Speculation: Hoglander Mega Thread: Caps, Pens and CBJ interested

[SEALBound]

Price for Zadorov was 3rd and 5th. Pettersson would have very similar value, or slightly lower.

Pettersson is better than Zadorov and will come at a cheaper hit if the Penguins retain.

If not, then go find another Pettersson for a 3rd and a 5th if that's all you want to spend.

CBJ want a 1st for Provorov. I would suggest he and Pettersson at the top rental dmen available so Pettersson's value should be similar-ish to that.

 

[Nucker42]

I threw out Nieto and a 3rd for Hoglander, but what I think could be more appealing for Vancouver is Puljujarvi and a 3rd for Hoglander. Puljujarvi has been really effective when he has played for the Penguins, but Sullivan doesn't seem to like him for whatever reason. Swap of one guy a coach doesn't like for another, with the Penguins throwing on the 3rd to account for Hoglander having more value.



Pettersson is wildly better than Zadorov.

Is he? Statistically and the eye test might suggest Zadorov is actually better. Not seeing it.

 

[Rowlet]

Is he? Statistically and the eye test might suggest Zadorov is actually better. Not seeing it.

What stats? Zadorov is much worse

 

[Canucks LB]

Not sure but he's on pace for a whopping 6 goals this season, there sure are a lot of those dime a dozen players available.

Petr Prucha also scored 30 goals as a 22 year old, he didn't last long in the league.

If Hoglander was so special, the Nucks wouldn't be looking to trade him. Give them credit for noticing it was a fluke last year and to try to sell high on him while they can.

It’s because of his defensive play, he’s not getting the same minutes as he got before, and he’s losing interest in rick.

Look at kuzmenko as an example

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is he? Statistically and the eye test might suggest Zadorov is actually better. Not seeing it.

Okay what are these stats that suggest Zadorov is better?

Zadorov is a fringe #4/5 who's best suited in a 3rd pair role. Pettersson's a #3 that can be a defensive complement to a #1 OFD or make half of a very good 2nd pair.

 

[Nucker42]

What stats? Zadorov is much worse

You made the claim without any support?

Pettersson is playing more minutes. Points wise they are very similar. Pettersson struggles with breakouts and the first pass. Zadorov thrives there.

Zadorov is prone to bad penalties and mental lapses. But widely better? No

 

[PlayMakers]

For those that are interested:

The Canucks need:

1. Top 4 Dman to upgrade on Soucy or Myers
2. 3rd line C upgrade on Bleuger/Suter
3. Assets they can use to help them obtain the above

Trent Frederic for Hoglander? Fills your 3C need, and a player Tochett would love. Another Bruin too, which should fit in well in the room.

Frederic has played mostly LW for Boston (due to Bergeron, Krejci, Coyle being down the middle), but is a career center and played center for Boston down the stretch and in the playoffs last year. Monty wanted him to play there this year but they moved Zacha back to C which meant Zacha, Lindholm, Coyle down the middle.

I suggested this deal on the Bruins board a couple days ago, citing that Hoglander could help inject some skill into Boston's middle6, but Bruins fans didn't like it.

 

[SEALBound]

Is he? Statistically and the eye test might suggest Zadorov is actually better. Not seeing it.

That's because you're trying a used car salesman tactic here trying to convince the Penguins fans to offer Pettersson at a lower cost

 

[Empoleon8771]

You made the claim without any support?

Pettersson is playing more minutes. Points wise they are very similar. Pettersson struggles with breakouts and the first pass. Zadorov thrives there.

Zadorov is prone to bad penalties and mental lapses. But widely better? No

Judging defensemen like Pettersson based on their points (or claiming that he somehow struggles with breakouts) is a dead giveaway that you don't actually have a clue who the player is.

Pettersson is Chris Tanev that has less bulk (aka taller/lankier).

 

[UrbanImpact]

If the Canucks can somehow pry Cole Sillinger out of CBJ then it would be a home run.

Hoglander + Krudyastev + 2nd for Sillinger

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Canucks can somehow pry Cole Sillinger out of CBJ then it would be a home run.

Hoglander + Krudyastev + 2nd for Sillinger

Literally why would Columbus even remotely consider this

Like I'm questioning if this is even a serious suggestion because of how crazily lopsided it is for the Canucks.

 

[Nucker42]

That's because you're trying a used car salesman tactic here trying to convince the Penguins fans to offer Pettersson at a lower cost

Not at all. I don’t do that shit. He’s a good player but his strength is not puck moving and that’s what the Canucks need. They have defensive towers already.

1st rounders would say are out there for guys like Provorov, Sandhiem. Game changers. Pettersson is good at a lot of things but not a game changer by any means. I’m sure he’ll get a 2nd but I don’t think he’s getting much more. I just think him and Zadorov are similar and would bring similar packages.

Zadorov was excellent in Vancouver last year and is beloved by fans here.

 

[Nucker42]

Judging defensemen like Pettersson based on their points (or claiming that he somehow struggles with breakouts) is a dead giveaway that you don't actually have a clue who the player is.

Pettersson is Chris Tanev that has less bulk (aka taller/lankier).

Okay, that’s a little silly.

Tanev has been one of the best defensive defenseman in the NHL for the last 10 years. Pettersson is not even close to in his league.

He’s had 2 seasons where he’s played more than 70 games. Prior to last season he has never averaged more than 20 min a game.

If he plays another 5 years at 22+ min a night as a shut down d. Maybe you can run that comparison. Until then, not even close.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Okay, that’s a little silly.

Tanev has been one of the best defensive defenseman in the NHL for the last 10 years. Pettersson is not even close to in his league.

