HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Preliminary Discussion Thread

How many goalies should make the final list?

  • Final list of 60, Round 1 list submission of 80

    Votes: 21 75.0%
  • Final list of 80, Round 1 list submission of 100

    Votes: 7 25.0%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

jigglysquishy

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I walked into this thinking there's no way MAF would end up on my list. But as I get to the 70+ range I'm really strapped for names. I look at guys, whether resume or tape or stats, and find a lot not to like. As much as his playoff warts stick out to me the consistency and longevity makes him hard to leave out completely.

I think he ends up near the end of my list.
 

Michael Farkas

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I expect Fleury to make my list fairly comfortably.

I guess that brings up an interesting question though because I do understand why people can dislike Fleury...it's plainly obvious and valid. I know he's not there yet, but folks around the game talk about it like it's a lock...but given how few goalies there are in the HOF...how many HOFers are NOT gonna make your lists?
 

Dennis Bonvie

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I walked into this thinking there's no way MAF would end up on my list. But as I get to the 70+ range I'm really strapped for names. I look at guys, whether resume or tape or stats, and find a lot not to like. As much as his playoff warts stick out to me the consistency and longevity makes him hard to leave out completely.

I think he ends up near the end of my list.

The guy has more wins in the NHL than anyone but Brodeur.

And more playoff wins than anyone but Brodeur & Roy.

Should be able to find room on the list for him.
 
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Doctor No

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If this list is accurate up until 2016, then I have everyone. Looking at the guys to get inducted afterwards, I have everyone too.

Only 38 goalies total. Easy to fit on a top 80.

Apologies for that - I get stuck on side projects (currently going through the NHL's now-official game-by-game statistics and finding all of the provable errors - I'm on F (specifically Wade Flaherty) and have already found more than forty). This will impact the official NHL totals - it's not going to put anyone in the HHOF or anything, but details matter and it's important.

Anyhow, the list is now updated through 2024, and includes one name that you may or may not be thinking of, but it's an interesting one.
 

MadArcand

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Before I start forgetting stuff...

My list is being compiled similar to how I tier a draft list. I'm generally using prominence and recognition to cut corners on how many goalies I have to watch... (like, I don't have to go back and watch Jocelyn Thibaut, for instance, because at some point or another he would have stumbled over some recognition at some point, right?)

So, I have guys in A, B, C+, C, W, NI categories - these are heavily talent based, but I also try to take into account things that I would know at the time - like size. But also things that I wouldn't have known like injury propensity or just availability in general...plus, I try to factor in adaptability/scalability too).

My "A" list is about five names long right now. I have 8 guys on my "B" list. The only one that played before 1990 (I'm working my way backwards) is Billy Smith

I don't think anyone in the post-expansion dregs is gonna catch him either. He's basically a lesser Martin Brodeur. Excellent read of the game, very efficient, stickhandling, plus skating...basically everything you could ask for ever...but especially in this era, where goaltending is very erratic.

I don't have a C+ guy from this era...yet.

In the "C" group, I've added (alphabetically and tentatively)...
Tom Barrasso
Dan Bouchard
Grant Fuhr
Mike Vernon

Barrasso has holes, but there's definitely talent there. He's agile, he has reflexes, he has puck playing ability. He can play. He certainly won't be above Marc-Andre Fleury for me.

Dan Bouchard is 80's Olaf Kolzig. Big and very strong positionally...good read on the game. Doesn't offer a big "plus". He was very unfortunate to play for the teams he did with the style he was. If he was switched with Roy, we still know and love Roy, but Bouchard would have made our top 40 list last time I think.

Grant Fuhr...it's really inconsistent and I don't like inconsistent-ness...he's at least one tier below Billy Smith, maybe two. It's time to separate them. I'm struggling to figure out who I like more between Fuhr and Vernon actually. I think they need to be closer together and they can both leave Smith alone.

No interest: Ron Hextall, Andy Moog, and I'm probably another game away from calling quits on Rejean Lemelin too. Pucks go through those guys, varying skating ability, lackluster game/shooter awareness. None of these guys should be on lists in my opinion.
Do you plan to give Sean Burke a look? I'd love to see a scouting report from you.:laugh:
 
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Michael Farkas

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Do you plan to give Sean Burke a look? I'd love to see a scouting report from you.:laugh:
I do now. Added to shortlist. I'm thinking he's going to be in the Bouchard/Kolzig zone.

