How does the D Corps get fixed?

[Nanabijou]

Yeesh. We don't want Seidenberg or Schenn. I doubt those guys have much future in the game.

So far, at least, Bodnarchuk-Falk has made a fine third pairing, and Connauton is playing great. We have the same problem we've always had with our D: no one far above that middling level.

Agreed. I don't really see the point in wasting any assets on a stop-gap middle or bottom pairing defenseman this year. I'm fine with Bodnarchuk and Falk rolling until Cody is back. We need a top pairing D, but that is either going to really hurt (as in Joey going) or it is not going to happen.

 

[EspenK]

I'm not trying to sound like a sarcastic little **** or anything but what would you do? Everyone wants to go get a potential #1D, but I think the only way those talks are realistic if someone like Johansen or top notch young player and a 1st are going the other way. And we can't trade futures for a #1 because we don't have the cap space.

I'm guessing bring back the brain trust that brought in Nikitin and signed Tyutin to a 6 year deal and drafted John Moore (with a #1 pick) and Dalton Prout?

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I'm guessing bring back the brain trust that brought in Nikitin and signed Tyutin to a 6 year deal and drafted John Moore (with a #1 pick) and Dalton Prout?

Nah...I'm against that.


I just think we're on CBJ bad management 3.0. This group thinks the answer is to stock up on forwards. I hope rev 4.0 begins to approach competent.

 

[major major]

I'm guessing bring back the brain trust that brought in Nikitin and signed Tyutin to a 6 year deal and drafted John Moore (with a #1 pick) and Dalton Prout?

Let's see here. Nikitin only cost a stagnating Kris Russell, and then did more in one year in Columbus than Russell ever did. Tyutin was great value for Zherdev. I'd love it if Jarmo could pull a deal like that. Tyutin's contract is too long now no doubt. John Moore isn't very good, but he's provided more value than a lot of the players drafted around him. Perhaps you need to be reminded that a late #1 is not a guarantee of much. And Dalton Prout has been terrible, but he played well one year and that already makes him more valuable than all but 2 or 3 players from his draft round.

 

[EspenK]

Let's see here. Nikitin only cost a stagnating Kris Russell, and then did more in one year in Columbus than Russell ever did. Tyutin was great value for Zherdev. I'd love it if Jarmo could pull a deal like that. Tyutin's contract is too long now no doubt. John Moore isn't very good, but he's provided more value than a lot of the players drafted around him. Perhaps you need to be reminded that a late #1 is not a guarantee of much. And Dalton Prout has been terrible, but he played well one year and that already makes him more valuable than all but 2 or 3 players from his draft round.

Nah...I'm against that.


I just think we're on CBJ bad management 3.0. This group thinks the answer is to stock up on forwards. I hope rev 4.0 begins to approach competent.

I'm guessing bring back the brain trust that brought in Nikitin and signed Tyutin to a 6 year deal and drafted John Moore (with a #1 pick) and Dalton Prout?

Do you guys have no sense of humor? I was just tweaking the Mayor who I think was pining for the prior regime. I guess I should have put the in just to be 100% clear.

I do however agree that we are overstocked and "over contracted" at F. But at least we drafted D heavily last year and probably should weight towards it this coming draft as well.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Let's see here. Nikitin only cost a stagnating Kris Russell, and then did more in one year in Columbus than Russell ever did. Tyutin was great value for Zherdev. I'd love it if Jarmo could pull a deal like that. Tyutin's contract is too long now no doubt. John Moore isn't very good, but he's provided more value than a lot of the players drafted around him. Perhaps you need to be reminded that a late #1 is not a guarantee of much. And Dalton Prout has been terrible, but he played well one year and that already makes him more valuable than all but 2 or 3 players from his draft round.

Nah- It's not like Columbus could have kept the 16th pick and drafted Nick Leddy or kept the 26th pick acquired in the deal that gave up the 16th and drafted Simon Despres.

Note- it's also a bit unfair to cherry pick the good picks. Plenty of teams didn't grab Leddy, Johansson, Kreider, or Despres when given the chance. In fact with all of these guys available, JD/JK picked David Rundblad

Do you guys have no sense of humor? I was just tweaking the Mayor who I think was pining for the prior regime. I guess I should have put the in just to be 100% clear.

I do however agree that we are overstocked and "over contracted" at F. But at least we drafted D heavily last year and probably should weight towards it this coming draft as well.

I was aware of your sarcasm and who it was directed to. I was being sarcastic as well.

 

[EspenK]

Nah- It's not like Columbus could have kept the 16th pick and drafted Nick Leddy or kept the 26th pick acquired in the deal that gave up the 16th and drafted Simon Despres.

