Hockey Cards - Part III

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Cubs2024wildcard

Hung out with Livvy Dunne. You didnt.
Apr 29, 2015
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I would yup. Card collecting wasn't near as popular in 2005 as it is now. So because of that, they were not printing near as many as they do now, or even did in 1979 with Gretzky. Sid will go down as one of the best ever and due to supply and demand down the road, I only see his card going way up over the years.
I don't know about this.

If there were blasters of 2005 on clearance in retail, and there were for a couple years, it was mass produced.

More limited then the crap UD churns out today but still plentiful back in the day.
 

Cubs2024wildcard

Hung out with Livvy Dunne. You didnt.
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As someone who was a huge collector back in the day and slowly is getting back into it, and whose son is really getting into the hobby...

Is it safe to suggest that the hobby is a whole lot different than the peak in the late 80s into the mid-90s? Back then it was about completing sets and collecting as many common cards, with the feeling of hitting the jackpot if you got a specialty card. Whereas these days it feels like (and certainly tell me if I'm wrong) it is the opposite -- common cards are ho-hum, and it's all about getting the 1 of X cards, autographed and/or jersey cards, specific players/rookies, etc. Not to mention the huge emphasis on having your cards graded to ensure their value and condition.

I'm of the mindset that quality is greater than quantity. Spend the money on the cards you are most interested in. I also speak as one, who perhaps is in the minority, who views card collecting as something for my lifelong keepsakes than merely investment opportunities.
Boxes of cards of any sport is nothing but gambling now.

If you are a collector, buy what you collect and stay away from the dice rolling fanatics is going to be pumping when it comes to unopened box sales.

When breakers are pulling all the huge hits to 300 little kids on streams you can most certainly tell where this hobby is headed. Like.....if the biggest card from a product is pulled, and it's usually being pulled from the same handful of breakers, why the hell would you spend money on that product? Doesn't make sense but whatevs.

I make a ton of money selling high end, but the collector in me just buys the cards I want to collect. And while I know alot of people like to speculate on ultra modern, outside of numbered cards in single digits there's really no money in it.

I do miss the days of selling Zion Prizm Mega boxes for 1k tho.....
 
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BWJM

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As someone who was a huge collector back in the day and slowly is getting back into it, and whose son is really getting into the hobby...

Is it safe to suggest that the hobby is a whole lot different than the peak in the late 80s into the mid-90s? Back then it was about completing sets and collecting as many common cards, with the feeling of hitting the jackpot if you got a specialty card. Whereas these days it feels like (and certainly tell me if I'm wrong) it is the opposite -- common cards are ho-hum, and it's all about getting the 1 of X cards, autographed and/or jersey cards, specific players/rookies, etc. Not to mention the huge emphasis on having your cards graded to ensure their value and condition.

I'm of the mindset that quality is greater than quantity. Spend the money on the cards you are most interested in. I also speak as one, who perhaps is in the minority, who views card collecting as something for my lifelong keepsakes than merely investment opportunities.

It’s definitely changed, I find everything in the hobby is a gamble, but I try and limit my loses. Why spend $275 on a hobby box of SP Authentic hoping for that one FWA when you can just buy the card for that money on eBay.

I open boxes on special occasions, but generally buy and sell on eBay to keep my collection growing.
 

Hippasus

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Not a fan of either but how do you come to this conclusion?

Beckett was a big, big deal in the early 2000s but their decline was pretty much earned.
BGS has a reputation for stricter grading. They have four subgrades per card as well as two levels above 9.5, which apparently roughly corresponds to PSA 10s. BGS' higher gradations are pristines (with three out of four subgrades being 10s and the fourth being a 9.5), as well as black pristines (or something) (with four subgrades of 10).
 
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Cubs2024wildcard

Hung out with Livvy Dunne. You didnt.
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BGS has a reputation for stricter grading.
No they don't.

Beckett was a self promoted gamble thru their price guides that paid off handsomely in the early 2000s then completely fell off the rails after many controversies like the black label scandal with pretty much killed them completely.

Anybody buying BGS gets what they pay for.
 

Hippasus

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No they don't.

Beckett was a self promoted gamble thru their price guides that paid off handsomely in the early 2000s then completely fell off the rails after many controversies like the black label scandal with pretty much killed them completely.

Anybody buying BGS gets what they pay for.
What black label scandal?
 

Cubs2024wildcard

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frightenedinmatenum2

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As someone who was a huge collector back in the day and slowly is getting back into it, and whose son is really getting into the hobby...

Is it safe to suggest that the hobby is a whole lot different than the peak in the late 80s into the mid-90s? Back then it was about completing sets and collecting as many common cards, with the feeling of hitting the jackpot if you got a specialty card. Whereas these days it feels like (and certainly tell me if I'm wrong) it is the opposite -- common cards are ho-hum, and it's all about getting the 1 of X cards, autographed and/or jersey cards, specific players/rookies, etc. Not to mention the huge emphasis on having your cards graded to ensure their value and condition.

