How Many Games Will Jordan Weal Play?

[HYORI 1963]

Why do people think a NHL team is going to showcase any player at the NHL level? They are trying to win games, not build trade value. This isn't a team like Buffalo near the trade deadline, this is the Kings at the start of the season. If Weal plays, its to help the team not to try and get a draft pick.

Not necessarily.

Weal may play for various reasons, of which one may be to up his trade value.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Why do people think a NHL team is going to showcase any player at the NHL level? They are trying to win games, not build trade value. This isn't a team like Buffalo near the trade deadline, this is the Kings at the start of the season. If Weal plays, its to help the team not to try and get a draft pick.

if by people you mean me I can give you why i do. Prospects needs to show that they can do something before any team will want them The kings while yes can still play game to win and showcase a player like weal With a awful pp like our what would it hurt to let him play on it. Also put him on in offensive zone faceoffs Putting him in sheltered mins. I feel if we don't like we have been we have been letting alot of our prospect go for next to nothing. If we get prospect a cup of coffee they have more value and maybe people will take two of them instead of a picks all the time for players we need. I will from now on call it proper management of assets in future posts

 

[Buddy The Elf]

if by people you mean me I can give you why i do. Prospects needs to show that they can do something before any team will want them The kings while yes can still play game to win and showcase a player like weal With a awful pp like our what would it hurt to let him play on it. Also put him on in offensive zone faceoffs Putting him in sheltered mins. I feel if we don't like we have been we have been letting alot of our prospect go for next to nothing. If we get prospect a cup of coffee they have more value and maybe people will take two of them instead of a picks all the time for players we need. I will from now on call it proper management of assets in future posts

The problem is Weal was given a cup of coffee and he choked on it. I honestly don't understand why anyone can argue with the decision to keep him out of the line up when he made a pretty big mistake in his first game. Lets stop with the idea that there is some conspiracy theory with Sutter or management with prospects. It's been mentioned countless times that Sutter has relied on rookies on multiple occasions in his 3 plus seasons here. Toffoli, Pearson, King, Nolan and McNabb to name a few. I don't even know why Sutter's track record would be questioned when you look at how all of those players have worked out.

Weal will get back into games but when you screw up big time in your first opportunity, it's going to take you a while to get back in. That's the way it should be. The idea that we should look past his mistake(s) and "showcase" him to increase his value for a trade is absurd. In fact, if he continued to make those mistakes, he'll further deteriorate what little value he has.

 

[damacles1156]

With Video and scouting reports, any NHL team has all the info and tape they would need on Weal anyway.

Weal would look different in another NHL teams system anyhow. There is no such thing as showcasing prospects at the NHL level to trade them.

The idea is absurd.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

The problem is Weal was given a cup of coffee and he choked on it. I honestly don't understand why anyone can argue with the decision to keep him out of the line up when he made a pretty big mistake in his first game. Lets stop with the idea that there is some conspiracy theory with Sutter or management with prospects. It's been mentioned countless times that Sutter has relied on rookies on multiple occasions in his 3 plus seasons here. Toffoli, Pearson, King, Nolan and McNabb to name a few. I don't even know why Sutter's track record would be questioned when you look at how all of those players have worked out.

Weal will get back into games but when you screw up big time in your first opportunity, it's going to take you a while to get back in. That's the way it should be. The idea that we should look past his mistake(s) and "showcase" him to increase his value for a trade is absurd. In fact, if he continued to make those mistakes, he'll further deteriorate what little value he has.

one game is not cup of coffee despite your saying it is. Show me one post where i said it was some sorta conspiracy More off topic confusion crap. bs hes relied on rookies he doesnt give them time till they earn it. Toffoli is in his 4th season on the team and hes just getting the time on pp Sutter has move his ice time up every year Pearson isnt being relied on at all in fact most of last season he was playing less mins then King King wasnt a rookie when he finally got the mins I could continue with the rest but its all the same You earn you mins there not handed to you. I am using his track record to prove it look at ice time thats all i need to say In your first year you dont get as much ice time despite how good you are.

I for one have been saying and will say till im proving wrong is if your not playing Weal more then 12 mins a game Hes not going to work and may as well be traded while he has value.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

With Video and scouting reports, any NHL team has all the info and tape they would need on Weal anyway.

Weal would look different in another NHL teams system anyhow. There is no such thing as showcasing prospects at the NHL level to trade them.

The idea is absurd.

yeah ok then why do teams send scouts to other teams games before trade are made ?

 

[damacles1156]

yeah ok then why do teams send scouts to other teams games before trade are made ?

There are lots of reasons scouts are at games.

