How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[hotpaws]

JT was playing at a non NHL level last night vs the Coyotes, making outrageously dangerous cut back dekes in the defensive end along the boards when he should have been clearing the puck, and then stumbling around corralling the puck defensively while under siege.

Which came off the brain dead turnover vs Vegas which put the game out of reach for Toronto.

Which followed up on the near Patrik Stefan EN vs Colorado conceding a grade A chance for Mackinnon to tie at the buzzer beater.

I just don’t get how a player of that caliber and status can crater like he has since December. We’re not even talking about a Claude Giroux who’s a little older, little slower but can still play. Every time he sneezes we hear about how professional and prepared he is, how detailed he is. I don’t see any of it.

He’s just a guy with a big reputation, big paycheque but is consistently so unpredictable and poor. If he pulled a Larry Murphy and went somewhere else and had some success, I wouldn’t mind.

he's been mediocre for a long time , people just refused to see it and now that he isn't being carried by Willie or Mitch and he's regressed a little further it's clear as day how poor a player he really is , also the team didn't demote him to the third line and 2nd pp for shits and giggles , next step is not throwing him on with AM/JT

you can also tell how poorly he's been playing since even Zybalto took a day off of spewing sunshine and rainbows about JT

 

[RunItBackAgain]

he's been mediocre for a long time , people just refused to see it and now that he isn't being carried by Willie or Mitch and he's regressed a little further it's clear as day how poor a player he really is , also the team didn't demote him to the third line and 2nd pp for shits and giggles , next step is not throwing him on with AM/JT

you can also tell how poorly he's been playing since even Zybalto took a day off of spewing sunshine and rainbows about JT

 

[MarMarSab3]

View attachment 827807

Haha and that was in 1st game of the season

 

[57 Years No Cup]

they could simply agree that he'll retire after he collects his signing bonus this summer which would cost him only 900k before the tax he doesn't pay

problem is JT has no plans on retiring and the other problem is Johnny thinks he's an elite player and is going to make team Canada next year

he also probably thinks he'll be getting a 7/8m x 4yr this summer offer with the appropriate spin how he gave us a discount

You know the "funny" part about what you said, HP? The Leafs will give it to him, because image is everything in PC Corporate Toronto.

Winning matters not. They just want to keep not offending anyone.

 

[Duffman955]

I'm serious when I say Tavares had a huge step down in performance after his son, not sure if it's related.

Been especially bad on offense and defense this year.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm serious when I say Tavares had a huge step down in performance after his son, not sure if it's related.

Been especially bad on offense and defense this year.

having a son before his 2nd season here had little to do with his drop in play/production

what did affect his play/production is Mitch being moved to AM's wing

 

[hotpaws]

You know the "funny" part about what you said, HP? The Leafs will give it to him, because image is everything in PC Corporate Toronto.

Winning matters not. They just want to keep not offending anyone.

I was afraid of that until they demoted him to the 3rd line and to the 2nd pp unit .

Now it looks like they don't want him back at all and are making it obvious he's not needed .

 

[Duffman955]

having a son before his 2nd season here had little to do with his drop in play/production

what did affect his play/production is Mitch being moved to AM's wing

I'm not talking about his points.

I'm talking about his skating, drive, sharpness, shot, etc.

Looks physically weaker and mentally lost put there

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not talking about his points.

I'm talking about his skating, drive, sharpness, shot, etc.

Looks physically weaker and mentally lost put there

he had his first son just before his 2nd season here , he has 3 kids now and it has nothing to do with his play

JT was never a good skater , he's been regressing for years and now it's at the point that he's so slow in all his movements that he can't gain any space , players realize how slow he is and close quickly without fear of him getting around them .

Mentally he hasn't come to grips the world doesn't revolve around him like it did on the island/jr and the demotion has shook him regardless of what he says .

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I think we all realized that the last couple of years of JT's contract would be rough, I never imagined it would be this rough though.

 

[CelticDruid]

Maybe, he just retires and hangs out with his family.

He might ask for a trade, but near impossible to move that contract.

Can't wait to move on from him.

