How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[Zybalto]

He hasn’t been good defensively. He's lost in his own end. Takes the wrong guy constantly or is in poor position. Whatever line he’s been on gets hemmed in constantly. It’s been like this all year.

....and yet he has the best defensive stats of his career this season.

He was never much a defensive center but this season his numbers are great. They just are.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I don't think he's playing at 100% either. Since his recent injury, there has been a noticeable drop off in his compete level.

He’s doing no one favours playing injured

 

[CelticDruid]

Hope our Captain finds his game soon… it’s pathetic, watching the same usual suspects keep coming back into this thread to relentlessly bash JT.

I get it… express your thoughts after a poor performance… however, to keep coming back multiple times per day to whine and complain… is pathetic.

He sucks,
He sucks,

And he sucks!

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I actually stayed out of here once you came in and started personally attacking me which for all my debates and disagreements I've had in here before, I've never had happen to me before, and then you didnt even bring any receipts once I asked you. Since you brought up my name again, I feel I have to respond even though I'm not really into engaging with bad faith posters like that but I'll give you one more chance.

Tavares as he enters his mid 30s HAS taken a step back, he should never be put on a 4v4 or 3v3 situations anymore and I'm not a fan of the Leafs loading up with him instead of Nylander for a top end superline.......

but

Tavares HAS also been better than many are saying and it's uneven mix of good and bad that has so many just focusing on the bad. It's like the last game where Tavares beats 2 guys on the boards and drives the net and draws the only penalty or when after the Leafs other top guns get dominated for a full minute in the third, his line came out and cycled the Yotes into the ground. No one even mentions these things and then all you hear is how he bobled a puck or made a tired play when his line was stuck on after an icing. Hell, even with Robertson having an actual rough game (which is why it looks like he was chosen to be replaced by the incoming Jarnkrok) and killing a few plays, Tavares line was really good that night overall. Did you know teams have only scored a single goal against them since they were put together? Need more offense of course but Tavares has certainly added a stabilizing effect to third line defensively that wasnt there before (as he's in the midst of maybe the best defensive season of his career). I'm far more worried about something else. though....

The fact the 2nd line is getting run over almost every game.

It's becoming more and more apparent that Domi is struggling badly with 2nd line matchups and the line has been insulated from more criticism by Bertuzzi finally getting some puck luck (the last 2 goals the line has scored were Bertuzzi tipping in a point shot and just flinging it at the net). I love to see it but its covering up the fact our current line is getting wrecked overall and here are the breakdowns between the supposedly "bad" line we had before and the new Domi line:

Bertuzzi/Tavares/Nylander:
TOI: 354:54
Shots: 218-174
Scoring Chances: 226-151
High Danger Chances: 100-61
Goals: 16-12

Bertuzzi/Domi/Nylander:
TOI: 76:49
Shots: 46-42
Scoring Chances: 37-52
High Danger Chances: 11-21
Goals: 6-5

Many of us watching these last few games are more than concerned with running this new 2nd line against he likes of Boston or Florida for a 7 game series. Are you more comfortable running this new 2nd line instead of the old one? ....and Domi had been thriving on the 3rd line with certain wingers too.

That has been my argument the entire time. We had a good 2nd line that was playing well and getting unlucky and now we have a bad 2nd line that is getting lucky and still underperforms the old one in actual results.....but there is still time to change things of course.

It looks like we are getting an extended look here so maybe both the new second and third lines will improve more. Maybe Domi will get more comfortable with matchups and maybe Jarnkrok will grab the 3rd line a few more goals. The goal is to win in the playoffs right? We all want that to happen and we can all talk about the best way to get there without throwing out insults.

Oh look! Another of the "advanced stats" are everything crew! The game is played on the ice, and production is king. How about this stat: Give me the PP100k stat he's been producing lately (aka value for money).

He's done.

 

[Zybalto]

Oh look! Another of the "advanced stats" are everything crew! The game is played on the ice, and production is king. How about this stat: Give me the PP100k stat he's been producing lately (aka value for money).

He's done.

