How do you feel about the current state of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[hamzarocks]

We have no first in 2025....

f*** your right we are missing that

Still

Matthews should bring 1 top 5 pick (2023) /prospect + A/A- prospect (core level piece) + An additional 1st (2025)

Marner should get top 15 pick (2023) + B+ prospect + another 1st (2025)

Nylander should get B+ prospect + another 1st (2024)

A lot of the rebuild can be accomplished via these three deals.

2025 we can't get Misa as we dont have our pick but 2026 we do so would look to tank 2024 and 2026 and then 2025 hope to have the additional 1sts from Marner + Matthews deals

2027 we have a roster looking to break out and as long as we balance our draft with D+C+W we will be ready as we ha e space to target quality UFAs

 

[Goose]

Goose,

These poll options are so pro Dubas, no room for any other choices.

Instead of presenting all these non-choices why don't start a thread about why you don't like Shanny moving on from Dubas.

I have no idea why you think that nothing can be accomplished

What? How is that your takeaway from the poll choices? I’m actually confused.

It starts with “we’re in great shape for the cup with Dubas gone.” It’s not possible to be more optimistic than that?

I’m not in the pro Dubas camp. I’m an on-the-fencer but if it were up to me to keep him I wouldn’t given his reported demands.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

The core 4 was a failure after the BJs and Habs series. The meltdowns were abysmal.

We all wanted Keefe and Dubas gone.
And now we got it.

My worst fear was running it back again.

Only up from here IMO.

I’m excited for a new look team for once in these last 7 years

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I feel like right now the team has no GM and only 7 NHL forwards signed for next season, so it would be a bold move to continue down that path.

 

[Donnie740]

It’ll be interesting to see if the Dubas Fan Boi Club starts cheering against the Leafs next year.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

What? How is that your takeaway from the poll choices? I’m actually confused.

It starts with “we’re in great shape for the cup with Dubas gone.” It’s not possible to be more optimistic than that?

I’m not in the pro Dubas camp. I’m an on-the-fencer but if it were up to me to keep him I wouldn’t given his reported demands.

You have 1 positive and 6 disaster choices. Your negatives are heavy handed. You seem to fear what this season holds. GMs get fired and their old teams still move on the next season.

All I'm saying is it's ok to feel the way you do. You should make a thread on why you feel that way. If you don't like what transpired, then post about it.

 

[Puckstuff]

It’ll be interesting to see if the Dubas Fan Boi Club starts cheering against the Leafs next year.

I think they've left the boards all together

 

[KMNRB]

There are talks about how everyone at every level (management, front office, scouting, etc.) are Dubas' guys and if they leave like Spezza did, the team would be in turmoil. That has me a bit worried.

But looking at it from another angle, when would firing a GM be the cause of such turmoil? How can there be so much loyalty to a particular GM? What does all these mean? Doesn't It mean that these people were hired more on their great relationship with the GM than by merit (just think about how much ties to the Soo we have, from players to coaches). All this talk about the entire management being in turmoil as if they may go on strike after firing a GM is, once again, unprecedented in the history of hockey! (okay part of it has to do with the contractual status of the stars, but who set the contracts up to make himself seemingly irreplaceable?) All these just make it more imperative to let Dubas go, even if the Leafs have to retool.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I find it very difficult to use any word but "crisis" when describing this team right now.

There is no GM. The coach and POHO are likely gone this summer. Next year may witness the exodus of Matthews and/or Nylander.

If I sound extremist, it's only because the situation IS extreme.

Assigning Dubas GM was Shanahan's worst move by a country mile. He relinquished a lot of authority. Created another power struggle.

The buck stops with Shanahan.

Then to back Dubas again this year. Willing to follow him even further down the rabbit hole. Shows Shanahan doesn't even care.

Anybody who actually cared about this team wouldn't let Dubas manage so much as the refreshment stand.