What do W and NI stand for?
W typically means "watchlist" for me, meaning a player I don't think is worth a draft pick, but maybe keep him on the list for a future draft or as an UDFA. In this case, W = weak interest.

NI = No interest
 
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overpass

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Seth Martin
  • The best senior amateur goaltender in Canada for over a decade.
  • An excellent international performer, considered the best international goaltender in the 60s by most Europeans.
  • In demand by the NHL and played well in his brief time
Senior amateur hockey
Martin was born in the small community of Rossland, BC, located in the mountains of south central British Columbia. He played goalie for over a decade with the famous amateur club Trail Smoke Eaters of the WIHL, based in Trail, BC, which is 6 miles from Rossland. Trail's economy has always been based around the Teck-Cominco lead-zinc smelter. It had a population of 12,000 in 1951, which has declined to under 8,000 today. Martin's day job was as a firefighter.

The Smoke Eaters had a proud history, having won the 1938 Allan Cup and the 1939 World Championships. And, with Martin in goal, they won the 1961 World Championships and the 1962 Allan Cup. After over a decade playing with Trail, Martin moved on to coach and play for Nelson, Rossland, and Spokane teams in the WIHL. He won the Allan Cup with Spokane in 1970 and 1972, although the amateur competition level had probably declined by this time after the expansion of pro hockey.

Martin's GAA in WIHL play was pretty high, often around 4, but that's because the Western leagues played wide-open, offensive hockey. For example, take Trail's 7 game victory over the Saskatoon Quakers in the western final of the 1962 Allan Cup playoffs. Martin allowed exactly 6 goals in 4 of the 7 games, and Trail still won the series because they won game 6 by a 7-6 score.

International hockey
Internationally, Martin played goal for Canada in four World Championships and one Olympics. He was named the best goaltender in four of these five tournaments, a remarkable record. This included the 1961 WC, 1963 WC, 1964 Olympics, and 1966 WC. In the 1967 WC, Carl Wetzel of USA beat him out for best goaltender. Martin was the starting goalie for the 1961 Canada team that was the last Canadian amateur team to win the WC.

Martin had a 17-7-3 record in international play, with a 2.17 GAA. European hockey people in the 1960s considered Seth Martin to be the best international goalie.

NHL hockey
Martin finally agreed to play in the NHL for the St Louis Blues, after the 1967 expansion. He signed a three year, $20,000 a year contract, with a $6000 signing bonus. $20,000 was twice the NHL minimum salary of $10,000 for that season, and half of what veterans Glenn Hall and Terry Sawchuk were making. As part of his contract, Martin demanded the Blues provide him with a fully furnished house in St Louis for himself, his wife, and their four daughters. Scotty Bowman drew the assignment of getting the house ready. He was a bachelor at the time, and said furnishing that house for a woman and four girls was the hardest part of his job.

Martin played 30 regular season games at age 34, splitting time with the 36 year old Glenn Hall. Their regular season stats were nearly identical, as was their strength of schedule. Hall was the starter in the playoffs, not surprising considering his brilliant NHL career and his $40,000 salary.

Martin decided to return to amateur hockey after the one NHL season. He would have lost his 18 years of service for his fire department pension if he didn't return, and he chose the fire department, the pension, and home life over the NHL salary and lifestyle.

Video
I think there's one of Martin's games available on video. Unfortunately, it's his worst NHL game, statistically. He allowed 5 goals on 25 shots in 2 periods, including 3 goals in the first 3 minutes of the game.

His defense really let him down on those first 3 goals. But he could have been better on the 4th and 5th goal. On the 4th, he sold out to save Keon's shot from right in front, but then he was absolutely nowhere on recovering for the rebound. For the 5th goal, he came off his goalpost a little and allowed Mahovlich to score off his pad from behind the net.



Assessement
Martin's career is one of a kind, and difficult to rank.

Being the best amateur goalie for a decade in the age of pro hockey is a unique accomplishment. It's probably necessary to get Martin in contention for the list, but nobody else has a comparable amateur career. So we basically pass over his 502 regular season games in the WIHL because we don't really know what to do with them. We're giving them enough credit by considering Martin for this list.