But the premise of, we are going to take a borderline NHL player, and play him at the NHL level to (showcase) him for a trade. Is absurd.

No successful NHL team does that.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

There are lots of reasons scouts are at games.

But the premise of, we are going to take a borderline NHL player, and play him at the NHL level to (showcase) him for a trade. Is absurd.

No successful NHL team does that.

Damacles its done all the time your thinking its absurd is exactly that absurd Its done all the time players are given ice time to show what they can do. Prospects mostly to see what they can do in a faster game then the nhl Again you seem to be jumping on me harder then you do others again i ask you to email me with the issue you have with me so we can straighten it out in private Until then please feel free to ignore my posts as i obviously pushed some sorta button with you

 

[damacles1156]

The problem is Weal was given a cup of coffee and he choked on it. I honestly don't understand why anyone can argue with the decision to keep him out of the line up when he made a pretty big mistake in his first game. Lets stop with the idea that there is some conspiracy theory with Sutter or management with prospects. It's been mentioned countless times that Sutter has relied on rookies on multiple occasions in his 3 plus seasons here. Toffoli, Pearson, King, Nolan and McNabb to name a few. I don't even know why Sutter's track record would be questioned when you look at how all of those players have worked out.

Weal will get back into games but when you screw up big time in your first opportunity, it's going to take you a while to get back in. That's the way it should be. The idea that we should look past his mistake(s) and "showcase" him to increase his value for a trade is absurd. In fact, if he continued to make those mistakes, he'll further deteriorate what little value he has.

I agree.

Sutter has a method to his madness. Jordan Weal is not physically suited to play in a bottom Six Center role. The Kings system really hinges on Strong Center play at all 200ft. Weal's size, is going to effect him in this area.

Weal has a lot of work to do, if he want's to be a regular. Andy, may not be the best option, or that great, but his size and decent two-way play will keep him above Weal. Sadly if Weal was 6'1" 200LBS, he would have a better chance. But then again he would have went higher in the draft as well probably, and not be a King prospect.

It is, what it is.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

one game is not cup of coffee despite your saying it is. Show me one post where i said it was some sorta conspiracy More off topic confusion crap. bs hes relied on rookies he doesnt give them time till they earn it. Toffoli is in his 4th season on the team and hes just getting the time on pp Sutter has move his ice time up every year Pearson isnt being relied on at all in fact most of last season he was playing less mins then King King wasnt a rookie when he finally got the mins I could continue with the rest but its all the same You earn you mins there not handed to you. I am using his track record to prove it look at ice time thats all i need to say In your first year you dont get as much ice time despite how good you are.

I for one have been saying and will say till im proving wrong is if your not playing Weal more then 12 mins a game Hes not going to work and may as well be traded while he has value.

Ok so you make the case that the other rookies under Sutter earned their ice time but for some reason Weal needs to be handed ice time so he can showcase his skill to a potential trade suitor?

You are also contradicting yourself a bit saying Pearson had to earn his ice time and was given limited minutes. I won't disagree with that. Yet, Pearson ended up playing on the second line and produced with limited ice time before getting hurt. Then you apologize for Weal saying he needs to be gifted the time even though when given a chance in one game, he made a pretty critical mistake. That isn't how this team operates nor most other teams. The Oilers stick a bunch of rookies on the ice and don't hold them accountable. How has that worked for them?

Again, criticize Sutter all you want but most of those rookies I've mentioned before have carved out (or are carving out) decent NHL careers under his watch and earning minutes of playing time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Damacles its done all the time your thinking its absurd is exactly that absurd Its done all the time players are given ice time to show what they can do. Prospects mostly to see what they can do in a faster game then the nhl Again you seem to be jumping on me harder then you do others again i ask you to email me with the issue you have with me so we can straighten it out in private Until then please feel free to ignore my posts as i obviously pushed some sorta button with you

If this is done all the time, it should be easy to prove:

find a short list of players whose ice team was increased drastically in the games leading up to a trade. Or, even entered the lineup a game or two prior to a trade.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Ok so you make the case that the other rookies under Sutter earned their ice time but for some reason Weal needs to be handed ice time so he can showcase his skill to a potential trade suitor?

You are also contradicting yourself a bit saying Pearson had to earn his ice time and was given limited minutes. I won't disagree with that. Yet, Pearson ended up playing on the second line and produced with limited ice time before getting hurt. Then you apologize for Weal saying he needs to be gifted the time even though when given a chance in one game, he made a pretty critical mistake. That isn't how this team operates nor most other teams. The Oilers stick a bunch of rookies on the ice and don't hold them accountable. How has that worked for them?