The only ones really doing a "value-for-money" rating is the Athletic right now which takes into account everything from goals and points production, actual goals scored for and against while on the ice, intangibles like shot blocking and faceoff% as well as things like Powerplay and PK efficiency and penalty differential....and yea, they also take into account advanced stats like scoring chance differentials, etc...

Currently, Tavares has the following stats there:

Offensive impact: 87th percentile
Defensive Impact: 84th percentile

Market value: 8.7 million

Biggest issue: Lack of finish from either him or linemates. (On-ice finish vs. expected)

Comparable market value among centers: Braydon Point, Brady Tkachuk, Vincent Trocheck, Matt Barzal, Bo Horvat, Robert Thomas

 

[Its not your fault]

Oh look! Another of the "advanced stats" are everything crew! The game is played on the ice, and production is king. How about this stat: Give me the PP100k stat he's been producing lately (aka value for money).

He's done.

Best to get a new team

 

[Gallagbi]

The only ones really doing a "value-for-money" rating is the Athletic right now which takes into account everything from goals and points production, actual goals scored for and against while on the ice, intangibles like shot blocking and faceoff% as well as things like Powerplay and PK efficiency and penalty differential....and yea, they also take into account advanced stats like scoring chance differentials, etc...

Currently, Tavares has the following stats there:

Offensive impact: 87th percentile
Defensive Impact: 84th percentile

Market value: 8.7 million

Biggest issue: Lack of finish from either him or linemates. (On-ice finish vs. expected)

Comparable market value among centers: Braydon Point, Brady Tkachuk, Vincent Trocheck, Matt Barzal, Bo Horvat, Robert Thomas

It's funny, conversion/finish is the one piece I expected consistency from him

 

[Zybalto]

It's funny, conversion/finish is the one piece I expected consistency from him

Tavares himself has certainly been more inconsistent from his prime years in that area and that also includes all those open nets missed and posts from linemate Bertuzzi too for a while there.

Other than finally putting the puck in the net, the old second line was one of the best in hockey (which is why, despite the lack of finish, they still rocked a 57%+ goal differential)

 

[Gallagbi]

Tavares himself has certainly been more inconsistent from his prime years in that area and that also includes all those open nets missed and posts from linemate Bertuzzi too for a while there.

Other than finally putting the puck in the net, the old second line was one of the best in hockey (which is why, despite the lack of finish, they still rocked a 57%+ goal differential)

Yeah I'm thinking less of the line itself and more of Tavares individually re finishing

 

[BrannigansLaw]

At this point he can only score off of his ass or knees.

Certified 3rd line grinding center now. Stone hands and feet.

 

[Ciao]

Nice goal tonight. He has a wicked shot.

 

[no2ninja]

The Captain is a great player who is amazing when he is healthy, but at this late in his career, its easy for him to get nagging injuries, ones that do not keep him from playing, but keep him from playing his best self.

This is to be expected as people are looking at this as the twilight of his career, and his game is not going to regress as most of his production is based on high IQ play, and that can be kept up even at a ripe age. It's the beatings, thrashings, and bruises that will hold him back. He is quite the warrior and will always be able to play through a high threshold of pain, but his best traits are being able to impart knowledge to the young guys!

Listen to the young guys who play with him talk about how good he is at passing on tips and tricks, little wisdoms that make great players greater. He seems to have a good way of putting into words what a lot of players of his caliber often fail at. Lots of the elite players just do what they do, they do not know how to break it down and explain the logistics and cheats, he seems to excel at that and the young ones love hearing him talk shop. He will make a great coach if he ever wants to go in that direction.

 

[Zybalto]

Yeah I'm thinking less of the line itself and more of Tavares individually re finishing

He'll still go through good periods (4 5v5 goals in his last 7 games) but, yea, Ovi is sort of the exception to the rule these great goal scorers will start missing the mark more as they get into their mid thirties.

I'm not completely sold on him not being on the first PP right now though.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm not completely sold on him not being on the first PP right now though.

Agreed. Small samples, but...
When Tavares has joined Matthews, Marner, and Nylander on the PP this year, the unit has generated 12.3 xGF/60.
When Bertuzzi has joined Matthews, Marner, and Nylander on the PP this year, the unit has generated 9.27 xGF/60.