Martin's international hockey accomplishments and reputation are his #1 selling point. If you want to include goalies from outside the North American pro system from before 1970, it's hard not to conclude that Martin was better than any of them, based on performance and on reputation. But that's only 28 games out of Martin's career, And maybe none of the pre-1970 European goalies should rank very highly. This board's top 50 non-NHL European project included 5 goalies in the 50 player list. All were born at least 9 years later than Martin, and only Vladimir Dzurilla had an international career that overlapped with Martin.

Martin's NHL career was very brief, but it's something. I hesitate to compare even save percentage across teams from the 67-68 season when you see how both goalies on each team usually had pretty similar stats. For example, all Detroit goalies were at the bottom in SV% and the leaders in SV% were both Toronto goalies followed by both Philadelphia goalies. But I think it does mean something that Martin matched all-time great Glenn Hall statistically.

It also says something about Martin's reputation in 1967 that St Louis was willing to offer good contract terms. He wasn't at the top of the salary range, but he was doing much better than the average NHL rookie, and he got a 3 year guarantee and a signing bonus as well.

To sum up,
  • Martin was the best senior amateur goalie of the professional era. Which puts him ahead of probably no other relevant players.
  • Martin was the best pre-1970 international goalie. Which puts him ahead of Viktor Konovalenko, Nikolai Pushkov, and some others who weren't going to be very high.
  • By reputation, salary, and performance, Martin was a good NHL goalie at age 34. OK, but many others have done the same.
I don't think any of those are enough on their own. If you add them up, can you get Seth Martin in the top 80? The top 60?
 
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overpass

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I learned a new word for goalie while researching Gerry McNeil's career. Un cerbère.

All through the Montreal French-language papers of the 1940s and 1950s, goalies were referred to as "le cerbère." I'm familiar with "gardien de but", which literally translates as "guardian of the goal", but "cerbère" was new to me. Apparently it's the French for Cerberus, the three-headed dog of Greek mythology who guards the gates of the underworld to prevent the dead from leaving.

Certainly a more colourful and evocative word for a guardian!


 

jigglysquishy

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In the last top goalie project the top 8 ultimately came from 3 time periods (O6, 70s, 90s). For transparency sake, I currently have these same 8 goalies as my top 8.

How unlikely is it that there's such significant time overlap? 8 goalies in only 6 birth years?

For comparison sake, a top 8 in centres will have minimal overlap. Gretzky/Lemieux a little bit, though there's significant overlap with Messier. Nobody with Beliveau. McDavid/Crosby barely. Nobody with Morenz or Nighbor. Mikita/Esposito/Clarke there is significant overlap.

Run the same exercise with wingers or d men. All other positions are much more era representative both older and newer.

Why no goalies born before 1929? Why none after 1972? To be devil's advocate, how much sense does it make for the top 8 goalies of all time to born in a 44 year window?

Does this mean we are structurally underrating a Vezina or Brimsek or Lundqvist or Price?
 

overpass

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In the last top goalie project the top 8 ultimately came from 3 time periods (O6, 70s, 90s). For transparency sake, I currently have these same 8 goalies as my top 8.

How unlikely is it that there's such significant time overlap? 8 goalies in only 6 birth years?

For comparison sake, a top 8 in centres will have minimal overlap. Gretzky/Lemieux a little bit, though there's significant overlap with Messier. Nobody with Beliveau. McDavid/Crosby barely. Nobody with Morenz or Nighbor. Mikita/Esposito/Clarke there is significant overlap.

Run the same exercise with wingers or d men. All other positions are much more era representative both older and newer.

Why no goalies born before 1929? Why none after 1972? To be devil's advocate, how much sense does it make for the top 8 goalies of all time to born in a 44 year window?

Does this mean we are structurally underrating a Vezina or Brimsek or Lundqvist or Price?

I thought about this subject with regards to the cluster of Original Six goalies born in the late 20s and early 30s.

1926 - Johnny Bower, Harry Lumley, Gerry McNeil, Al Rollins
1929 - Jacques Plante, Terry Sawchuk, Gump Worsley
1931 - Glenn Hall

And then the goalies born in the next 10 years didn't stand out as much. Until you get to the Parent-Esposito-Dryden cohort.

