Hockey Cards - Part III

[Satan]

In hockey, BGS was king for a long time and BGS 9.5 > PSA 10 in price. People who collect sports like baseball preferred PSA due to the set registry they have. Now that investor types are looking at key hockey RCs, who came from the other sports, they know PSA.

I used to agree with the bolded statement until I did a deep dive into PSA 10 vs BGS 9.5 datasets.

Hockey card collectors historically (pre-2020) sent more cards to BGS to get graded. This is fact.

BGS 9.5s did not outsell PSA 10s for a significant period of time. Look up any modern rookie.

 

[blankall]

Psa finally seems to be getting through the backlog. My order from a year ago is now in the quality assurance process.

Hopefully once things are caught up, psa, post business expansion will have an excess of capacity and lower their prices to $20/card again. I'd also like to see a couple of other companies become players in hockey. No reason why a company life sgc shouldn't. eBay is also pushing. CSG and HGA look like solid companies too.

 

[Ainec]

Psa finally seems to be getting through the backlog. My order from a year ago is now in the quality assurance process.

Hopefully once things are caught up, psa, post business expansion will have an excess of capacity and lower their prices to $20/card again. I'd also like to see a couple of other companies become players in hockey. No reason why a company life sgc shouldn't. eBay is also pushing. CSG and HGA look like solid companies too.

It will never be $20 again due to inflation

Csg and hga are both gimmicks. It'd be better if it was just PSA and BGS

 

[Dicky113]

I've been collecting for 20 years. Pre-pandemic PSA 10s were still outselling BGS 9.5s. I also posted the historic gem rates on the other page, but I'll include them on this post. It's been historically easier to get BGS 9.5s than PSA 10s. I'll trust the data more than anecdotal evidence.

All-Time Gem Rates (PSA 10 or BGS 9.5+) as of January 1, 2022:
2020s: PSA 58.7%; BGS 68%
2010s: PSA 55.1%; BGS 64.7%
2000s: PSA 36.4%; BGS 37.1%

Example #1
Graph: November 1, 2015 to March 10, 2020 (UDS1 release up until pandemic lockdown)
Blue line: McDavid PSA 10
Green line: McDavid BGS 9.5
View attachment 506986

Example #2
Graph: January 1, 2006 to January 1, 2015
Purple: Ovechkin PSA 10
Red line: Ovechkin BGS 9.5
View attachment 506989

These graphs are my point. If you look on eBay during this pandemic craze, PSA 10’s are selling for like 2X BGS 9.5. That implies the cards are better condition which just isn’t the case.

 

[Satan]

These graphs are my point. If you look on eBay during this pandemic craze, PSA 10’s are selling for like 2X BGS 9.5. That implies the cards are better condition which just isn’t the case.

I posted the gem rates which literally contradict your point that it's easier to get a PSA 10 than a BGS 9.5 lmao.

The PSA gap in price (which existed pre-pandemic) scaled accordingly when the pandemic started. Any widening in the gap is because nobody wants BGS cards since they've become a minnow. They have lost out on market share because of their inability to meet consumer demand for grading.

 

[BostonBob]

I've got some Bruins stuff for sale if anyone is interested. $175 shipped to your door in the lower 48 States.

My cousin ( not a member here ) is a huge Thomas fan and would love these cards - how much to send to Canada ???

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

That's right- I think I have BGS 9.5s that I think could cross as PSA 9s.

The all-time rates support this. It's been easier to get BGS 9.5s than PSA 10s.

All-Time Gem Rates (PSA 10 or BGS 9.5+) as of January 1, 2022:
2020s: PSA 58.7%; BGS 68%
2010s: PSA 55.1%; BGS 64.7%
2000s: PSA 36.4%; BGS 37.1%


Your condescending tone in your posts is also totally unnecessary.

But, you left off 1990’s and back, of which PSA has the higher gem rate until you get into the 60’s.

Did you leave that off on purpose to prove a point? Throw in the amount of cards PSA gets compared to BGS and guess what? The numbers are pretty much 50/50 in gem rate.

Now, if PSA is grading cards at 2 to 1 compared to BGS, which I would have to look into but it’s honestly feasible, that’s sort of making BGS look a little better with those numbers. Which again, if there’s actual proof BGS 8.5’s have been resubbed to PSA and came back 10, and there’s threads at blowout confirming this, I would say a BGS 9.5 has a much better chance at being resubbed a 10 at PSA then a PSA 10 has at being a BGS 9.5.