 

[glue]

I think JT on line 3 is right where he should be, but what is frustrating is he’s currently playing his worst hockey. Even with seemingly ‘easier’ matchups than what he’s used to, dude is making a lot of poor decisions. Dont know if it’s his ‘ minor injury’ or something else. But it’s weird, cause over the years I have heard people talk about his ‘high IQ’ and then I see him make a terrible play - either a defensive giveaway or taking a shot when he should pass. Anyway, for our sake let’s hope the guys starts ‘thriving’ on line 3 soon

 

[Zybalto]

he's been mediocre for a long time , people just refused to see it and now that he isn't being carried by Willie or Mitch and he's regressed a little further it's clear as day how poor a player he really is , also the team didn't demote him to the third line and 2nd pp for shits and giggles , next step is not throwing him on with AM/JT

you can also tell how poorly he's been playing since even Zybalto took a day off of spewing sunshine and rainbows about JT

I actually stayed out of here once you came in and started personally attacking me which for all my debates and disagreements I've had in here before, I've never had happen to me before, and then you didnt even bring any receipts once I asked you. Since you brought up my name again, I feel I have to respond even though I'm not really into engaging with bad faith posters like that but I'll give you one more chance.

Tavares as he enters his mid 30s HAS taken a step back, he should never be put on a 4v4 or 3v3 situations anymore and I'm not a fan of the Leafs loading up with him instead of Nylander for a top end superline.......

but

Tavares HAS also been better than many are saying and it's uneven mix of good and bad that has so many just focusing on the bad. It's like the last game where Tavares beats 2 guys on the boards and drives the net and draws the only penalty or when after the Leafs other top guns get dominated for a full minute in the third, his line came out and cycled the Yotes into the ground. No one even mentions these things and then all you hear is how he bobled a puck or made a tired play when his line was stuck on after an icing. Hell, even with Robertson having an actual rough game (which is why it looks like he was chosen to be replaced by the incoming Jarnkrok) and killing a few plays, Tavares line was really good that night overall. Did you know teams have only scored a single goal against them since they were put together? Need more offense of course but Tavares has certainly added a stabilizing effect to third line defensively that wasnt there before (as he's in the midst of maybe the best defensive season of his career). I'm far more worried about something else. though....

The fact the 2nd line is getting run over almost every game.

It's becoming more and more apparent that Domi is struggling badly with 2nd line matchups and the line has been insulated from more criticism by Bertuzzi finally getting some puck luck (the last 2 goals the line has scored were Bertuzzi tipping in a point shot and just flinging it at the net). I love to see it but its covering up the fact our current line is getting wrecked overall and here are the breakdowns between the supposedly "bad" line we had before and the new Domi line:

Bertuzzi/Tavares/Nylander:
TOI: 354:54
Shots: 218-174
Scoring Chances: 226-151
High Danger Chances: 100-61
Goals: 16-12

Bertuzzi/Domi/Nylander:
TOI: 76:49
Shots: 46-42
Scoring Chances: 37-52
High Danger Chances: 11-21
Goals: 6-5

Many of us watching these last few games are more than concerned with running this new 2nd line against he likes of Boston or Florida for a 7 game series. Are you more comfortable running this new 2nd line instead of the old one? ....and Domi had been thriving on the 3rd line with certain wingers too.

That has been my argument the entire time. We had a good 2nd line that was playing well and getting unlucky and now we have a bad 2nd line that is getting lucky and still underperforms the old one in actual results.....but there is still time to change things of course.

It looks like we are getting an extended look here so maybe both the new second and third lines will improve more. Maybe Domi will get more comfortable with matchups and maybe Jarnkrok will grab the 3rd line a few more goals. The goal is to win in the playoffs right? We all want that to happen and we can all talk about the best way to get there without throwing out insults.

 

[disgruntleddave]

He's been deking into players' skates and losing the puck on offense for years. The difference this year is that he's also making the same horrible decisions with the puck in the D zone.

I'd say that he's only effective ish with the puck on the boards. Nowhere else should he have the puck on his stick for an extended period of time. However that may be why he's just bailing on the puck in the D zone in the stupidest ways.

 

[WillyC]

Hope our Captain finds his game soon… it’s pathetic, watching the same usual suspects keep coming back into this thread to relentlessly bash JT.