Did this five year cohort have an easy time breaking into the league after the war? This was my initial hypothesis but I don't think it holds up. The trio of Durnan, Broda, and Brimsek, more than a decade older, held down half the jobs until 1950. 1920-born westerners and best buds Chuck Rayner and Jim Henry filled another 1-2 spots depending on the season. So it was only Harry Lumley and Terry Sawchuk that got a starting job at a particularly young age. The rest were 23,24 or 25, and then there was Bower who didn't make it until his 30s. Worsley won the Calder at 23 but then got sent back down.

Did they basically fill all the starting jobs, keep them through inertia, and block younger and better goalies? I don't think so. There was some churn in the league. All the goalies were traded at some point, even the best. Every team had younger goalie prospects who played in training camp and the minors. Sometimes the younger goalie pushed the older one out. Lumley lost his NHL position at 30. McNeil and Rollins failed to stick past 30. Emile Francis was the same age, got a chance in his early 20s and couldn't keep it. The ones who lasted - Plante, Sawchuk, Hall, Bower, Worsley - were in demand, highly paid, and outperforming younger players into their late 30s or 40s. Expansion helped them keep going but they still played well and outperformed most of those 1932-1942s.

I have a couple of theories.

1. Goalie became a less attractive position for young players. Not that it was ever glamourous - Worsley, for one, only became a goalie as a teen because he was small and it was his only chance to go pro. But the early-mid 1950s were tough for goalies.

An article in 1953, I think, pointed out that nearly all the starting goalies had been injured that season. The game was faster and harder to track, screened shots and deflections and rebounds were the rule and not the exception. And goalies were still maskless. This article quoted several goalies saying they wouldn't want their son to play goal.

An article after Terry Sawchuk's breakdown and temporary retirement, around 1957, pointed out the mental stress that goalies played under, and noted that Bill Durnan, Frank Brimsek, and Gerry McNeil had alao retired due to nerves and stress in the past decade. Brimsek's story is not so well known but apparently he was seeing things and jumping at shadows while walking down the street, and he couldn't take it anymore.

So maybe a talented 13 year old in 1950 who would have tried playing goal in the past would turn down the chance now.

2. Maybe the increased organization of junior talent in the original 6 NHL failed at developing goalies. Maybe teams couldn't scout teenage junior goalie talent as well they could scout teenage skaters, and they narrowed the funnel too early. Which could make sense if most hockey people didn't really know goaltending. This was before goalie coaches. In that environment, maybe a broad competitive environment through the teenage years worked better than early scouting and selective opportunities.

I'll take Worsley as an example from the early O6 cohort because I've read his book. He got into the Rangers system at age 17 when they launched a new junior team in Verdun and held open tryouts. His family was poor and he couldn't afford his own equipment, so he borrowed a set from a local boys club for the tryout. There were 20 goalies at the tryout and he outplayed and outlasted them all to win the starting spot. And then he was playing juniors against Jean Beliveau, Bernie Geoffrion, and Jacques Plante, among others, and got the chance to go to the Rangers training camp and start moving up their system.

But 5-10 years later, when teenagers were being signed at age 14 or 15, maybe Worsley just gets passed over and never gets a chance with a sponsored junior team because they didn't hold those big open tryouts anymore.

3. Or it is just possible that at some point it got a lot harder to break into the NHL or even the pro minor leagues because there were so many established goalies. I didn't look at it systematically but in my look through the O6 it did seem at some point in the 50s that many graduating OHA junior goalies didn't made the pros, or at least not right away. Many went into amateur hockey instead. Maybe the lack of pro spots for young goalies choked the development of the stars of the 1960, because it's too much to expect a 21 year old to outplay a 27 year old, even if he's more talented.

I'll let others discuss other decades. Maybe every decade has its own reasons. But the position is so different, with a unique development path, and I could imagine that there has been considerable variation through the eras. We can see that today with Canadian goalie development or lack thereof.
 
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Yozhik v tumane

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I just read the article on the Top 10 International goalies on the THN website. I have a question for anyone in the know. Why were Martin and Lindmark ranked ahead of guys like Dzurilla, Kralik, and Konovalenko? I'm asking because I'm interested in the perceptions and thought processes that led to the ordering in that list.

