How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[Dekes For Days]

But Tavares has never been a problem. And having him on the team shouldn't have prevented management from fixing the defense.

And it didn't! Added a top D that same year, and made a lot of changes over the next couple years to become a good defensive team.

 

[IPS]

I'm happy to admit that the D needed work, and that C was not a position of weakness. A good team could have been built without Tavares.

But an opportunity to bring in a premier player doesn't come often. Bringing in Tavares wasn't some death knell. I'd argue that the real fault was how absolutely terrible Barrie was, and the bad ride on the goalie carousel since Freddy.

Before Tavares was signed nobody was going around saying the Leafs are weak at C, they claimed it was a strength if anything.

LIke you said - the signing was made because it was a high profile UFA who they were able to acquire, absolutely zero experts or analysts claimed the signing was done to fix a weakness at center. Anybody with half a brainstem could obviously see that the D was a bigger need to address, but there obviously wasn't any Tavares level solution on UFA to solve it.

 

[TheShape]

My issue at the time of the signing was the 11m cap hit and ripple effect it was 100% going to cause with our pending RFA's. 9.5m should've been the cutoff, I don't really care that San Jose (apparently) had tabled a 12-13m offer. If JT wanted to uproot his family to the West coast, so be it.

It would've set a standard for future contract negotiations and put us in our better place. But MLSE couldn't help themselves, too much of a feel good story. I never put the Tavares signing on Dubas really, higher ups wanted JT here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'm happy to admit that the D needed work, and that C was not a position of weakness. A good team could have been built without Tavares.

But an opportunity to bring in a premier player doesn't come often. Bringing in Tavares wasn't some death knell. I'd argue that the real fault was how absolutely terrible Barrie was, and the bad ride on the goalie carousel since Freddy.

I'm not some Dubas fanboy. I don't like a lot of moves this team has made, from JFJ to Tre. But Tavares has never been a problem. And having him on the team shouldn't have prevented management from fixing the defense.

Tavares was not the problem. Paying top 1C money for a 2C we really didn't need when it could have been better spent was the problem. The resulting need to pay more to better players exascerbated the issue.

 

[rielledup]

Sucks that he couldn't hold on for one more year being a ppg player so that we could have the big 4 with Nylander playing on a different level than in the past. Now it's just a big 3.

 

[cyris]

My issue at the time of the signing was the 11m cap hit and ripple effect it was 100% going to cause with our pending RFA's. 9.5m should've been the cutoff, I don't really care that San Jose (apparently) had tabled a 12-13m offer. If JT wanted to uproot his family to the West coast, so be it.

It would've set a standard for future contract negotiations and put us in our better place. But MLSE couldn't help themselves, too much of a feel good story. I never put the Tavares signing on Dubas really, higher ups wanted JT here.

I think some of the ripple effect talk is over blown.
Matthews was always going to be looking for around 11m per season. It was right between the 12.5 that McDavid got and the 10 that Eichel got. He had been better that Jack but not as good as Connor so it was a natural landing spot for him. Once he signed that in hindsight you could see Marner’s case he deserved similar money. He had put up more points in 2 of the 3 seasons on their ELCs.

Mistakes were obviously made by the previous 2 regimes here that could have mitigated some of those problems. Like not offering Marner the standard bonuses in his ELC or not putting in a harder push to get him signed the previous summer.

 

[ToneDog]

Tavares was not the problem. Paying top 1C money for a 2C we really didn't need when it could have been better spent was the problem. The resulting need to pay more to better players exascerbated the issue.

And then what do you do when your #2C is suspended 2x and you force a trade? The problem was that they did not turn Kadri into a top dman. In hindsight they also should have signed Tanev instead of Brodie because another soft dman should not have been the target.

 

[hotpaws]

Mistakes were obviously made by the previous 2 regimes here that could have mitigated some of those problems. Like not offering Marner the standard bonuses in his ELC or not putting in a harder push to get him signed the previous summer.

Marner did get one set of bonuses , he just wasn't offered the second set which he would have only earned in his final year i've read . So basically he lost out on about 2m total which even if he wanted to make them back would have only been about 300k per yr over the life of his 2nd deal .

Also he wasn't eligible to re-sign until Dubas was promoted but it was Dubie who was slow playing it and low balled him according to Marner's agent .

 

[DuklaNation]

Overpaid for a 2nd line C. Still 1 more year to go.

 

[hotpaws]

My issue at the time of the signing was the 11m cap hit and ripple effect it was 100% going to cause with our pending RFA's. 9.5m should've been the cutoff, I don't really care that San Jose (apparently) had tabled a 12-13m offer. If JT wanted to uproot his family to the West coast, so be it.

It would've set a standard for future contract negotiations and put us in our better place. But MLSE couldn't help themselves, too much of a feel good story. I never put the Tavares signing on Dubas really, higher ups wanted JT here.

good post except judging by how he traded for EK and at a 10m cap hit who was not needed with Letang there i'm sure Dubie was leading the charge to sign JT

Dubie loves to make a big splash regardless of whether the player is a need .

 

[cyris]

Marner did get one set of bonuses , he just wasn't offered the second set which he would have only earned in his final year i've read . So basically he lost out on about 2m total which even if he wanted to make them back would have only been about 300k per yr over the life of his 2nd deal .

Also he wasn't eligible to re-sign until Dubas was promoted but it was Dubie who was slow playing it and low balled him according to Marner's agent .