I get it… express your thoughts after a poor performance… however, to keep coming back multiple times per day to whine and complain… is pathetic.

 

[Racer88]

The Athletics current rankings for Tavares this year:

Offensive percentile: 90%
Defensive percentile: 80% (Having his best defensive season maybe ever)
Market value: 9 million

The fact he's also a top 10 faceoff guy in the league and still a workhorse (He's averaged the most 5v5 minutes/game of any forward on the team during this win streak) spikes up his value despite the dip in production.

I’m thinking the Athletics needs to watch his games and not just his hypothetical stats

I think we all realized that the last couple of years of JT's contract would be rough, I never imagined it would be this rough though.

Just wait until next year……….

 

[Confucius]

I'm serious when I say Tavares had a huge step down in performance after his son, not sure if it's related.

Been especially bad on offense and defense this year.

Well he still has more hits than our number 1 dman. But then again so do Reeves and Gregor and they hardly ever play

 

[Pi]

I think he’s going to bounce back to be a ~60 point guy. In any case, he was great for 5 years and now he’s slowing down but you can’t count him out on making a comeback.

Be glad that he’s been so good for much of the contract.

Look at Timo Meier. 27 years old 8.8 long term and he’s been shit and has 27 points.

 

[All Mod Cons]

His 11mil contract is killing us.

95 more games.

 

[Zybalto]

I’m thinking the Athletics needs to watch his games and not just his hypothetical stats

The stats arnt hypothetical, they are a mix of offensive and defensive chances, transition play, etc. and, of course, outcomes.

The problem with defensive play is that most fans dont see it nor care to and Tavares has put in the work there this season which is why his value is so high despite the drop in production.

 

[JL17]

The stats arnt hypothetical, they are a mix of offensive and defensive chances, transition play, etc. and, of course, outcomes.

The problem with defensive play is that most fans dont see it nor care to and Tavares has put in the work there this season which is why his value is so high despite the drop in production.

He hasn’t been good defensively. He's lost in his own end. Takes the wrong guy constantly or is in poor position. Whatever line he’s been on gets hemmed in constantly. It’s been like this all year.

 

[hotpaws]

I actually stayed out of here once you came in and started personally attacking me which for all my debates and disagreements I've had in here before, I've never had happen to me before, and then you didnt even bring any receipts once I asked you. Since you brought up my name again, I feel I have to respond even though I'm not really into engaging with bad faith posters like that but I'll give you one more chance.

Tavares as he enters his mid 30s HAS taken a step back, he should never be put on a 4v4 or 3v3 situations anymore and I'm not a fan of the Leafs loading up with him instead of Nylander for a top end superline.......

but

Tavares HAS also been better than many are saying and it's uneven mix of good and bad that has so many just focusing on the bad. It's like the last game where Tavares beats 2 guys on the boards and drives the net and draws the only penalty or when after the Leafs other top guns get dominated for a full minute in the third, his line came out and cycled the Yotes into the ground. No one even mentions these things and then all you hear is how he bobled a puck or made a tired play when his line was stuck on after an icing. Hell, even with Robertson having an actual rough game (which is why it looks like he was chosen to be replaced by the incoming Jarnkrok) and killing a few plays, Tavares line was really good that night overall. Did you know teams have only scored a single goal against them since they were put together? Need more offense of course but Tavares has certainly added a stabilizing effect to third line defensively that wasnt there before (as he's in the midst of maybe the best defensive season of his career). I'm far more worried about something else. though....

The fact the 2nd line is getting run over almost every game.

It's becoming more and more apparent that Domi is struggling badly with 2nd line matchups and the line has been insulated from more criticism by Bertuzzi finally getting some puck luck (the last 2 goals the line has scored were Bertuzzi tipping in a point shot and just flinging it at the net). I love to see it but its covering up the fact our current line is getting wrecked overall and here are the breakdowns between the supposedly "bad" line we had before and the new Domi line:

Bertuzzi/Tavares/Nylander:
TOI: 354:54
Shots: 218-174
Scoring Chances: 226-151
High Danger Chances: 100-61
Goals: 16-12

Bertuzzi/Domi/Nylander:
TOI: 76:49
Shots: 46-42
Scoring Chances: 37-52
High Danger Chances: 11-21
Goals: 6-5

Many of us watching these last few games are more than concerned with running this new 2nd line against he likes of Boston or Florida for a 7 game series. Are you more comfortable running this new 2nd line instead of the old one? ....and Domi had been thriving on the 3rd line with certain wingers too.