He’s had 2 seasons where he’s played more than 70 games. Prior to last season he has never averaged more than 20 min a game.

If he plays another 5 years at 22+ min a night as a shut down d. Maybe you can run that comparison. Until then, not even close.

No, it's not silly, it's completely reasonable.

Pettersson is a very good middle pair DFD that has a solid outlet pass. He is a clear and obvious step up from Zadorov.




Pettersson has been a top end DFD analytically for about the past 3 years, which coincides with exactly when they actually started using him like his underlying numbers suggested. Now compared to Zadorov:



I'm not saying Zadorov is bad because he isn't, but there is a clear difference between the two. Pettersson is on the same tier as Tanev in terms of DFD while Zadorov is a step below.

 

[Rowlet]

You made the claim without any support?

Pettersson is playing more minutes. Points wise they are very similar. Pettersson struggles with breakouts and the first pass. Zadorov thrives there.

Zadorov is prone to bad penalties and mental lapses. But widely better? No

I'm asking you what stats, you said statistically Zadorov is better, what stats are you talking about?

Zadorov vs Pettersson at 5v5 in relative stats:

CF: 1.72 vs 5.64
FF: 2.47 vs 6.31
xGF: 5.38 vs 8.72
SF: 1.53 vs 5.45
HDC: 7.37 vs 12.85

Zadorov has been fine this year, but Pettersson has been better in every advanced stat relative to his teammates.

 

[BCNate]

A recent 2nd round pick with the chops to play a bottom six role, and the skill to play a top six role. Tocchet doesn't seem to like him, but I'd rather keep him over Tocchet, if I'm being honest.

Tochett doesn't want to play Hogs because he has been awful this year. He got plenty of opportunity last year when he was playing well.

 

[Ryder71]

Pettersson is better than Zadorov and will come at a cheaper hit if the Penguins retain.

If not, then go find another Pettersson for a 3rd and a 5th if that's all you want to spend.

CBJ want a 1st for Provorov. I would suggest he and Pettersson at the top rental dmen available so Pettersson's value should be similar-ish to that.

IF we retain we should get Hoglander, a '25 2hd and maybe Mynio. For MP at say 40% retention.

 

[Empoleon8771]

IF we retain we should get Hoglander, a '25 2hd and maybe Mynio. For MP at say 40% retention.

This is pretty much spot on with what I'd expect if the deal was Pettersson for Hoglander+.

 

[belair]

How many dime a dozen 24 goal scorer a season ago at his age available?

You guys waived and lost a guy that fit that mold earlier this season, didn't you?

 

[Nucker42]

No, it's not silly, it's completely reasonable.

Pettersson is a very good middle pair DFD that has a solid outlet pass. He is a clear and obvious step up from Zadorov.




Pettersson has been a top end DFD analytically for about the past 3 years, which coincides with exactly when they actually started using him like his underlying numbers suggested. Now compared to Zadorov:



I'm not saying Zadorov is bad because he isn't, but there is a clear difference between the two. Pettersson is on the same tier as Tanev in terms of DFD while Zadorov is a step below.

Marginally better even strength defense than Zadorov. I guess I’ve missed the part where Pettersson became a top 5 defender in the league.

There’s a lot of info out there about his issues getting out of his zone and making a good first pass.

Again, I like the player and a few of you seem personally offended that I compared him to a player I actually really like. Just dial it down a bit. He’s barely played half the games Tanev has.

He’s not carrying a defensive pair. Good shut down guy but I wouldn’t give up a 1st for that.

 

[Ryder71]

This is pretty much spot on with what I'd expect if the deal was Pettersson for Hoglander+.

That sounds like a trade Dubas would consider, or something along those lines.

 

[notsocommonsense]

I threw out Nieto and a 3rd for Hoglander, but what I think could be more appealing for Vancouver is Puljujarvi and a 3rd for Hoglander. Puljujarvi has been really effective when he has played for the Penguins, but Sullivan doesn't seem to like him for whatever reason. Swap of one guy a coach doesn't like for another, with the Penguins throwing on the 3rd to account for Hoglander having more value.



Pettersson is wildly better than Zadorov.

Vancouver has zero need for a forward back

 

[Empoleon8771]

Marginally better even strength defense than Zadorov. I guess I’ve missed the part where Pettersson became a top 5 defender in the league.

Where did I ever say that Pettersson was a top-5 defenseman in the league? I said he was a #3 defenseman while Zadorov is a fringe #4/5. Which is exactly what the JFresh charts there say.

There’s a lot of info out there about his issues getting out of his zone and making a good first pass.

Again, I like the player and a few of you seem personally offended that I compared him to a player I actually really like. Just dial it down a bit. He’s barely played half the games Tanev has.

He’s not carrying a defensive pair. Good shut down guy but I wouldn’t give up a 1st for that.

How does the amount of games played have any relevance to how good he is?

And yes, it's totally fair to not give up a 1st for him. Tanev didn't get back a 1st as a rental last year either. I'm saying that comparing him to Zadorov and saying he'd only get back a similar return is ridiculous, because Pettersson is on par with Tanev and not Zadorov.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Playing 3rd line minutes so far this year. I think he was splitting time on the 2nd and 3rd last year but when the playoffs rolled around he got pushed to the 3rd and his numbers fell. Curious to know why he fell out of favour with Tockett

 

[Jumptheshark]

Literally why would Columbus even remotely consider this

Like I'm questioning if this is even a serious suggestion because of how crazily lopsided it is for the Canucks.

99% of the trades on this board rarely look at the trade from both side