How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

Rare Jewel

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Jan 11, 2007
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We're not talking about July 2018 to the following spring. It's about the tax year 2018, which he was in the U.S. for the majority of.
Well, the two issues are conflated because it's an issue of the overall structure of how Tavares is paid. Having 80% of your $77m contract paid in "bonuses" to avoid the tax implications shouldn't fly.

Obviously, he spent more time prior to July 1st, 2018 in the state of NY, but it's still greasy and underhanded.
 

CDN24

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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We're not talking about July 2018 to the following spring. It's about the tax year 2018, which he was in the U.S. for the majority of.
Doesn't matter, the number of days is the second test of residency.

The first test - where are you resident on December 31 2018. If its Canada you pay tax on your worldwide income for all of 2018. That includes salary paid by leafs, signing bonus and even the 2018 portion of his 2017-18 contract with the Islanders. Then the tax treaty with US ensures you get credit for any tax already paid in US so not double taxed. (i.e Cdn tax bill is 5M but I paid 3.5M already in US, then I only pay the additional 1.5M here)

The number of days test applies to someone like Matthews who as an American and can main sufficient ties to US to be considered an American resident (stronger ties to US) so not resident in Canada on December 31. Despite not meeting the 1st test, he would be a deemed resident of Canada if he spent more than 183 days in Canada in the calender year and subject to same taxed on world=wide income.

For JT no days not relevant, it is was he resident on Dec 31. Did he own a home here?, did he work here? have cdn bank accts investments, cdn drivers license health card etc. if yes a long with being born here he is probably resident here and will likely lose this case.

Where JT may have really screwed himself is if he paid tax in US on the 15M bonus already, he may not be able to amend that return to not declare it there at this late stage. he may not get the FTC for what he paid already to offset cdn tax as in CRA's view its not foreign income- it was earned here.

I used to work with a tax practioner who had an expression when we were too aggressive on our tax planning- Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered. JT went whole Hog on this one I think

Edit: if he was previously a resident of The US while there its possible that he can be resident of Canada for a part of the year. I.e if the tests say resident in Canada on Dec 31 then he is taxed on worldwide income earned after the date he became resident of Canada. That date may be a point of legal argument. For what is worth here is a summary of how residence is determined in layman terms

Generally, an individual is resident in Canada for tax purposes if there is a continuing relationship between the individual and Canada. In determining an individual's residence, all relevant facts must be considered. Residential ties of particular significance include the maintenance of a dwelling place available for the individual's occupation and the residence of the individual's spouse and dependants. Ordinarily, individuals are considered to be resident where they maintain a fixed abode for themselves and their families. Secondary factors include social and business ties and personal property, such as memberships in clubs and religious organisations, driver's licences, vehicle registration, and medical insurance coverage.
 
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Divine

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Dec 18, 2010
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It’s interesting that due to the filling we know the Sharks offer to Tavares


The offer wasn't his highest, according to the filing. It states that the "marquee" player got considerable interest from an array of teams, including the San Jose Sharks, Boston Bruins, Tampa Bay Lightning and Dallas Stars. Ultimately, Tavares chose his hometown team, with the filing identifying the signing bonus as an "integral" part of the player's decision.

“The signing bonus was consideration for Tavares — a uniquely skilled and sought-after unrestricted free agent — committing to the seven-year Contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs,” it reads. "He rejected higher-paying offers from other teams, including a seven-year, $91 million offer from the San Jose Sharks."

So SJ offered him 13M x 7.

I hope this dispels the false narrative on these boards and from the NHL that players don’t care about taxes.

Parity is of paramount importance to the NHL only when it favours American teams.

 

Nineteen67

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If they rule the bonus is considered salary and subjected to the higher taxation do the individual states then audit every hockey player to see if they owe more money? California would be the first to try.
 

boredmale

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So I could be wrong but Tavares wants to claim the 15M dollar bonus he signed shouldn't be taxed

When I worked in the States for 1 year, I got taxed in the States first then Canada came and took the difference of what I would pay in Canada minus all the money I gave the States. So as an Islanders fan I say Screw Tavares, pay your taxes one way or another(Although I do think he could argue he lived there more than 5 years, but if that is the case then he should be taxed in NY State for that year)