That has been my argument the entire time. We had a good 2nd line that was playing well and getting unlucky and now we have a bad 2nd line that is getting lucky and still underperforms the old one in actual results.....but there is still time to change things of course.

It looks like we are getting an extended look here so maybe both the new second and third lines will improve more. Maybe Domi will get more comfortable with matchups and maybe Jarnkrok will grab the 3rd line a few more goals. The goal is to win in the playoffs right? We all want that to happen and we can all talk about the best way to get there without throwing out insults.

no one attacked you , your just being overly sensitive when someone disagrees with your "subtly over the top homer shtick or your oh look at me , i'm so unbiased shtick'' , your also getting more and more frustrated that people are realizing JT has been carried by either Willie or Mitch .

and true to form your throwing Johnny's linemates under the bus to deflect attention from JT's poor play as well as bashing the new 2nd line even though they've been productive to try to get Johnny switched back

on the bright side , there's hopefully only about 100 more regular season games you have to spew your sunshine and rainbows bs for JT

I think he’s going to bounce back to be a ~60 point guy. In any case, he was great for 5 years and now he’s slowing down but you can’t count him out on making a comeback.

Be glad that he’s been so good for much of the contract.

Look at Timo Meier. 27 years old 8.8 long term and he’s been shit and has 27 points.

new father

 

[hotpaws]

Hope our Captain finds his game soon… it’s pathetic, watching the same usual suspects keep coming back into this thread to relentlessly bash JT.

I get it… express your thoughts after a poor performance… however, to keep coming back multiple times per day to whine and complain… is pathetic.

you seem to be taking this very personally , are you related to JT ?

 

[Zybalto]

no one attacked you , your just being overly sensitive when someone disagrees with your "subtly over the top homer shtick or your oh look at me , i'm so unbiased shtick'' , your also getting more and more frustrated that people are realizing JT has been carried by either Willie or Mitch .

and true to form your throwing Johnny's linemates under the bus to deflect attention from JT's poor play as well as bashing the new 2nd line even though they've been productive to try to get Johnny switched back

You came into the thread, claimed I said things I didnt say, refused to provide any examples of when I said these things and then when I disengaged, continued to badmouth me and its just me "being sensitive" as im doing some kind of "shtick". Please.

I don't think Tavares has clicked all that well with Marner outside of his initial season here and on the PP and anyone could see Robertson struggling a bit last game killing plays.

Here are Willys 5v5 stats this season without Matthews and Tavares:

Shot Differential: 43.24
High Danger Chance Differential: 33.73
xGF%: 33.66
Goal Differential: 37.18

Here are Tavares 5v5 numbers without Marner and Willy:

Shot Differential: 50.24
High Danger Chance Differential: 56.36
xGF%: 53.70
Goal Differential: 55.81

Are you talking about Willy or Tavares this season? I don't know.

It appears to be what I am seeing on the ice as well. What am I missing here? I mean, Im watching all the games and you appear to have the worst case of confirmation bias around here if you dont see the 2nd line giving up grade "A" chances game after game. Let go of narratives.

Moneypucks ranking of the top Leafs Lines this season with 50+ minutes:

Bertuzzi/Domi/Nylander: 11th out of 11

League-wide:

Bertuzzi/Domi/Nylander: 359th out of 378

I suppose they could actually be some kind of unicorn line in that they cancel out all advanced stats and this is sustainable but I'm skeptical to say the least.

...and through all this, I'm still down with riding the experiment a little longer. Keefe would love to have 3 solid lines to combat other teams depth players crushing ours in many of the playoff runs. If Jarnkrok really gels on that 3rd line and Domi figures it out more defensively in his 2nd line minutes (they are also playing the crap out of Ozone starts too) then this could all work.

 

[WillyC]

you seem to be taking this very personally , are you related to JT ?

Not at all… you just don’t see how pathetic you come across with your constant whining and complaining.

It’s literally like a broken record.