Dubas was let go without a replacement. With the most important contract extensions in team history needing negotiation. If Shanahan isn't popping pills and chain smoking right now he should be.

Because someone more than just a GM that apparently didn't even want the job needs to be held accountable if Matthews and Nylander don't get extended.

That's Shanahan.

 

[Goose]

You have 1 positive and 6 disaster choices. Your negatives are heavy handed. You seem to fear what this season holds. GMs get fired and their old teams still move on the next season.

All I'm saying is it's ok to feel the way you do. You should make a thread on why you feel that way. If you don't like what transpired, then post about it.

… wow.

 

[thewave]

f*** your right we are missing that

Still

Matthews should bring 1 top 5 pick (2023) /prospect + A/A- prospect (core level piece) + An additional 1st (2025)

Marner should get top 15 pick (2023) + B+ prospect + another 1st (2025)

Nylander should get B+ prospect + another 1st (2024)

A lot of the rebuild can be accomplished via these three deals.

2025 we can't get Misa as we dont have our pick but 2026 we do so would look to tank 2024 and 2026 and then 2025 hope to have the additional 1sts from Marner + Matthews deals

2027 we have a roster looking to break out and as long as we balance our draft with D+C+W we will be ready as we ha e space to target quality UFAs

I think if we retain on Marner and Matthews, especially on Nylander we can do a bit better. I can't remember if it's only 2 players you can retain on at a time or 3. If you can do 3 and 50% them all you're going to bring back a lot.

like Matthews + Nylander in a single trade 50% retained 10m cap for both players is getting some serious stuff back.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think they've left the boards all together

I don't think they ever existed.

 

[Forecheck1]

With Dubas gone - the future is bright !!

 

[WillyC]

Plan the parade.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Plan the parade.

The Canada Day Parade?

 

[rumman]

Full of hope that the future is going to be fine, interested to see how the cap distribution problem gets addressed, hopeful for a culture change from country club atmosphere to in it to win it all……….

 

[613Leafer]

This is an incredibly critical year. If it plays out that Matthews walks for nothing, it would arguably be the worst management decision over the past 20 years and would legit set us back 5 years.

If we're not VERY confident he's re-signing (and re-signing at a number that is at least in the ballpark of reasonable), then we should trade him before July 1.

So I'm waiting to see how things play out, but I will be highly skeptical if we're sitting on an unsigned Matthews in September.

 

[Roo]

Its easy to overreact in the wake of the round 2 loss to the Panthers. Of course we wanted better, but some of these ‘blow it up’ comments reek of emotion over logic.

The Panthers are playing at a high calibre and their goalie stole them the series. Give them credit. Would we feel better if we lost the same way in the conference finals? Probably not.

In my view, this is about style of play and coaching. Florida played a western conference team style ‘heavy game’, but won because Bob stood on his head. We werent ready for it. My issue is that we did nothing about that. We didnt do anything to get Bob off his game. We didnt get enough traffic to the net, we didnt bump him, agitate him, nothing.

To me, this is a coaching issue, not personnel. Keefe’s answer is generally switching lines and pairings, and ge barely did that against the Panthers. Thats not enough. He did nothing to avoid the Barkov on Matthews line match Florida was going for. Then ppl blame Auston for not scoring. Tkachuk didnt score in the series either. In fact, Keefe really showed his lack of experience and competence in a post-game presser when he ‘couldnt understand’ why Matthews and Marner were trying for the ticky tack play. This is what they do, YOU chose to play them together. You need to support your players and put them in a spot to succeed.

Not saying personnel changes arent needed, but most teams would kill for our core. This is primarily coaching. Florida got swept in the 2nd round last year, and look at them now after changing their coach.

A competent coach gets the most out of his players. Get one, and a legit 2-way 2nd line C so you can shift Tavares to LW. How long did it take TB to get to a cup? Be patient, wholesale changes will set us back further.