I'm of the mindset that quality is greater than quantity. Spend the money on the cards you are most interested in. I also speak as one, who perhaps is in the minority, who views card collecting as something for my lifelong keepsakes than merely investment opportunities.

It's not about any specific card. It is more geared towards gambling. It's not a good hobby for kids in that respect. Might as well just get him an account on whichever gambling site provides the best fan experience.

Meaning, there are cards that have more demand in the hobby, but at the end of the day the entire culture is built around people "breaking" boxes. People rarely keep what they break. They sell them to "pay for the box".

What you should do with your son is open a COMC account. Give the kid a budget. Let him buy the hits or inserts he finds interesting. Just don't leave your credit card linked to it, maybe pay for credit via cheque if they still allow that. Keep in mind, it will cost money to have the cards eventually shipped to him, but if you let him build up a collection and then do a shipment every few months it might be fun for him to anticipate that.

In terms of quality over quantity, the most revered cards in the hobby are The Cup RPAs, Future Watch Rookie Autos, and Young Guns Rookies.

Young Guns are very affordable for 90 percent of cards. Even big stars who have already peaked don't cost very much. For example, Erik Karlsson might be 30-40 dollars, Claude Giroux is 20 or so dollars. Those are both players who are possible HHOFs, MVP candidates, in contention for being the top player at their position for many years, etc. The thing about Young Guns is that most players peak when they first come out and demand for their cards is high or for rookies who aren't high picks they peak when they first break out. Outside of a small selection of choice players, or exceptions to the rule due to certain years being short printed, most cards from past generations of players don't have a high demand because the hobby is based around gambling and speculating and when a player is out of their prime that ends.

The Cup RPAs and Future Watch Autos are going to be a lot more expensive for any name players. When the sets are first released, you can usually get B or C type rookies for very cheap relative to the price of the product. Each pack of The Cup costs somewhere around 1500 CAD and has a few hits (autos and jerseys). So realistically, each RPA costs the person who originally opened the pack a few hundred dollars. A lot of the lesser names get sold off for 20-50. Sometimes less. The big names sell for four figures plus. If your son is interested in hockey or his favourite team to the point that having a highly limited and aesthetic Egor Sokolov RPA for $20 would excite him, then you could probably look to collecting The Cup.

If you go on COMC and you simply don't care about which set you buy, autographs are reasonably cheap for most players. It was better before the pandemic because there was an over abundance of supply that nobody wanted, so prices of all cards on COMC got driven down. People seem to have bought up that supply and it's partly reset things so now your average autograph is still a bit more expensive. We're talking $5-$10 instead of $1-$5. So they are still affordable. Some players sign more Upper Deck cards than others, but especially for players who have signed a lot over the last 5-10 years, you can get an autograph for maybe 95 percent of the league for $5-$10 a piece.

edit: If you don't know what COMC is, it's a giant warehouse for cards. Think Amazon FBA but just for cards. You can buy a card without having to immediately pay for shipping. You then "own" the card in your portfolio. You can either resell the card later on if you don't want it, or you can wait until you own enough cards to offset the cost of shipping. For example, it might cost $20 to have 1 card shipped to you, but $45 to have 100 cards shipped to you. 45 cents per card is cheaper than $20 a card. People generally sell certain cards for less on COMC for many reasons, but because it is all standardized it would be a good way for a kid to browse and purchase cards so long as you don't link a payment method on their account. (You can load a specific amount of credit.)
 
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Selanne00008

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It’s definitely changed, I find everything in the hobby is a gamble, but I try and limit my loses. Why spend $275 on a hobby box of SP Authentic hoping for that one FWA when you can just buy the card for that money on eBay.

I open boxes on special occasions, but generally buy and sell on eBay to keep my collection growing.

My son is 4.5 and this year I bought one box on black friday, and am holding it to open on Super Bowl Sunday. Someone on Blowout does this (only they buy like 15 boxes lol), and thought it was a good idea. This is the first year doing it with my son, so we'll see if it is interested or gives 0 f... Hoping to make it a tradition!
 

yada

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This is a little ambitious
1000006324.jpg
 
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Hippasus

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No here's the thread I was looking for


This is why I tell all pandemic collectors please, please, please do your homework before you start spending your hard earned money.
A message board thread is just hearsay. It would have to be a decent-sized news story or a legit lawsuit to really be a scandal.

There is also the possibility, assuming the story that thread is talking about is real, that this guy knew what to send in from experience (he was allegedly an ex-BGS employee) or got the good condition cards some other, even if in a possibly corrupt, way. My point is, this doesn't necessarily implicate the grading system itself, or as a whole, as fraudulent.

Of course, there is rampant corruption in the business world and other walks of life, like sports, politics, and healthcare. But I would just be a bit skeptical of painting random word-of-mouth stories with that brush.
 