It was worth riding the conversion wave, and the 2nd unit is better with Tavares instead of Bertuzzi, but overall, it's still better to have Tavares on the 1st unit, especially if we're going to be playing them significantly more than the 2nd unit.

 

[Bomber0104]

At this point he can only score off of his ass or knees.

Certified 3rd line grinding center now. Stone hands and feet.

Take what we can get at this point.

The guy's skating with a piano on his back, so he definitely doesn't need the weight of the fanbase/media added on to it.

 

[drede]

He’s doing no one favours playing injured

He's been good lately with the 3rd line

 

[therealkoho]

the one thing JT gives the team every night is an honest effort, sure maybe he doesn't get the 1st star nod that much anymore but he almost always puts a mark on the scoresheet, if not a G or an A maybe the 3rd touch on a goal. There are a lot of players in this league who almost never give 100% of what they have, Tavares isn't one of them.

His contract is what it is, and it cannot be changed! You just need to forget about it, because nobody can do anything about it.

 

[Maple Leaf]

overall nothing was accom-plished by this signing other than preventing a cup

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

overall nothing was accom-plished by this signing other than preventing a cup

I agree. Kadri was the ideal third-line two-way center and we probably could have kept Hyman as well. I liked the signing at the time though... I think the majority of Leafland did.

The only ones really doing a "value-for-money" rating is the Athletic right now which takes into account everything from goals and points production, actual goals scored for and against while on the ice, intangibles like shot blocking and faceoff% as well as things like Powerplay and PK efficiency and penalty differential....and yea, they also take into account advanced stats like scoring chance differentials, etc...

Currently, Tavares has the following stats there:

Offensive impact: 87th percentile
Defensive Impact: 84th percentile

Market value: 8.7 million

Biggest issue: Lack of finish from either him or linemates. (On-ice finish vs. expected)

Comparable market value among centers: Braydon Point, Brady Tkachuk, Vincent Trocheck, Matt Barzal, Bo Horvat, Robert Thomas

The Athletic LOL.

 

[Schennanigans]

Really bad signing. He’s been bad. We’ve been handcuffed by this deal so bad. Lost out on so many good potential ufa’s to target and also players to target via trade. Hopefully they walk away from him after next year, he may be still worth taking at a very low cap but he may still think he’s worth 4-5m. And if that’s the case you run from him.

 

[TMLegend]

Really bad signing. He’s been bad. We’ve been handcuffed by this deal so bad. Lost out on so many good potential ufa’s to target and also players to target via trade. Hopefully they walk away from him after next year, he may be still worth taking at a very low cap but he may still think he’s worth 4-5m. And if that’s the case you run from him.

Tavares will retire a Leaf, I'm almost certain of it.

I don't think he'll give them the Giordano/Spezza discount but I expect a short term deal in the range of 3-5 mil aav on his next contract.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Tavares will retire a Leaf, I'm almost certain of it.

I don't think he'll give them the Giordano/Spezza discount but I expect a short term deal in the range of 3-5 mil aav on his next contract.

I'd be shocked if they re-sign him to any amount.

 

[LeafGrief]

They should load manage him next year. When he's fresh, he's a pretty effective player, when he's not he's a 3rd liner. His body just can't handle the grind of the season any more. Sucks to spend 11m on a guy you should only use for 40 games, but we'd probably get better value out of 40 games than 75.

He should go find a new team after this contract is up, unless he wants to take a league min and pass on the C. He hasn't really done anything to deserve a well-paid farewell tour here, and we desperately need a change of Captain.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I'd be shocked if they re-sign him to any amount.

He could sign for cheap with TO if they promise him money working for the organization after.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I'd be shocked if they re-sign him to any amount.

Get ready, because they will, likely at the price point the poster said. Why?

Not because he deserves it, or because he's productive, or because he's a winner or anything like that but because the storyline would be interpreted in Toronto as the team being a bunch of mean bullies if they didn't. You know and I know mean bullies are not allowed in Toronto.