 

[wingman75]

All this conversation about why. I don't care. The trajectory of this team in it's current state was not a Stanley Cup win. There is much blame. Owners, Shanny, Dubas, Keefe, (star) Players.

I am excited to see where we go next. All the soft cuddly safety has been removed, and I LOVE IT!

Every single f***er involved with MLSE should not feel invincible. Five seasons with Dubas as GM, who was handed a pretty high end roster. Seven seasons with this core. Nine seasons under Shanny, who finally got ownership to agree to a teardown (first time in my lifetime). 12 seasons under this ownership.

1 series win.

No one should have felt as safe as the people working in this org did (players included). Change was necessary, regardless of how it comes to be!

 

[Albz]

I finally feel like the leafs are going to go for a team that's tough to play against.... and not just draft tiny players. So I am pretty excited. I'm just crossing my fingers we can land McAfee from Vegas.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Kyle's done so much damage that the next GM will find the first couple of years extremely challenging.

 

[ULF_55]

If you lived through the Ballard years ...

This team is a dream.

A regular season top 5 team.

Character issues at the top of the line-up, but they too, like the Ballard years, will pass.

 

[Donnie740]

With Dubas gone - the future is bright !!

It’s only going to get better and better when Bozo the Keefe and Justin Holl are officially let go.

 

[kevsh]

According to Friedman on the 32 Thoughts podcast, an unnamed player indicated to him that more than a few players were "very blunt" in their exit interviews on their assessment of what went wrong with the team.

That could be interpreted several ways but it clearly indicates this was an unhappy locker room, and perhaps that was reflected on the ice.

My first guess would be the harsh words were mostly directed at Keefe's coaching and in part his pathological obsession with juggling his lines. Every day, every practice, every period in a game.

Secondly his many very bad coaching decisions - too many to list, just go back to the game day threads for a sample. Their power play once again failed them in the playoffs while Nylander, their best forward overall was inexplicably stuck on the 2nd unit trying. At times, especially to start the season, it seems this group has tuned him out and their dismal series against the Panthers could be an indication they just wanted the season to end quickly.

In any case, I'd be very, very curious to know exactly what the players were saying. Maybe in time more will come out, but regardless, I think everyone should finally be on the same page that somehow, some way this team needs big changes and Dubas leaving will hopefully be the domino that sets that starts it.

~12 minutes in for the part about exit interviews;

 

[Donnie740]

According to Friedman on the 32 Thoughts podcast, an unnamed player indicated to him that more than a few players were "very blunt" in their exit interviews on their assessment of what went wrong with the team.

That could be interpreted several ways but it clearly indicates this was an unhappy locker room, and perhaps that was reflected on the ice.

My first guess would be the harsh words were mostly directed at Keefe's coaching and in part his pathological obsession with juggling his lines. Every day, every practice, every period in a game.

Secondly his many very bad coaching decisions - too many to list, just go back to the game day threads for a sample. Their power play once again failed them in the playoffs while Nylander, their best forward overall was inexplicably stuck on the 2nd unit trying. At times, especially to start the season, it seems this group has tuned him out and their dismal series against the Panthers could be an indication they just wanted the season to end quickly.

In any case, I'd be very, very curious to know exactly what the players were saying. Maybe in time more will come out, but regardless, I think everyone should finally be on the same page that somehow, some way this team needs big changes and Dubas leaving will hopefully be the domino that sets that starts it.

~12 minutes in for the part about exit interviews;

Constantly juggling the lines around is just one of many colossal blunders that Bozo the Keefe made.

Casual fans and millennials new to following hockey may not remember the last time Toronto had great playoff runs - - with a real coach.

Lefebvre and Macoun were the lockdown defence pairing and Pat Burns would never dream of constantly splitting them up. Same with the shutdown checking line of Berg/Zezel/Osborne.

THAT’S the type of players and coaching you win with in the playoffs.

Not the embarrassment that Dubas and Bozo the Keefe made of the past half decade.