Note- it's also a bit unfair to cherry pick the good picks. Plenty of teams didn't grab Leddy, Johansson, Kreider, or Despres when given the chance. In fact with all of these guys available, JD/JK picked David Rundblad




I was aware of your sarcasm and who it was directed to. I was being sarcastic as well.

I guess we both need to put the gizmo on.

 

[major major]

Do you guys have no sense of humor?

I knew you were kidding. I've learned your sense of humor over the years. And you should know me well enough by now to know that a "" isn't going to stop me from making overly earnest defenses of the Howson regime.

 

[EspenK]

I knew you were kidding. I've learned your sense of humor over the years. And you should know me well enough by now to know that a "" isn't going to stop me from making overly earnest defenses of the Howson regime.

You're in select company. And yes I guess I should have known your style too.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Do you guys have no sense of humor? I was just tweaking the Mayor who I think was pining for the prior regime. I guess I should have put the in just to be 100% clear.

Why, what did I do?

 

[major major]

I think Torts should consider doing what Babcock has done in Toronto. Babcock took his old #1d in Phaneuf and put him in a bit more sheltered role on the second pair. Now he's having his best season as a Leaf. I wonder if JJ would benefit from that, and if Murray would be better suited for the harder minutes.

 

[CBJx614]

I think Torts should consider doing what Babcock has done in Toronto. Babcock took his old #1d in Phaneuf and put him in a bit more sheltered role on the second pair. Now he's having his best season as a Leaf. I wonder if JJ would benefit from that, and if Murray would be better suited for the harder minutes.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Ive thought Jack and Savard have done a good job eating minutes. While I think Murray does need some more TOI, taking it from either of them would be a mistake IMO.

Let him be a little sheltered this year and then next year when/if Werenski makes the team give Murray a bump in TOI. Let him get another full season under his belt before adding anymore responsibilities unless you absolutely have to.

 

[major major]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Ive thought Jack and Savard have done a good job eating minutes. While I think Murray does need some more TOI, taking it from either of them would be a mistake IMO.

Let him be a little sheltered this year and then next year when/if Werenski makes the team give Murray a bump in TOI. Let him get another full season under his belt before adding anymore responsibilities unless you absolutely have to.

You might be right about the Murray part, but I think we need to hold our top pair to a higher standard. Jack's production at 5 on 5 is terrible and always has been. You'd think with his tools he could do better. He does well in 4 on 4, 3 on 3, 5 on 4, but not 5 on 5. I want Torts to get that out of him 5 on 5, and a role change should be part of that.

And consider that the best top pair might not be who you'd expect. Babcock is rolling with Hunwick-Reilly with Phaneuf on the second pair, and that's been an improvement for them.

 

[CBJx614]

You might be right about the Murray part, but I think we need to hold our top pair to a higher standard. Jack's production at 5 on 5 is terrible and always has been. You'd think with his tools he could do better. He does well in 4 on 4, 3 on 3, 5 on 4, but not 5 on 5. I want Torts to get that out of him 5 on 5, and a role change should be part of that.

And consider that the best top pair might not be who you'd expect. Babcock is rolling with Hunwick-Reilly with Phaneuf on the second pair, and that's been an improvement for them.

I'm not saying Johnson is a #1D, but he and Savard are the only ones Torts trusts with big minutes.


And how is Toronto doing with them as their top pair? I know they're rebuilding and they're really young. But what Torts is doing now has (mostly) worked defensively anyway.


Although I am curious to see how Murray's offensive numbers would do if he had another 3-5 minutes a game.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Odds are the d-corps are not fixed via free agency. Those guys are few and far between and quite honestly with MAX contracts why would a top pairing d-man come to Columbus with as bad as we're playing where there are other teams with as much cap space and the ability to win.

That being said it has to be an investment by the team in the draft. Yes it's always sexy drafting forwards - they are much more likely to be able to play immediately. But you have to invest in the draft and just hope some the guys you have can play well enough.

 

[Viqsi]

Odds are the d-corps are not fixed via free agency. Those guys are few and far between and quite honestly with MAX contracts why would a top pairing d-man come to Columbus with as bad as we're playing where there are other teams with as much cap space and the ability to win.

That being said it has to be an investment by the team in the draft. Yes it's always sexy drafting forwards - they are much more likely to be able to play immediately. But you have to invest in the draft and just hope some the guys you have can play well enough.

I think this is my cue to bring up Murray's continued development and our recent acquisition of Werenski.

That's good for a long-term fix, to be sure, but I think the idea here is to find a short-term stabilizer. Which is still a useful and worthy search.

 

[major major]

Odds are the d-corps are not fixed via free agency. Those guys are few and far between and quite honestly with MAX contracts why would a top pairing d-man come to Columbus with as bad as we're playing where there are other teams with as much cap space and the ability to win.