Well yeah I wasn’t trying to let Dubas off the hook. He was the guy that failed to resign him earlier when it likely would have been cheaper.
And for Marner I don’t think it was as much the money for the performance bonuses as it was the principle of it. Nylander got them because he signed before Lou came in and Matthews got them because he was the 1st overall pick and told them he wouldn’t sign without them.

 

[TheShape]

good post except judging by how he traded for EK and at a 10m cap hit who was not needed with Letang there i'm sure Dubie was leading the charge to sign JT

Dubie loves to make a big splash regardless of whether the player is a need .

Oh I’m not suggesting Dubas was resisting the signing by any means. My point was more so that regardless of who the GM was, Tavares was a layup signing here provided we showed the money.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think some of the ripple effect talk is over blown.

All of it is. Tavares' contract had zero impact.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And then what do you do when your #2C is suspended 2x and you force a trade? The problem was that they did not turn Kadri into a top dman. In hindsight they also should have signed Tanev instead of Brodie because another soft dman should not have been the target.

Kadri, Bozak, and Nylander were all available to play centre. We may even have had Moore still, and Komarov could also play C.

JT was likely an upgrade on most, but not at that price when we needed other things more.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Tavares is fine. He's a massive cap hit but that's about to run out.

Morgan should have gotten the C back then and even now.

I'd have JT back but on a leauge minumum deal or not far off that.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

And then what do you do when your #2C is suspended 2x and you force a trade? The problem was that they did not turn Kadri into a top dman. In hindsight they also should have signed Tanev instead of Brodie because another soft dman should not have been the target.

Ok I'm calling BS here.

You want Kadri back at the deal he's on?

I have a Leafs "sweater" , when I wear it out in public I've had people say "nice Matthews jersey"

And then I have to dissapoint them, and basically tell them they're dislexic? That's a Kadri jersey. Love the guy.

Not a chance I'd pay him that kind of money.

 

[TheShape]

I think some of the ripple effect talk is over blown.
Matthews was always going to be looking for around 11m per season. It was right between the 12.5 that McDavid got and the 10 that Eichel got. He had been better that Jack but not as good as Connor so it was a natural landing spot for him. Once he signed that in hindsight you could see Marner’s case he deserved similar money. He had put up more points in 2 of the 3 seasons on their ELCs.

Mistakes were obviously made by the previous 2 regimes here that could have mitigated some of those problems. Like not offering Marner the standard bonuses in his ELC or not putting in a harder push to get him signed the previous summer.

Difference being McDavid and Eichel signed for 8 year max deals, they gave their teams 3 additional seasons of term. Matthews' cap hit should've been less if he was only committing 5 years. Tavares didn't really give us some sort of deal, at that point there was no reason for Matthews and Marner to do the same.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kadri, Bozak, and Nylander were all available to play centre. We may even have had Moore still, and Komarov could also play C.

Bozak was gone to St Louis. Nylander was a winger. Komarov was a winger, and was gone to the NYI after finishing as a healthy scratch here. Moore retired.
Kadri was "available"... until you need him most. Then you get stuck with a late 30s rental Plekanec as your 2nd line center in the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

Ok I'm calling BS here.

You want Kadri back at the deal he's on?

I have a Leafs "sweater" , when I wear it out in public I've had people say "nice Matthews jersey"

And then I have to dissapoint them, and basically tell them they're dislexic? That's a Kadri jersey. Love the guy.

Not a chance I'd pay him that kind of money.

B.S?? How? Never said anything about keeping Kadri. My point was once you signed Tavares, Kadri was the trade chip to get you a dman but Dubas/Shanny blew it by trading for 1 year of a redundant dman who was afraid of his own shadow and had no clue how to play in his end and a soft, vanilla winger.

 

[Bomber0104]

Easily the biggest deadweight on the team cap-wise, followed closely by Brodie.

Brodie will be gone soon but it’s going to be a brutal final year lugging around a $11M third line centre.

 

[ER89]

this dude is so f***ing ass.

If a guy like ROR can figure out a different style with his speed gone JT needs to figure it out. He doesn't score and is a defensive liability.

Trash player trash captain for 11+m

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

B.S?? How? Never said anything about keeping Kadri. My point was once you signed Tavares, Kadri was the trade chip to get you a dman but Dubas/Shanny blew it by trading for 1 year of a redundant dman who was afraid of his own shadow and had no clue how to play in his end and a soft, vanilla winger.

Kadri got shipped out on his sweetheart hometown deal (and he would have signed another) because the NHL could stop f***ing suspending him for the same shit the other team was doing.

End of story.

All of it is. Tavares' contract had zero impact.

Oh no. Not true.

The Maple Leafs organization have a crystal ball, dating back to 1967 woulnd't you know?

McDavid.....................

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

B.S?? How? Never said anything about keeping Kadri. My point was once you signed Tavares, Kadri was the trade chip to get you a dman but Dubas/Shanny blew it by trading for 1 year of a redundant dman who was afraid of his own shadow and had no clue how to play in his end and a soft, vanilla winger.

You have a short term memory. Nothing wrong with that btw. I'm an elephant.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I've been saying it for a year or so that this guys f***ing ass

Its gonna be a good day for maple leafs hockey when this turd retires. I know we are gonna sign him back to be an expensive ChatGPT clone playing 3rd line

once he retires I won't ever have to watch him again

 

[HellasLEAF]

Easily the biggest deadweight on the team cap-wise, followed closely by Brodie.

Brodie will be gone soon but it’s going to be a brutal final year lugging around a $11M third line centre.

It will be a long, long 1.5 seasons. Lugging is the correct word.