Lindmark was named best Swedish goaltender five times. He was named top goalie at the World Championships twice, in 1981 and 1986, at tournaments where Sweden finished with silver medals. Sweden were absolutely shelled by the Soviets in 1981, but did respectably in 1986, and in 1987 with Lindmark in net played a 2-2 draw with the Soviets to win Sweden’s first international goal medal in 25 years. Alongside Pelle Lindbergh, Lindmark is generally regarded the best Swedish goaltender of the 1980s.

I do wonder however, how many Swedes would rate Lindmark above Leif “Honken” Holmqvist? I feel as if the latter tends to rank higher but I’m not sure. Holmqvist played in the 1960s through 1970s when Sweden may occasionally beat the Soviets, are pretty evenly matched with Czechoslovakia, but only got silver and bronze medals to show for it. He was names best Swedish player (any position) twice, best goaltender of one World Championship and named to the media selected all-star team of another.

I haven’t watched either player enough to tell their greatness. Both are remembered for being interesting characters to some degree. I’ve read Holmqvist’s biography, he talked about having a good view of the flow of the game from his goalie position, being extremely calm and unfazed by allowing a goal, and the importance of positioning himself right. He hated when the mask mandate came and would go out of the way to wear the most ridiculous excuse for “face protection” as further regulations eventually were rolled in. Holmqvist was invited to the Bruins training camp and according to him competed well enough against Cheevers and Ed Johnston to receive a contract offer, which he regretfully had to turn down due to pressure from the Swedish hockey federation. He remains in awe of Bobby Orr from his stint with the Bruins however.

Lindmark seems mainly remembered for his antics as opposed to world class goaltending, which I guess is unfair. The first time he was named best Swedish goalie, he played in the second tier league. I feel he’s up there with the best goaltenders in the world through the 1980s, posting respectable numbers through three Canada Cups. Alas, when you hear about Lindmark in Sweden, it’s usually about what a fun character he was. He was a heavy smoker, he was known to take a rest against his cage when the action was in the other end, he didn’t care for physical training. When with Färjestad and the trainers had the team do a long-distance run, he sprinted way ahead at the start, then when his teammates were out of sight he went into the woods, laid down and slept. He said he played goalie because “the worst player had to stand in net”.

Fun character in Swedish hockey, hope you’ll give him a closer look in this project.
 

Professor What

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Lindmark was named best Swedish goaltender five times. He was named top goalie at the World Championships twice, in 1981 and 1986, at tournaments where Sweden finished with silver medals. Sweden were absolutely shelled by the Soviets in 1981, but did respectably in 1986, and in 1987 with Lindmark in net played a 2-2 draw with the Soviets to win Sweden’s first international goal medal in 25 years. Alongside Pelle Lindbergh, Lindmark is generally regarded the best Swedish goaltender of the 1980s.

I do wonder however, how many Swedes would rate Lindmark above Leif “Honken” Holmqvist? I feel as if the latter tends to rank higher but I’m not sure. Holmqvist played in the 1960s through 1970s when Sweden may occasionally beat the Soviets, are pretty evenly matched with Czechoslovakia, but only got silver and bronze medals to show for it. He was names best Swedish player (any position) twice, best goaltender of one World Championship and named to the media selected all-star team of another.

I haven’t watched either player enough to tell their greatness. Both are remembered for being interesting characters to some degree. I’ve read Holmqvist’s biography, he talked about having a good view of the flow of the game from his goalie position, being extremely calm and unfazed by allowing a goal, and the importance of positioning himself right. He hated when the mask mandate came and would go out of the way to wear the most ridiculous excuse for “face protection” as further regulations eventually were rolled in. Holmqvist was invited to the Bruins training camp and according to him competed well enough against Cheevers and Ed Johnston to receive a contract offer, which he regretfully had to turn down due to pressure from the Swedish hockey federation. He remains in awe of Bobby Orr from his stint with the Bruins however.