As an Islanders fan I say that was Toronto money and should be paid in Canada(although he shouldn't have to pay a cent he made while the Islanders were paying him)
 
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mouser

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Jul 13, 2006
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So I could be wrong but Tavares wants to claim the 15M dollar bonus he signed shouldn't be taxed

When I worked in the States for 1 year, I got taxed in the States first then Canada came and took the difference of what I would pay in Canada minus all the money I gave the States. So as an Islanders fan I say Screw Tavares, pay your taxes one way or another(Although I do think he could argue he lived there more than 5 years, but if that is the case then he should be taxed in NY State for that year)

As an Islanders fan I say that was Toronto money and should be paid in Canada(although he shouldn't have to pay a cent he made while the Islanders were paying him)

Tavares is claiming he was a resident of New York in 2018 (for tax residency purposes) and should owe 15% of his 2018 signing bonus to Canada, per the Canada<>US tax treaty. He would still owe 2018 US Federal and New York State taxes, offset by foreign tax credits for the 15% paid to Canada.
 

GoonieFace

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boredmale

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Tavares is claiming he was a resident of New York in 2018 (for tax residency purposes) and should owe 15% of his 2018 signing bonus to Canada, per the Canada<>US tax treaty. He would still owe 2018 US Federal and New York State taxes, offset by foreign tax credits for the 15% paid to Canada.

K then I would go with whatever the Islanders paid him should be paid in US/NY and whatever the Leafs paid him should be paid in Canada/Ontario(both minus offsets)

All that being said if Tavares paid the full tax rate(I believe NY State is like 45% Fed/State while Canada is like 53%) in the US for that 15M, then he should only be charged the offset(8%) in Canada
 

authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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Crazy to think Tavares could’ve been making almost as much as Matthews is now 6 years ago. Imagine if Toronto signed him to that contract? :laugh:
 

Divine

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K then I would go with whatever the Islanders paid him should be paid in US/NY and whatever the Leafs paid him should be paid in Canada/Ontario(both minus offsets)

All that being said if Tavares paid the full tax rate(I believe NY State is like 45% Fed/State while Canada is like 53%) in the US for that 15M, then he should only be charged the offset(8%) in Canada

The issue is how it's calculated. The contract is 2018-2019. He spent the majority of 2018 in NY and paid taxes there.

Obviously he's aware of the Canadian tax rate as the appeal is only for 2018 and not for the rest of his contract.
 

mouser

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K then I would go with whatever the Islanders paid him should be paid in US/NY and whatever the Leafs paid him should be paid in Canada/Ontario(both minus offsets)

All that being said if Tavares paid the full tax rate(I believe NY State is like 45% Fed/State while Canada is like 53%) in the US for that 15M, then he should only be charged the offset(8%) in Canada

It all revolves around Tavares legal residency for tax purposes, specially regarding the 2018 signing bonus. If he doesn’t have Canadian tax residency for 2018 then he shouldn’t be charged the 8% offset. The CRA appears to be claiming the bonus should be taxed fully as Tavares being a 2018 Canadian resident (again, for tax residency purposes).

If the CRA prevails then Tavares would have to pay the additional Canadian taxes and re-file his U.S. taxes to claim a foreign tax credit refund. Normally the U.S. requires amended tax forms be filed within three years, but I think they have a 10 year exception for amended refunds involving a change to foreign tax credits or deductions.** No idea what New York’s cutoff is for amended returns.


**I am not a tax attorney, could easily be mistaken on the cutoff deadlines.
 

MK78

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Apr 8, 2023
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Heh Tavares is fighting for $8M. You can only wonder what Ohtani is screwing US/Cali on the deferred money.
 

hotpaws

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Nov 21, 2009
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It’s interesting that due to the filling we know the Sharks offer to Tavares




So SJ offered him 13M x 7.

I hope this dispels the false narrative on these boards and from the NHL that players don’t care about taxes.

Parity is of paramount importance to the NHL only when it favours American teams.


no idea why what other teams may have offered would have any relevance to what he owes in taxes ?

is he looking for sympathy or are his reps trying to work some weird angle where sports fans will put pressure on the CRA to give Johnny a pass out of fear that players won't stay/sign in Canada
 

Divine

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Dec 18, 2010
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no idea why what other teams may have offered would have any relevance to what he owes in taxes ?

is he looking for sympathy or are his reps trying to work some weird angle where sports fans will put pressure on the CRA to give Johnny a pass out of fear that players won't stay/sign in Canada

It's pretty clear why it was mentioned if you bothered to read the article... or even the part I quoted.

