How can the culture be changed with Dubas still in charge?

[ShaneFalco]

There's no evidence that we're too top heavy. In fact, we've built a very impressive team around the core 4, despite the unforeseen challenges we ran into, by adapting very well.

If this is impressive to you, I'm not sure what to tell you

 

[Dreakmur]

There's no evidence that we're too top heavy. In fact, we've built a very impressive team around the core 4, despite the unforeseen challenges we ran into, by adapting very well.

Results are evidence.

Playoff hockey is different. That’s the apparently unforeseen challenge.

 

[Pi]

lol...making friends I see...To the bolded, and yet we got knocked out in the 1st round again, and in humiliating fashion to boot, but yea ok we are one of the best teams, no.... really.

Tampa got swept after winning the President's Trophy. I didn't see them trading Kucherov away for being stupid and selfish and getting suspended in that series or Point, Stamkos etc.

They kept the core, and added to it. What's wrong in backing your players?

 

[ToneDog]

So he’ll go to a team with an appropriately paid core?

Yup but they need to win before McKinnon needs to be reupped. God help them if Dubas is in charge of resigning him.

 

[Pi]

These TB comparisons..... TB actually won playoff rounds before the sweep.

What good is a playoff series win if you don't win the whole thing? At this point, a series win isn't satisfying anyone. People want the whole thing.

Trust me, you would still be calling them a bunch of chokers if they lost in the second or third round, just like everyone called Ovechkin a choker.

 

[realgoodleafs]

What exactly should the Leafs "blow up"? Are you suggesting trading 23, 24 and 25 year olds for 20 year olds or are you making lateral trades for equivalent aged players?

Yeah. This team doesn't have what it takes to win so I'm basically down for trading anybody. I'd keep Matthews but I'm pretty sure he'll bolt in 3 years.

 

[Lightsol]

Via a trade.

Players don't change

Yep, players never change, which is why we're avoid resigning that perennial selfish center, Jason Spezza... Wait, you mean he learned not to be a selfish me-first player? But players NEVER change!

 

[Gallagbi]

Yeah, you have to wonder when the Big 4 becomes someone else’s adversity instead of always running into speed bumps.

It's the hunter instead of the hunted mentality we've talked about before.

Feels like this team is trying to stop the bad from happening instead of forcing the good to.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Tampa got swept after winning the President's Trophy. I didn't see them trading Kucherov away for being stupid and selfish and getting suspended in that series or Point, Stamkos etc.

They kept the core, and added to it. What's wrong in backing your players?

These players have literally done nothing to deserve having so much faith being put in them.

 

[PromisedLand]

Betting your job on a team thats lost in the first round 5 years in a row. Good bet bro.

He is a faker. Guy's been lying and spewing BS since 2019. Look at this quotes from 2019; he same the same BS. Freakin' moron. This is the TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS its not a beer league team to learn on the job and experimenting with bullshit

 

[Lightsol]

Yeah. This team doesn't have what it takes to win so I'm basically down for trading anybody. I'd keep Matthews but I'm pretty sure he'll bolt in 3 years.

I'm so looking forward to another decade in the hockey wilderness...

 

[myleafs]

Tampa got swept after winning the President's Trophy. I didn't see them trading Kucherov away for being stupid and selfish and getting suspended in that series or Point, Stamkos etc.

They kept the core, and added to it. What's wrong in backing your players?

Tampa had much more success than the leafs before and after that sweep no? Its been brought up in here a lot. Comparing Tampa and their boo boo after the success they had before it and after it to the leafs is bizarre.

 

[Pi]

These players have literally done nothing to deserve having so much faith being put in them.

Nylander was good in the playoffs, Tavares didn't even play.

Matthews is the best goal scorer in the league. Marner is the one player I would look to trade to retool but even then Marner is a ~90 point player in a league where there aren't many 90 point guys.

You can fire Dubas and trust me the next guy in charge is also not trading any of them just for the sake of trading them.

 

[ShaneFalco]

These players have literally done nothing to deserve having so much faith being put in them.

Exactly. It's not just the losing, it's the way they lose. It's the way they'll watch JT being cross-checked over and over and skate away. Or play against the isles in their captain's first game back and lay an egg. Or health care workers in the stands again the Habs and play like it's an exhibition game. It's the total lack of compete that happens far, far too often.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Results are evidence.

The results do not suggest that.

 

[Captain Crunch]

It's not 5 first round losses by the same team though - just the same logo. People are using losses (majority of which were to elite teams better than us) by the slimmest of margins by very different teams to suggest that the type of team we have built now, that we've never actually been able to see in the playoffs, doesn't work.

The majority of those losses came with a bad defense. The majority of those losses came with a completely different goalie. The majority of those losses came without Tavares - a massive part of our current forward group. They've never had the 3 positions, as currently constructed, in the playoffs.