That being said it has to be an investment by the team in the draft. Yes it's always sexy drafting forwards - they are much more likely to be able to play immediately. But you have to invest in the draft and just hope some the guys you have can play well enough.

Operative words. Drafting D is probably our best strategy, but unless it's Ekblad you don't really know if it'll work until 5 or so years later. And the draft position of D doesn't correlate as strongly with what kind of player they become, so going for guys at the #8 spot, like Werenski, doesn't guarantee much. Could be Ryan Suter, could be Smid/Valabik/(insert countless other mediocre D drafted around that spot).

I think this is my cue to bring up Murray's continued development and our recent acquisition of Werenski.

That's good for a long-term fix, to be sure, but I think the idea here is to find a short-term stabilizer. Which is still a useful and worthy search.

No, it might or might not work. The idea behind acquiring a top pair D isn't just about short-termism. It's about hedging that draft bet, and eliminating the risk. There is a risk that we won't end up with a top pair D, no matter how many D we draft.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I just honestly don't think you can find a legit top pairing guy via free agency.

Maybe find a salary dump for a trade but you have to give up young assets.

Again I'm just saying I don't think you can count on fixing our lack of a #1 d-man quickly. It will take time. So maybe you can get an over the hill type of guy (Foote for example in past) or a talented guy on a good team that you think can step up (Sydor) but I just don't see us acquiring a legit top pairing guy. You've got to fix the D by waiting on draft picks and playing better team defense (including forwards).

So if you want to fix the D in 2015-16 - better make all the players play D. Maybe by 2017-18 you could have a legit #1 guy groomed but before then the way to fix it is everyone does better in the defensive zone.

 

[Xoggz22]

We shouldn't even be discussing free agents unless the team plans to gut salary. Work would need to be done to fit in a top 4, let alone top 2 guy via free agency. Development and a smart trade would do wonders. One of those trades is likely to move Tyutin or JJ if possible. They are the two with reasonable contracts (length left and $). Tyutin is long in the tooth it would appear whereas JJ has looked good, in my opinion, this year.

I'm guessing Werenski leaves Michigan after this year and can't imagine Prout, Bodnarchuck or Falk being re-signed. That opens a bottom pair spot if he earns it. Goloubef has looked good and could be a cheap extension for the 4-6 spot. Tyutin seems like a dead spot at this point. The value might be moving him to free up money more than getting return. Murray is starting to steady the ship and hopefully takes the next step before the end of the year and JJ/Savard have both played pretty well in my opinion. the god awful start has crushed this team once again but the last 15 games this team has looked like a top 8 team in the conference. Should be scoring more at this point.

 

[cslebn]

We shouldn't even be discussing free agents unless the team plans to gut salary. Work would need to be done to fit in a top 4, let alone top 2 guy via free agency. Development and a smart trade would do wonders. One of those trades is likely to move Tyutin or JJ if possible. They are the two with reasonable contracts (length left and $). Tyutin is long in the tooth it would appear whereas JJ has looked good, in my opinion, this year.

I'm guessing Werenski leaves Michigan after this year and can't imagine Prout, Bodnarchuck or Falk being re-signed. That opens a bottom pair spot if he earns it. Goloubef has looked good and could be a cheap extension for the 4-6 spot. Tyutin seems like a dead spot at this point. The value might be moving him to free up money more than getting return. Murray is starting to steady the ship and hopefully takes the next step before the end of the year and JJ/Savard have both played pretty well in my opinion. the god awful start has crushed this team once again but the last 15 games this team has looked like a top 8 team in the conference. Should be scoring more at this point.

I'd actually bet we see one or two of Prout, Bodnarchuck or Falk resigned (2 way likely). That's solely because of needing depth you can call up for injuries and because yeah the UFA list is that bad this year.

Next year we have Tyutin, JJ and Savard signed already. Murray, Connauton, and Prout are RFA. Bodnarchuck and Falk are UFA.

Add in Palliotta and Yevenko are RFAs. Doubt Heatherington is close.

So if we assume we drop Prout, you need both Falk and Bodnarchuck to get 7 D that have played in the NHL.

For reference, there are 80 UFA D next summer (not all of which will make it there).
The highlights are Campbell, Yandle, Buff, and Goligoski. 2-3 of those guys are probably looking for 7M (Campbell is already over 7M but is also 36). Other highlights would include Demers, Russell, Y Weber, Gunnarsson... yeah it's just not good.

 

[Crede777]

Barring a major move, I think we're stuck with what we've got. The window to revamp the defense was during the offseason. Now, I think the smart move is to keep what we have (minus perhaps Tyutin and/or Prout) and build from within. Keep Johnson and Savard as staples. Focus on maturing the NHL games of Murray, Connauton, and Goloubef. Develop Heatherington, Werenski, Carlsson, and Paliotta.