Again, criticize Sutter all you want but most of those rookies I've mentioned before have carved out (or are carving out) decent NHL careers under his watch and earning minutes of playing time.

As far as im concerned Weal needs to be traded not played in a bottom six role. Where am im saying he should play any more then a handful of games and traded for whatever you can get. You trying to twist my words If you have been reading my posts i am for trading him not playing him. However in order to trade him you need to let a team seem him play a game or two a true cup of coffee is 5 games idealy against different systems

Now your talking Pearson go back look at how many mins he was getting with carter and toffoli and then go look at Kings mins You will see king was getting more mins Pearson was playing the softer mins. To me when King is getting more mins then Pearson there is only one explanation he isn't trusted yet with top mins. Funny hes not again this year and probably why brown took the top line with Kopitar not pearson.

One game is not a cup of coffee again he needs 4 or 5 ideally against different type of clubs. That oiler line is crap we have the experience to shield a rookie or two We ve been doing it every year since we won a cup

I agree totaly that they are and they earn there mins exactly what i ve been saying all along

 

[KingCanadain1976]

If this is done all the time, it should be easy to prove:

find a short list of players whose ice team was increased drastically in the games leading up to a trade. Or, even entered the lineup a game or two prior to a trade.

Jeff O'neil played preseason game with kopitar. to start off the top of my head Teams scout players at trade deadline all the time remember the leaf scouts in the ahl to scout both weal and richards. Ask cns if scouts are there to see certain players for trades. JUst because they don't make the deals don't mean they dont send scouts to see certain players

 

[cali101]

^ maybe you mean brian o'neill?

vey might have been one of those players? they brought him up and he played a number of games, but it didnt seem like they really had a spot for him. not sure it a "showcase" is why they brought him up though. hard to say. i can't remember the circumstances at that time.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

^ maybe you mean brian o'neill?

vey might have been one of those players? they brought him up and he played a number of games, but it didnt seem like they really had a spot for him. not sure it a "showcase" is why they brought him up though. hard to say. i can't remember the circumstances at that time.

yes him thats just off the top of my head No way did we even consider him for a spot with all we all the roster players already. We show cased him to trade him Not the best example but the fastest one off the top of my head. All i was asked to prove is show some one that got inserted in a lineup that got traded soon after and he did

 

[kingsfan]

Not necessarily.

Weal may play for various reasons, of which one may be to up his trade value.

Ok, let me rephrase for the technically impaired: He won't play SOLELY to increase his trade value.

if by people you mean me I can give you why i do. Prospects needs to show that they can do something before any team will want them The kings while yes can still play game to win and showcase a player like weal With a awful pp like our what would it hurt to let him play on it. Also put him on in offensive zone faceoffs Putting him in sheltered mins. I feel if we don't like we have been we have been letting alot of our prospect go for next to nothing. If we get prospect a cup of coffee they have more value and maybe people will take two of them instead of a picks all the time for players we need. I will from now on call it proper management of assets in future posts

In other words use him to improve the team. He'll play for those reasons you stated, not to increase his trade value.

Jeff O'neil played preseason game with kopitar. to start off the top of my head Teams scout players at trade deadline all the time remember the leaf scouts in the ahl to scout both weal and richards. Ask cns if scouts are there to see certain players for trades. JUst because they don't make the deals don't mean they dont send scouts to see certain players

So your example is a guy who played in a pre-season game that really have no impact if you lose?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well if you're going to consider giving someone preseason games a 'showcase,' then yes, by all means, every team showcases 5-10 players a year.

Scouts go to games to watch people, sure. But the 'showcasing' thing has always been crazy to me because though there is a way to 'prove' it, I have not seen literally one example. Guys play because they're good enough to play; if a scout/GM were to ask another GM to give a guy more minutes so they could see more of him, wouldn't that be easy to find? Or a guy getting put into a lineup prior to a trade?

If you need to play a guy more to up his trade value in the era with ubiquitous access to media, you're getting played. With respect to Weal, GMs know who he is, sitting him on the bench all year isn't good but I would imagine more GMs would actually call if he were benched to try to pluck him.

 

[kingsfan]

Well if you're going to consider giving someone preseason games a 'showcase,' then yes, by all means, every team showcases 5-10 players a year.

Scouts go to games to watch people, sure. But the 'showcasing' thing has always been crazy to me because though there is a way to 'prove' it, I have not seen literally one example. Guys play because they're good enough to play; if a scout/GM were to ask another GM to give a guy more minutes so they could see more of him, wouldn't that be easy to find? Or a guy getting put into a lineup prior to a trade?

If you need to play a guy more to up his trade value in the era with ubiquitous access to media, you're getting played.