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BWJM

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My son is 4.5 and this year I bought one box on black friday, and am holding it to open on Super Bowl Sunday. Someone on Blowout does this (only they buy like 15 boxes lol), and thought it was a good idea. This is the first year doing it with my son, so we'll see if it is interested or gives 0 f... Hoping to make it a tradition!

That’s the way to do it man! My favorite hobby boxes are the upper deck series 1/2.

22/23 Series 2 is my favorite of recent. 24 packs, lots of good young guns so you can really milk it. Reasonably priced too.

I’m sad they made 23/24 series 1 only 12 packs.
 

Cubs2024wildcard

Hung out with Livvy Dunne. You didnt.
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A message board thread is just hearsay. It would have to be a decent-sized news story or a legit lawsuit to really be a scandal.

There is also the possibility, assuming the story that thread is talking about is real, that this guy knew what to send in from experience (he allegedly an ex-BGS employee) or got the good condition cards some other, even if in a possibly corrupt, way. My point is, this doesn't necessarily implicate the grading system itself, or as a whole, as fraudulent.

Of course, there is rampant corruption in the business world and other walks of life, like sports, politics, and healthcare. But I would just be a bit skeptical of painting random word-of-mouth stories with that brush.
No bro, this story is 100% accurate. All the actors involved including Clemons himself were in that thread.

For those who don't click links, back in 2019 one person had 25% of all BGS black labels on ebay. Turned out he not only had hundreds of black labels, but thousands of BGS 10s also.

Investigation was done and the same person used to work at BGS. In my many, many years of collecting i have only had 3 BGS black labels and only ever received one black label from an actual submission and that coincidentally (sarc)was a massive group submission.

More digging was done and the same guy started working for Leaf and magically was still getting black labels for every key card, was getting Leaf product and selling it on the market weeks before its release date.

Blowout forums is the goto place for these types of scandals when it's about sportscards and the shady side of the hobby in general. Upper Deck and Fanatics reps are there plus scandal threads are heavily moderated for authenticity so when a thread like that hits 70 plus pages you damn well know it ain't hearsay.

If you know, you know.
 

Sad People

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I got outta the loop a bit and forgot but what are usually the most sought after rookie cards for collectors other then YGs? Was it The Cup?
 

Hippasus

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I got outta the loop a bit and forgot but what are usually the most sought after rookie cards for collectors other then YGs? Was it The Cup?
Upper Deck Ice and SP Authentic (future watch) are up there for some post 04-05 lockout seasons. Prior to said lockout, UD Premier was a sought after set.
 
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blankall

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I got outta the loop a bit and forgot but what are usually the most sought after rookie cards for collectors other then YGs? Was it The Cup?

A major problem is that UD keeps changing up the releases, so there's no consistency. Cards like Ice Premiere, Trilogy, Black Diamond, Fleer Ultra are constantly changing formats. This makes their rookie far less sought after. Precious Metal Gems were sought after, but then UD goes and changes up the sets they come in.

Besides YGs, I'd say the Cup and SP Authentic Future Watch Autos are both very sought after.
 
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Sad People

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A major problem is that UD keeps changing up the releases, so there's no consistency. Cards like Ice Premiere, Trilogy, Black Diamond, Fleer Ultra are constantly changing formats. This makes their rookie far less sought after. Precious Metal Gems were sought after, but then UD goes and changes up the sets they come in.

Besides YGs, I'd say the Cup and SP Authentic Future Watch Autos are both very sought after.
Ive been eyeing some of the PMGs and they look so effin good too. Beautiful looking cards.
 

Satan

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A major problem is that UD keeps changing up the releases, so there's no consistency. Cards like Ice Premiere, Trilogy, Black Diamond, Fleer Ultra are constantly changing formats. This makes their rookie far less sought after. Precious Metal Gems were sought after, but then UD goes and changes up the sets they come in.

Besides YGs, I'd say the Cup and SP Authentic Future Watch Autos are both very sought after.
what do you mean by this? if anything Upper Deck put them in the correct set (Metal Universe beginning in 2020-21) after years of including them as an insert set in Fleer-branded products (2012-13 Fleer Retro and then Fleer Showcase from 2013-14 to 2016-17)
 

blankall

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what do you mean by this? if anything Upper Deck put them in the correct set (Metal Universe beginning in 2020-21) after years of including them as an insert set in Fleer-branded products (2012-13 Fleer Retro and then Fleer Showcase from 2013-14 to 2016-17)

I don't mind the idea of bringing back Metal Universe, but the problem is that UD has muddled things with so many similar sets. In the past all the sets had their own identity. Fleer had the retro stuff, and featured retro inserts like PMGs. Now every set is a bit "retro" and there's so many similar ones, all with various shiny parallels that look the same.

I guess my biggest issue with the the new products is their lack of identity. They all look too similar.
 
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