Lindmark seems mainly remembered for his antics as opposed to world class goaltending, which I guess is unfair. The first time he was named best Swedish goalie, he played in the second tier league. I feel he’s up there with the best goaltenders in the world through the 1980s, posting respectable numbers through three Canada Cups. Alas, when you hear about Lindmark in Sweden, it’s usually about what a fun character he was. He was a heavy smoker, he was known to take a rest against his cage when the action was in the other end, he didn’t care for physical training. When with Färjestad and the trainers had the team do a long-distance run, he sprinted way ahead at the start, then when his teammates were out of sight he went into the woods, laid down and slept. He said he played goalie because “the worst player had to stand in net”.

Fun character in Swedish hockey, hope you’ll give him a closer look in this project.
It's interesting that you mention Lindbergh in that post, because he's another guy that I don't know what to do with. I think the talent was clearly there, but there's just so little to go on. I don't want to shortchange someone that should be considered for the list, but I like more longevity, and there are a lot of guys who offer it. He's just another guy that stumps me.
 

Michael Farkas

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It's interesting that you mention Lindbergh in that post, because he's another guy that I don't know what to do with. I think the talent was clearly there, but there's just so little to go on. I don't want to shortchange someone that should be considered for the list, but I like more longevity, and there are a lot of guys who offer it. He's just another guy that stumps me.
Won't make my list. I was really disappointed in him actually. Small, reflex goalie big time challenger of shooters. Like, he's way out there a lot. He also comes way out to deal with loose pucks around and behind his net. Just average skating for me. But the thing that I dislike the most and why I don't think he would have a lot of long-term success or success outside of that period in Philly (where they had three straight goalies be the goalie of the year, right?) - he has very busy hands that never get set. Really his whole upper body is never positioned or square to the shooter.

So, as he shifts his weight with his skates - and maybe there's some fundamental stride issues, more likely it's a core strength thing - his blocker and glove are sort of dangling back and forth there, they're overlapping with the pads which is inefficient. It's just creating holes in a situation that is hole-producing for goalies already, which is movement in the crease, generally. I found a lot of pucks got through him, more than I'd care for, in my viewings.

I don't love the "backup goalie numbers game" - but Lindbergh's one impact NHL season, he wasn't even close to squirrely backup Bob Froese's numbers. That could be that Froese played Washington 15 times, I don't know off hand. But it's a stark difference.

The year before, he was sent to the minors because he was playing so bad. They sent Bernie Parent with him (another goalie coach sighting @Dr John Carlson ; also at this same time Chico Resch was the goalie coach for the Devils, this may be known info but it can't hurt to say I feel) to help him rebuild his game a bit. Which may well have helped, along with healing from a broken wrist suffered against the Soviets.

I don't know, I don't think this is a great player. We have one impact NHL season, another non-consecutive decent one...we have an uneven playoff record and - do I have to care about an AHL season in 1981 for some reason? I wouldn't think so. We have spotty and uneven and a small amount of results. Surrounded by other goalies that we know also aren't good having career-best success adjacent to it. And he doesn't pass the eye test for me, personally (others are, of course, welcome to help us out in that regard). He will not be on my list.
 

Doctor No

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The year before, he was sent to the minors because he was playing so bad. They sent Bernie Parent with him (another goalie coach sighting @Dr John Carlson ; also at this same time Chico Resch was the goalie coach for the Devils, this may be known info but it can't hurt to say I feel) to help him rebuild his game a bit. Which may well have helped, along with healing from a broken wrist suffered against the Soviets.

This doesn't excuse the lack of performance, but it's been reported that Lindbergh was struggling because of particularly severe hazing by his Flyers teammates.
 

MXD

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I learned a new word for goalie while researching Gerry McNeil's career. Un cerbère.

All through the Montreal French-language papers of the 1940s and 1950s, goalies were referred to as "le cerbère." I'm familiar with "gardien de but", which literally translates as "guardian of the goal", but "cerbère" was new to me. Apparently it's the French for Cerberus, the three-headed dog of Greek mythology who guards the gates of the underworld to prevent the dead from leaving.

Certainly a more colourful and evocative word for a guardian!


It's a rather commonly used term in French written media. A bit uncommon on broadcasts.
 
