall, and Simmonds; and for the Leafs to ask themselves, what did they actually get out of this group? Certainly toss Mrazek into that group as well.

That's the thing with the playoffs -- in a do-or-die situation, you're going to run into a hot goalie, and/or a team is going to just start collapsing, blocking shots, and nullify your superstar power. You need guys on the 3rd line that can jump on a single mistake, and make the other team pay. Kampf did it a couple of times early in the season. Even though he didn't do it later on, as the 3rd line C, I think he gets a pass because of how reliable he was, but the wingers have to be able to do something.
 
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So, you would like the Leafs to trade Matthews, Nylander, Marner & Tavares? I'm telling you Dubas is not the issue, its our core players. Why are we pretending that we would have a different core set of players with Dubas not here? Dubas doesn't strap on skates and mail it in out there.

Why does thinking dubas needs to be fired mean I want one of the 4 traded?

I doubt many people could inherit the team dubas has and have zero playoff series wins after 4 years.

I'll ask again, how many first round losses before you accept that dubas needs to go? Will 5 do it?
 
Can we really blame Dubas for this year's first round loss? Leafs played great in Game 1, 3 and especially 5. Game 6 they showed heart in making another comeback to take the game into OT and had several amazing chances to win where they were centimeters off from putting the puck in the net.

Game 7 Paul got two opportunistic goals and the Leafs played their hearts out trying to tie. Unlike last year at the end of the Habs series where I was left with complete disappointment in their effort and their lack of fight in game 7, this year they gave it their all in game 6 and it almost paid off and they came back again in game 7 and gave it their all and came up just abit short where they didn't capitalize on a number of good scoring chances.

Sure changes need and will be made because of cap and other reasons and maybe even one of the big 4 gets traded, but even though I'm sad that its another 1st round and out for the Leafs, it feels different than last year and I don't know why Dubas is to blame for putting together a really good team that came so close to getting to the 2nd round, but for a few 50/50 crapshoot plays and ref calls they weren't able to win. The Leafs weren't outclassed playing against the back to back Stanley Cup champs, they just had a little less puck luck than the Bolts did the past couple of games.

Yes I would blame dubas.

Let me simplify it

- You expect your 50% of the cap forwards to show up offensively in a deciding game. They didnt!

- That means you need quality depth to pot goals since core cannot get it done.

- Quality depth is expensive and there is no cap space left for quality depth.

SO....

- this cycle will repeat unless 50% of the cap learns to show up in deciding games
OR
- leafs get quality depth (but they can't! no cap space).


There are many other reasons. But I will leave it at that for now.

Last thoughts: No other team in the league has 3 players on the books that make 11 AAV each and has playoff success.
 
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Dubas is not the issue. Logically, he built a good team. There's no denying it.

It's all on the players.

Some guys don't have it mentally and this core is full of those guys. They all play below their abilities in knockout games.

I would remove Nylander and honestly Rielly too if it wasn't for his extension. Just cause a team is good on paper or regular season doesn't mean they are actually good when it matters.

If the players fail, isn't the person responsible for having them on the team at fault?

The lack of logic in the excuses for dubas are getting worse and worse each year.
 
**** off. We won this series against the back to back champs and it got stripped away from us by the zebras. Dubas has put together a fantastic team
Seriously???

This is hilarious
 
Why does thinking dubas needs to be fired mean I want one of the 4 traded?

I doubt many people could inherit the team dubas has and have zero playoff series wins after 4 years.

I'll ask again, how many first round losses before you accept that dubas needs to go? Will 5 do it?
I'll ask again, what will firing Dubas do if you don't have one of the four players traded? There is only so much minor tweaking you can do.
 
Can't wait to see them trade away our good players for plugs and see our guys win cups for other teams.
Better for them to win cups on other teams rather then to continue to choke here

Moreover they shouldn’t be traded for plugs, but for valuable pieces to build a better team
 
No point getting rid of Dubas. He's an excellent GM. He actually learns from his mistakes and doesn't remain static. So it is like we get a new GM next year if you think about it.

Actions will speak though. Depth is too soft and Trotz is there for the taking. Get to work.

Nick Paul makes less than Mikheyev. Cap is not a hurdle to fix soft depth issue.
Great trades, like Kadri for Barrie, 1st for frickin Foligno. Great GM for sure.
 
The point is to win it all not win just a round, it isn't an iterative process where you win one round and then two and then maybe the whole thing. Sometimes you get many chances with the same core, sometimes you get one (like the Habs last year and their fluke run).

Dubas bet on having star depth and multiple kicks at the can, and he's gotten that out of them, and you saw in the third period on that PP - your best five players are pretty damn good. My gut reaction is that one of them has to be moved (very likely Nylander) but the team itself is (1) a playoff team and (2) actually has two very talented lines. Campbell and the defence are both good enough to win a series or two. I mean you know this is true. So what can Dubas do? Bad luck + bad voodoo.

Anyway, I won't clog up this thread you guys gotta work it out. Cheers.

"Bad luck + bad voodoo"? Lmao

How many first round loses before its dubas' fault? Remember, he's at 4.
 

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