Proposal: Horvat to the Sabres

TommyDangles

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Jun 18, 2021
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Eh, that seems more of an offer that's par for the course.

Details are a little different, like having the protection scaled back or including a better fitting prospect, but this would land firmly in the "meh" category for most Canucks fans.
A 2023 1st in a great draft that will likely be in the 11-14 range. If Sabres end up with a top 10 pick you get an unprotected Sabres 1st round pick.

A high 2nd in a great draft

A pretty good prospect

That would be an insane haul for a rental. Terrible for the Sabres.
 

Peter Griffin

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A 2023 1st in a great draft that will likely be in the 11-14 range. If Sabres end up with a top 10 pick you get an unprotected Sabres 1st round pick.

A high 2nd in a great draft

A pretty good prospect

That would be an insane haul for a rental. Terrible for the Sabres.
Myers is also involved in that deal and while HF likely views him as a pure cap dump, I don't think the actual GM's do. Myers' with some level of retention is a + asset.
 
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Cogburn

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A 2023 1st in a great draft that will likely be in the 11-14 range. If Sabres end up with a top 10 pick you get an unprotected Sabres 1st round pick.

A high 2nd in a great draft

A pretty good prospect

That would be an insane haul for a rental. Terrible for the Sabres.
Currently Buffalo, with games in hand, is 6th from the back. Horvat will help that, and I have to imagine the Sabres would do better anyway, but that very easily could bump the pick until next year, or to a second, or to a lower pick acquired later, or what ever the protection dictates. Next year doesn't have the hype around it that this year does and a lower pick (a later first or a second) doesn't really pop either.

A high second (or the highest of three possible) is fine as a tertiary piece, agreed.

Rosen is a tiny (in terms of weight) winger, which we don't need. Yes, yes, any prospect could help, but comparing him to Lambert or Heinola from Winnipeg, or Newhook from Colorado, or Lysell, or Niemela, or any number of Kings or Hurricanes or Wild or Capitals prospects, or so many other prospects that have been thrown around, Rosen is nothing special. We also have our two top prospects, and two top young players, playing wing in Klimovich and Lekkerimaki, and Podkolzin and Hoglander, respectively.

Considering his (unsustainable) trajectory and what past rentals have gone for, I don't think this is an insane haul. Chiarot got a first, a third and a prospect last year. Copp got a first, a second, Barron and a 5th last year. Giroux got a first, a third and Tippett. Lindholm got a lesser prospect, a first and two seconds. Giordano got a third and two seconds. Kuemper got a first, a third and Timmins. All of these guys were rentals at the time of acquisition. It might be a bad trade for Buffalo, but from a Canucks standpoint its very bland.

Myers being involved is also going to affect the return, I'd argue in our favor, especially at half retained for both players.
 

TommyDangles

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Jun 18, 2021
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Currently Buffalo, with games in hand, is 6th from the back. Horvat will help that, and I have to imagine the Sabres would do better anyway, but that very easily could bump the pick until next year, or to a second, or to a lower pick acquired later, or what ever the protection dictates. Next year doesn't have the hype around it that this year does and a lower pick (a later first or a second) doesn't really pop either.

A high second (or the highest of three possible) is fine as a tertiary piece, agreed.

Rosen is a tiny (in terms of weight) winger, which we don't need. Yes, yes, any prospect could help, but comparing him to Lambert or Heinola from Winnipeg, or Newhook from Colorado, or Lysell, or Niemela, or any number of Kings or Hurricanes or Wild or Capitals prospects, or so many other prospects that have been thrown around, Rosen is nothing special. We also have our two top prospects, and two top young players, playing wing in Klimovich and Lekkerimaki, and Podkolzin and Hoglander, respectively.

Considering his (unsustainable) trajectory and what past rentals have gone for, I don't think this is an insane haul. Chiarot got a first, a third and a prospect last year. Copp got a first, a second, Barron and a 5th last year. Giroux got a first, a third and Tippett. Lindholm got a lesser prospect, a first and two seconds. Giordano got a third and two seconds. Kuemper got a first, a third and Timmins. All of these guys were rentals at the time of acquisition. It might be a bad trade for Buffalo, but from a Canucks standpoint its very bland.

Myers being involved is also going to affect the return, I'd argue in our favor, especially at half retained for both players.
Buffalo has some big issues defensively & goaltending wise. I don't think Horvat is really changing much standing wise for them. A pick in the 11-14 range is much more valuable than a mid / late 20s pick from Carolina or Boston.

I think you're underrating Rosen quite a bit. He's on the level of Lysell. He's not a "nothing special" prospect. Pretty close to PPG in the AHL as a 19 year old.

There is no mention of retention. Buffalo wouldn't need any retention. They have plenty of space.

Myers is worth what with no retention? A 3rd?
 

Sabresruletheschool

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Jul 16, 2012
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Buffalo has some big issues defensively & goaltending wise. I don't think Horvat is really changing much standing wise for them. A pick in the 11-14 range is much more valuable than a mid / late 20s pick from Carolina or Boston.

I think you're underrating Rosen quite a bit. He's on the level of Lysell. He's not a "nothing special" prospect. Pretty close to PPG in the AHL as a 19 year old.

There is no mention of retention. Buffalo wouldn't need any retention. They have plenty of space.

Myers is worth what with no retention? A 3rd?
Came here to say why not just trade Myers to Buffalo for a third and call it a day.
 