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MXD

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On Seth Martin : Can he really be ranked ahead of contemporary Charlie Hodge, who is at-best a candidate for the outer fringe of the list?
 

jigglysquishy

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I'm curious to trace Sawchuk's reputation as the greatest goaltender ever. In the 50s and 60s he didn't carry this reputation, but by the late 80s and into the 90s he did. He famously finished first amongst goalies in the 1998 THN top 100 players. I'm searching his name throughout newspapers of the 70s and 80s and his #1 status doesn't show up until 1985.

I'm throwing any references I can find of other goalies being named the greatest goalie, either of all-time, or just amongst present players.

Some quotes (all from Regina LeaderPost since I have the access for free)

February 9, 1985
Interviewing Hank Bassen, former Red Wings goalie who briefly backed up Sawchuk in 62 through 64 "And to play with who I think is the greatest goaltender of all time... well, just to sit alongside Terry Sawchuk"

December 9, 1998
On Sawchuk "perhaps the greatest goaltender ever to have played the game"

March 21, 1936
"Tiny Thompson, the year's greatest goaltender by any method of calculation"

April 7, 1934
"The greater goaltender in all of hockey, Charlie Gardiner"

June 14, 1934
"Dick Irvin, who was with the Hawks when Gardiner rose to stardom, express surprise and sorrow a the passing of hockey's greatest goaltender"

April 8, 1931
"Chuck Gardiner greatest goalie in history of hockey" from Wes Champ, owner of Regina Capitals in the 1920s
"Gardiner is ever greater than Hughie Lehman, known as "Eagle Eye," was in his prime," according to Wes, "and the way he comes out of his goal - sometimes as much as 15 feet - just breaks the hearts of the opposing sharpshooters"

September 4, 1976
"Vladislav Tretiak, acclaimed the world's greatest goalie by many hockey men"

October 17, 1956
"Bill Durnan, perhaps the greatest goalie the Canadiens ever had"

November 29, 1939
"Frankie Brimsek the greatest goalie of them all"

December 8, 1939
Art Ross claimed Frankie Brimsek is the greatest goalie of all time. "I chose Brimsek because he is the finest goalkeeper I have ever seen. Any man who can stop thirty deflected shots in one season is really something. He has the greatest pair of hands and moves faster than any man who has played that position"

March 6, 1941
"George Vezina, rated hockey's greatest goalie"

January 16, 1940
"I used to think Charlie Gardiner was the greatest goalie I ever saw, "said Frankie Boucher of the man who rose to the heights with Chicago Black Hawks and whose career was cut short by sickness that resulted in death.
"And it's true that Gardiner was really a wonderful goalie," continued Boucher. "But, believe me, Davie Kerr has shown me something on goaltending this season and I am sure that he is just as good as Gadiner ever was"




As an aside Quebec magazine Goalies World ranked the top goalies of all-time in 1999. Does anyone have the full list? I can see
1. Plante
2. Hall
3. Sawchuk
4. Roy
5. Dryden
6. Hasek
7. Durnan
8. Esposito
9. Broda
10. Thompson
 

Dr John Carlson

Registered User
Dec 21, 2011
10,067
4,662
Nova Scotia
On Seth Martin : Can he really be ranked ahead of contemporary Charlie Hodge, who is at-best a candidate for the outer fringe of the list?
Having trouble with Martin as well. I find the case for Gerry McNeill to be much more compelling than Martin's, if we're talking about O6-era goalies with thin NHL resumes, and I don't know if McNeill will make the cut for me.
 

jigglysquishy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2011
8,472
9,380
Regina, Saskatchewan
If we assume 1893 as our starting point we're at 131 years. You would anticipate representation from every era in a large enough sample (top 15 or top 20). Reasonably, we should expect a post lockout goalie in our top 15, right? Every other era is represented, all the way back to Vezina as an 1880s birth year.

The other positional lists are easy to demonstrate this. Crosby and McDavid for post lockout debut centres (Malkin and MacKinnon aren't far off). Ovechkin and Kucherov for wingers (Kane isn't far off). I guess defensemen don't, but we all expect Makar to be there soon.

Why not goalies? Are we structurally underrating a Price or Lundqvist because of award voting?
 

VanIslander

20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
36,164
6,850
South Korea
My first childhood hero in the late 1970's was Ken Dryden. I shook the giant's hand (i am 6'1 but i had to look up) when i cut into the long signature line when he was GMing a playoff game in Ottawa.
 

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