No reason to jump to radical conclusions when the explanation is right in the 3 sentences you refused to read. He mentions he took less money and the signing bonus was integral to him doing so.

You may be unaware that signing bonuses get taxed differently. Hence why Tavares is not fighting the CRA for the taxes on the other 5 years he has since eclipsed on his contract.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
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It's pretty clear why it was mentioned if you bothered to read the article... or even the part I quoted.

No reason to jump to radical conclusions when the explanation is right in the 3 sentences you refused to read. He mentions he took less money and the signing bonus was integral to him doing so.

You may be unaware that signing bonuses get taxed differently. Hence why Tavares is not fighting the CRA for the taxes on the other 5 years he has since eclipsed on his contract.
yes i did read it and i'll ask again , what does

''Tavares chose his hometown team, with the filing identifying the signing bonus as an "integral" part of the player's decision''

''The signing bonus was consideration for Tavares — a uniquely skilled and sought-after unrestricted free agent — committing to the seven-year Contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs,” it reads. "He rejected higher-paying offers from other teams, including a seven-year, $91 million offer from the San Jose Sharks."


have to do with what he owes in taxes ?
 

Divine

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Dec 18, 2010
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yes i did read it and i'll ask again , what does

''Tavares chose his hometown team, with the filing identifying the signing bonus as an "integral" part of the player's decision''

''The signing bonus was consideration for Tavares — a uniquely skilled and sought-after unrestricted free agent — committing to the seven-year Contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs,” it reads. "He rejected higher-paying offers from other teams, including a seven-year, $91 million offer from the San Jose Sharks."


have to do with what he owes in taxes ?

Signing bonuses are taxed differently. The CRA is not viewing it as a signing bonus for 2018 tax purposes. That's the entire argument.

Tavares is taxed at a lower rate every subsequent year due to the signing bonus which the CRA does not seem to have issue with.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
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Signing bonuses are taxed differently. The CRA is not viewing it as a signing bonus for 2018 tax purposes. That's the entire argument.

Tavares is taxed at a lower rate every subsequent year due to the signing bonus which the CRA does not seem to have issue with.
for the third time and i'll try to make it clearer

i understand signing bonuses are taxed differently and i understand what both sides are arguing

my point is

-why he signed here
-what other teams may have offered

has nothing to do with where he should pay his taxes and
 

Divine

Registered User
Dec 18, 2010
19,484
13,768
for the third time and i'll try to make it clearer

i understand signing bonuses are taxed differently and i understand what both sides are arguing

my point is

-why he signed here
-what other teams may have offered

has nothing to do with where he should pay his taxes and

You obviously struggle to understand the flow of the argument. There is a reason it was mentioned and I can clearly understand it.

I'll leave it at that.
 
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Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Well, the two issues are conflated because it's an issue of the overall structure of how Tavares is paid. Having 80% of your $77m contract paid in "bonuses" to avoid the tax implications shouldn't fly. Obviously, he spent more time prior to July 1st, 2018 in the state of NY, but it's still greasy and underhanded.
He spent more time in the U.S. in the entire tax year 2018, not just prior to July 1st. It's not greasy or underhanded. He's still paying taxes. There's just a disagreement on how much he owes to who for that one year, and it will be settled by courts. I think high earners should be taxed much higher, but that's up to citizens to vote for. I don't know why we're blaming Tavares for the system that exists.
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
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You obviously struggle to understand the flow of the argument. The signing bonus was consideration for Tavares — a uniquely skilled and sought-after unrestricted free agent — committing to the seven-year Contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs,” it reads. "He rejected higher-paying offers from other teams, including a seven-year, $91 million offer from the San Jose Sharks."

I'll leave it at that.
i''l try one more time

either he pays taxes in the US or in Canada based on the tax laws

why he signed here or what other teams offered has ZERO to do with where he should pay taxes and isn't part of any legal argument

there is no argument to be made that Johnny based his decision where to sign on where he would pay his taxes so he should be allowed to pick the lower tax jurisdiction
 

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