Fjordy

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Buffalo has some big issues defensively & goaltending wise
In fact, we have problems everywhere. We were 4-1 at the start of the season, but then defensively, our top defensive D of the first pair Samuelsson got injured, he playing physical, blocking shots and clearing the crease. Then our RD was injured in Lyubushkin, he was out for a short time and returned, but he continues to play with an injury and is simply not so good because of this, then Jokiharju got injured, he played in the second pair with Power. We simply had no one to replace these players and for some reason our GM decided to sign small defenders for the depth of defense, who can do nothing at least 50% like Samuelsson.

Goaltenders are unstable, but the defense was terrible because there were a lot of AHL players on defense who couldn't handle it.

We also need help in attack, because our forwards play poorly in defense, not all, but many, there are also many young forwards, forwards of the same type who do little. Horvat would be the perfect pickup, it would give the pivot in the center that we lack.
 

TommyDangles

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Jun 18, 2021
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We also need help in attack, because our forwards play poorly in defense, not all, but many, there are also many young forwards, forwards of the same type who do little. Horvat would be the perfect pickup, it would give the pivot in the center that we lack.
I don't really see an issue with your centers. Tage & Cozens are a solid 1C / 2C. The issue seems to more be the Olofsson, Mittelstadt, Hinostroza of the lineup. Getting Cozens a better winger would probably be the better move.
 

Boondock

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Feb 6, 2009
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The whole idea of Horvat to the Sabres is worrisome. Horvats having a career year and needs a contract and if Buffalo trades for him, they're going to be obligated to sign him. I just don't want to see Buffalo give some albatross nine or ten million dollar contract to Horvat until he's 35 who's probably going to be a fifty point 2c.
This isn't a concern for Buffalo. I don't see any scenario where Horvat signs long term with the Sabres. If there is no deal in Van, Horvat will go to a team that has a chance at a cup. The only franchise that might be worse than Vancouver over the past 50 years is Buffalo.
 

Cogburn

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Buffalo has some big issues defensively & goaltending wise. I don't think Horvat is really changing much standing wise for them. A pick in the 11-14 range is much more valuable than a mid / late 20s pick from Carolina or Boston.

I think you're underrating Rosen quite a bit. He's on the level of Lysell. He's not a "nothing special" prospect. Pretty close to PPG in the AHL as a 19 year old.

There is no mention of retention. Buffalo wouldn't need any retention. They have plenty of space.

Myers is worth what with no retention? A 3rd?
Yes, and a prospect that isn't of similar profile to what we already possess can be an offset for this.

Lysell is exactly that, a comparable prospect that is also available. My point wasn't to rag on Rosen, more that he isn't an exclusive tier or style prospect to what else is on offer, and that an undersized offensively talented winger isn't a burning need for us.

Retention isn't necessary for Buffalo, but is zero problem for the Canucks, so salary doesn't limit us the same way as it might other teams. It was in the original trade proposal though, so that is why it was mentioned.

I'd probably take a third for Myers if we were in sell mode and had another trade pending on moving his salary, but that would be a quick "sell now" kind of move. Schmidt and Hamonic (right side players with term and significant cap hit and modest play) both got us a third last year, Dermott cost us a third, and well our play isn't good, it's worse when Myers has been out of the line up, so I'd like to think he is worth more then that.

...We were 4-1 at the start of the season...
Show off.
 

Fjordy

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I don't really see an issue with your centers. Tage & Cozens are a solid 1C / 2C. The issue seems to more be the Olofsson, Mittelstadt, Hinostroza of the lineup. Getting Cozens a better winger would probably be the better move.
Cozens is not there yet and to be honest he could play on the wing very well, when he played there he was great. So far he could play 3C behind Horvat or on Horvath's wing, he's a decent hound, but he can't finish. Yes, I agree that Olofsson is not doing much and we need a different type of player. We are the softest team in the NHL, the least hits, we need physical forwards on the wings of the same Mittelstadt, who can be competent in defense.

Show off.
Come on, we start like this every year, but then November comes and we tank again. :laugh:
 

AHLdepth

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Feb 17, 2020
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I don't really see an issue with your centers. Tage & Cozens are a solid 1C / 2C. The issue seems to more be the Olofsson, Mittelstadt, Hinostroza of the lineup. Getting Cozens a better winger would probably be the better move.
Well we have those! Garland for a couple 2nds?
 

Cogburn

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Come on, we start like this every year, but then November comes and we tank again. :laugh:
And he just keeps rubbing it in!

We start bad, then make a mad dash to 10th in the conference and secure a garbage draft spot relative to how bad the team is. I wish we started hot and fell apart.
 
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dkollidas

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Nov 18, 2010
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not that I think Buffalo would do it, but it’d have to be something like…

RD- H. Jokhiharju
C - C. Mittelstadt
C -N. Ostlund
RW- V. Olofsson or 2024 1st Round Pick
 

Jimmybarndoor2

Registered User
Jul 24, 2021
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not that I think Buffalo would do it, but it’d have to be something like…

RD- H. Jokhiharju
C - C. Mittelstadt
C -N. Ostlund
RW- V. Olofsson or 2024 1st Round Pick
Ha ha
More than Eichel
Haha
For a rental
From a team that’s not in the playoff

Buffalo passes
 
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tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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If the Sabres aren't doing that it's because they are not buying which is fair.

Horvat absolutely has that value. Lesser players have fetched at least a 1st come Deadline.

Lesser players fetch late 1sts all the time. The Sabres 1st isn't going to be late.
There's a whole lot of difference in value between pick 10 and pick 30.
 

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