We've seen it, but it happens on teams that are out of the playoffs and sellers at the trade deadline. Buffalo showcased some guys ahead of the deadline last year because they knew they were going to trade them. That's a huge difference though between that and the Kings, who are certainly in the playoff hunt and have eyes on another cup run. They aren't going to risk a kid costing them a win just so they can maybe up his trade value from a 5th to a 4th.

 

[HYORI 1963]

We've seen it, but it happens on teams that are out of the playoffs and sellers at the trade deadline. Buffalo showcased some guys ahead of the deadline last year because they knew they were going to trade them. That's a huge difference though between that and the Kings, who are certainly in the playoff hunt and have eyes on another cup run. They aren't going to risk a kid costing them a win just so they can maybe up his trade value from a 5th to a 4th.

Now you're just making stuff up.

 

[HYORI 1963]

For those who claim that Weal HAD his chance, I STRONGLY disagree. Everyone focuses on that one play where he coughed up the puck in his zone, and totally disregard the good plays he made previously. If Weal had been 6'2 and 210 lbs, no one would make such a fuss over it, but because he's only 5'10 180, everyone chimes in with how inadequate he is in his own zone.

A "cup of coffee"??? More like a sip.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Ok, let me rephrase for the technically impaired: He won't play SOLELY to increase his trade value.



In other words use him to improve the team. He'll play for those reasons you stated, not to increase his trade value.




So your example is a guy who played in a pre-season game that really have no impact if you lose?

No it would be done try and show he could do with that opportunity since if he does anything good then it raises his trade value. If he doesn't it not like we would be better off without playing him not there. At power play sucks anyway if we can use him to raise his value then why not. All that is needed would be a couple of good plays with the puck would help his value. This would be playing to his strength. Again if your not going to play him 12 mins or more don't play him at all to me its wasting his abilities.

I was asked to find someone that got inserted in a game or increased his ice time i did no where was i told he had to be in a reg season game. I did as i was asked to do

 

[Ron*]

For those who claim that Weal HAD his chance, I STRONGLY disagree. Everyone focuses on that one play where he coughed up the puck in his zone, and totally disregard the good plays he made previously. If Weal had been 6'2 and 210 lbs, no one would make such a fuss over it, but because he's only 5'10 180, everyone chimes in with how inadequate he is in his own zone.

A "cup of coffee"??? More like a sip.

He's had his chance. He's done.

Next.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Well if you're going to consider giving someone preseason games a 'showcase,' then yes, by all means, every team showcases 5-10 players a year.

Scouts go to games to watch people, sure. But the 'showcasing' thing has always been crazy to me because though there is a way to 'prove' it, I have not seen literally one example. Guys play because they're good enough to play; if a scout/GM were to ask another GM to give a guy more minutes so they could see more of him, wouldn't that be easy to find? Or a guy getting put into a lineup prior to a trade?

If you need to play a guy more to up his trade value in the era with ubiquitous access to media, you're getting played. With respect to Weal, GMs know who he is, sitting him on the bench all year isn't good but I would imagine more GMs would actually call if he were benched to try to pluck him.

Call it show case call it watching what he can do in certain situations how ever you want to call it im saying players get played in games for scouts to report back to gm on how they would fit or are doing.

As far as finding it ever think that people just do see it and not make the trade. There are more trades talked about then made therefore less evidences as you want it do be. In order to find this information out i would need to know what scouts are at the games pior to the trade this is the information i don't have access to in order to make you your proof i would need this.

I disagree with you however the proof your looking for is impossible for me to find as i have no contracts or links to go look at to prove scouts were at games So i guess we will agree to disagree. Also again most of theses type of convos would be private between clubs so yeah like that is going to be public but you can pooh pooh all you like I read it all the time from tsn insider that a scout is at such and such game scouting player a and b No team is going to let it know thats why so and so is in the lineup or playing with someone else because if the trade fails and 90 & of trade talks end up that way it would lead to chaos

 

[KingCanadain1976]

For those who claim that Weal HAD his chance, I STRONGLY disagree. Everyone focuses on that one play where he coughed up the puck in his zone, and totally disregard the good plays he made previously. If Weal had been 6'2 and 210 lbs, no one would make such a fuss over it, but because he's only 5'10 180, everyone chimes in with how inadequate he is in his own zone.

A "cup of coffee"??? More like a sip.

For once i can agree with your post for the most part. I think hes more like 5"8 3/4 167 lbs the 5 10 180 However the sip comment is bang on.

 

[HYORI 1963]

For once i can agree with your post for the most part. I think hes more like 5"8 3/4 167 lbs the 5 10 180 However the sip comment is bang on.

Nope, he's 5'10 180 lbs.