If everything goes well, I could see Werenski or Goloubef being a longterm partner for Murray. Johnson and Savard will be the "veteran" pairing. Then we'd have a bottom pairing that rotates with Carlsson, Connauton, Heatherington, or Paliotta. We can also continue to draft guys.

The main problem facing this team isn't the play in the defensive zone. Our forwards are doing a MUCH better job of backchecking and breaking out, and Johnson/Savard/Murray/Connauton have been surprisingly good in that department.

Our main problem is a lack of a credible threat from the point. Savard is the closest we have, and he isn't being accurate enough. We need someone who can cruise a la Subban or OEL and get that slapshot through bodies. We're creating the traffic in front. We're doing a good job of getting the puck to the point. Problem is, Johnson misses 100% of the time and Savard's either passing up the opportunity or getting it blocked.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Barring a major move, I think we're stuck with what we've got. The window to revamp the defense was during the offseason. Now, I think the smart move is to keep what we have (minus perhaps Tyutin and/or Prout) and build from within. Keep Johnson and Savard as staples. Focus on maturing the NHL games of Murray, Connauton, and Goloubef. Develop Heatherington, Werenski, Carlsson, and Paliotta.

If everything goes well, I could see Werenski or Goloubef being a longterm partner for Murray. Johnson and Savard will be the "veteran" pairing. Then we'd have a bottom pairing that rotates with Carlsson, Connauton, Heatherington, or Paliotta. We can also continue to draft guys.

Well said.

 

[EspenK]

We shouldn't even be discussing free agents unless the team plans to gut salary. Work would need to be done to fit in a top 4, let alone top 2 guy via free agency. Development and a smart trade would do wonders. One of those trades is likely to move Tyutin or JJ if possible. They are the two with reasonable contracts (length left and $). Tyutin is long in the tooth it would appear whereas JJ has looked good, in my opinion, this year.

I'm guessing Werenski leaves Michigan after this year and can't imagine Prout, Bodnarchuck or Falk being re-signed. That opens a bottom pair spot if he earns it. Goloubef has looked good and could be a cheap extension for the 4-6 spot. Tyutin seems like a dead spot at this point. The value might be moving him to free up money more than getting return. Murray is starting to steady the ship and hopefully takes the next step before the end of the year and JJ/Savard have both played pretty well in my opinion. the god awful start has crushed this team once again but the last 15 games this team has looked like a top 8 team in the conference. Should be scoring more at this point.

I think Bods & falk are re-signed if they will take 2 ways. They are needed depth not the improvement we need.

Golo is signed for next year.

I agree that a top UFA is unlikey due to cap issues.

Hopefully Werenski is signed and can make the team.

Trading JJ at this point would only be a cap relief move and I don't think the benefit of that is worth it unless it frees up cash to sign a Yandle which would be risky because there is no guarantee we could sign him or a like player as a UFA.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

Barring a major move, I think we're stuck with what we've got. The window to revamp the defense was during the offseason. Now, I think the smart move is to keep what we have (minus perhaps Tyutin and/or Prout) and build from within. Keep Johnson and Savard as staples. Focus on maturing the NHL games of Murray, Connauton, and Goloubef. Develop Heatherington, Werenski, Carlsson, and Paliotta.

If everything goes well, I could see Werenski or Goloubef being a longterm partner for Murray. Johnson and Savard will be the "veteran" pairing. Then we'd have a bottom pairing that rotates with Carlsson, Connauton, Heatherington, or Paliotta. We can also continue to draft guys.

The main problem facing this team isn't the play in the defensive zone. Our forwards are doing a MUCH better job of backchecking and breaking out, and Johnson/Savard/Murray/Connauton have been surprisingly good in that department.

Our main problem is a lack of a credible threat from the point. Savard is the closest we have, and he isn't being accurate enough. We need someone who can cruise a la Subban or OEL and get that slapshot through bodies. We're creating the traffic in front. We're doing a good job of getting the puck to the point. Problem is, Johnson misses 100% of the time and Savard's either passing up the opportunity or getting it blocked.

Agree with this too.

 

[CBJx614]

Our main problem is a lack of a credible threat from the point. Savard is the closest we have, and he isn't being accurate enough. We need someone who can cruise a la Subban or OEL and get that slapshot through bodies. We're creating the traffic in front. We're doing a good job of getting the puck to the point. Problem is, Johnson misses 100% of the time and Savard's either passing up the opportunity or getting it blocked.

If some how we could combine Savards power and Murray's ability to get it through and on net we'd have the perfect point threat.