Was the “core” there for all those losses? What about Andersen? What about management?
I really believe we are, sooner than expected, going to see how ineffective it is to nickel and dime the bottom six because half the cap is tied up in 4 of the top 6.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Was the “core” there for all those losses?

No, they weren't, and a core does not win alone anyway.

 

[egd27]

Nobody seems to understand, because the statement repeatedly changed, and was never actually explained in the first place. The clear intent, based on your post and the discussion it was responding to, seemed to be that shots = effort. But you seem to have abandoned that once it was shown that both shot results and 1st period shot results contradicted your stance on Leaf effort. Why don't you share with all of us what the posts were trying to convey?

@PromisedLand, @ToneDog, @Jimmy Firecracker @axlrose87, @Lumberg all understood it.

It's ok if you don't get it Dekes, not everyone has the ability to be able read something and understand the intent when they don't have the background or experience to reference.

You're very good at understanding expected goals, so don't feel badly.

 

[myleafs]

What good is a playoff series win if you don't win the whole thing? At this point, a series win isn't satisfying anyone. People want the whole thing.

Trust me, you would still be calling them a bunch of chokers if they lost in the second or third round, just like everyone called Ovechkin a choker.

How bout we win a round first then we can talk about how we will react if they lose in the 3rd.

 

[Stephen]

It's the hunter instead of the hunted mentality we've talked about before.

Feels like this team is trying to stop the bad from happening instead of forcing the good to.

My worry is the whole culture of “belief” that “we can do it.” Like no, it has nothing to do with belief. You’re in a dog fight against an opponent with their own strengths, agenda and timeline to win and are you going to get your hands dirty to get the job done?

 

[PromisedLand]

Steve yzerman, joe Sakic, Alex ovechkin all say hello

Stevie Y - Bowman basically told him to change the way he plays or he won't be a detroit redwing

Ovi - Trotz built a culture where physicality, standing up for each other and defense first was the mentality witout sacrificing 0ffense. ALSO Trotz didnt hesitate to play backstrom-ovi or kuznetsov-ovi or other combinations unlike the MORON Keefe

Sakic - I would give you more details but above two are enough and I am sure you are going to do everything to defend the overlords so this is it

 

[ToneDog]

He is a faker. Guy's been lying and spewing BS since 2019. Look at this quotes from 2019; he same the same BS. Freakin' moron. This is the TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS its not a beer league team to learn on the job and experimenting with bullshit

It is the TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS but he freeking is getting away with it. Is everybody asleep down at the cash box ?? Seriously somebody wake up already.

 

[myleafs]

What? McDavid always looks like he cares. And Kuch is a beast in the playoffs. These examples are whack.

lol I was gonna say....those are the two guys he brings up to make his point?

 

[PromisedLand]

Trumped only by his press conference to tell everyone Cody Ceci is really good at hockey.

the intergalactic machine produces "stats" that no one has and no one will ever understand

It's called the "Shan-Dub" abbreviated for shanahan and dubas

 

[myleafs]

We have not been let down by any players in the bottom 6 in our playoff runs. We get Bottom 6 level performances from the core 4, its really that simple. That is why we have not won a single round. Explain to me how exactly you would have handled Willy, Mitch and Auston 3 years ago? contracts aside, would you have resigned those 3 players? if the answer is yes (which I suspect it would be), then your results would be the same. You cannot win when your best players no show when it matters the most. Good, bad or indifferent this is the core he was dealt. A very good one yes, but they have yet to show that they can get over the hump. Not the bottom 6, defense, or goaltending... the core 4.

He inherited a terrible defense, and has since made it a top 10 defense in the league (not easy to do). He inherited an egomaniac as a coach, he addressed that. He inherited some tough "untradeable" contracts (Zaitzev, Marleau) and addressed that.

I will not fault Kyle for putting faith in Mitch, Auston, Willy, and JT. Any f***ing GM on the planet would do the same. If you think the contrary, I am really not sure how.

Our prospect depth is phenomenal. And despite being in a flat cap era that was completely unforeseen, which arguably handcuffed the Leafs more than any other NHL franchise, we were still entering last seasons post season with maybe the best NHL caliber depth out of any playoff team. We had Rittich as a number 3, Gally, Nash, Hutton, Lilly, Dermott, and Sandin all fighting for 2 spots.

I will admit I don't agree with the moves he has made this offseason. But Kyle is a very smart GM, and if he "fails" here it will be because Auston and Mitch don't step up and live up to their potential when it counts most. Kyle will be scooped up in 10 seconds if he gets relieved. He has done a lot of good work in his tenure. Other NHL teams don't have the same emotional irrationality that this fanbase has

Thats the thing...he is smart and has done some good things like you mentioned, however his blindspot is the core 4. Overpaying them didnt help but sticking to his guns with these 4 come hell or highwater is shortsighted and will probably cost him his career. Its a shame because I think if he could just step back and not be so attached he could do good things.