If you are going to provide gem rate statistics, don’t mislead and provide all of them, not cherry pick current cards which won’t hold their value in the long run outside of iconic cards.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

In hockey, BGS was king for a long time and BGS 9.5 > PSA 10 in price. People who collect sports like baseball preferred PSA due to the set registry they have. Now that investor types are looking at key hockey RCs, who came from the other sports, they know PSA.

BGS was king for about five years in all sports. Like it or not, there was a time when BGS was getting more money then PSA.

That was on account of their magazine cherry picking BGS sales regularly and posting it on their site.

If I recall correctly they made a huge deal over a Jordan rookie selling at 100k in a BGS holder and had a little write up when a PSA sold for 150k the next month. BGS shot themselves in the foot over it and you couldn’t take them seriously after it.

Throw in the current trimming fiasco they are having over a Giannis rookie auto and they have nobody to blame but themselves over the situation they are in.

I always stuck with PSA. Not that their reputation was any better but the omission of sub grades surely helped out outside of qualifiers.

 

[Satan]

But, you left off 1990’s and back, of which PSA has the higher gem rate until you get into the 60’s.

Did you leave that off on purpose to prove a point? Throw in the amount of cards PSA gets compared to BGS and guess what? The numbers are pretty much 50/50 in gem rate.

Now, if PSA is grading cards at 2 to 1 compared to BGS, which I would have to look into but it’s honestly feasible, that’s sort of making BGS look a little better with those numbers. Which again, if there’s actual proof BGS 8.5’s have been resubbed to PSA and came back 10, and there’s threads at blowout confirming this, I would say a BGS 9.5 has a much better chance at being resubbed a 10 at PSA then a PSA 10 has at being a BGS 9.5.

If you are going to provide gem rate statistics, don’t mislead and provide all of them, not cherry pick current cards which won’t hold their value in the long run outside of iconic cards.

Volume of cards graded has nothing to do with gem rate but for the record but PSA is grading way more than 2 times the amount of cards as BGS right now. In January PSA graded 775,000 items to BGS' 61,000.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

And I would like to point out there’s more PSA 10 Coby White Prizm rookies in the wild then the entire YG checklist of last year or the year before.

Not just one card, then entire run of YG’s.

 

[Satan]

not cherry pick current cards which won’t hold their value in the long run outside of iconic cards.

For a hockey card thread, the McDavid and Ovechkin cards aren't cherry picked examples. I can look up any modern hockey card and compare PSA 10 vs BGS 9.5 and their trends would align similarly to the ones I posted.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Volume of cards graded has nothing to do with gem rate but for the record but PSA is grading way more than 2 times the amount of cards as BGS right now. In January PSA graded 775,000 items to BGS' 61,000.

View attachment 507051

Yes, because 61k cards compared to 775k has nothing to do with gem rate percentage.

Good job, tho

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

For a hockey card thread, the McDavid and Ovechkin cards aren't cherry picked examples. I can look up any modern hockey card and compare PSA 10 vs BGS 9.5 and their trends would align similarly to the ones I posted.

You cherry picked current cards compared to all cards.

What’s a Gretzky rookie gem rate?

 

[Satan]

Yes, because 61k cards compared to 775k has nothing to do with gem rate percentage.

Good job, tho

Do you know understand what the word "rate" means?

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Do you know understand what the word "rate" means?

Of course. And the frequency of submission would be in PSA’s favor.

You do know because of the price point on a BGS grade only cards that are of high quality get shipped there to be graded, correct?

Where as with PSA you can have bulk shipments sent thru an established member and have those costs cut in half, yeah?

Gem rate isn’t the end all, sorry

 

[Satan]

You cherry picked current cards compared to all cards.

What’s a Gretzky rookie gem rate?

This has nothing to do with the initial claim thatf BGS 9.5's outsold PSA 10's up until the pandemic. But thanks for continuing to prove my point that PSA grades harder than BGS.

Gretzky OPC PSA 10 Pop 2 of 7428 (0.03%)
Topps PSA 10 Pop 2 of 7153 (0.03%)

OPC BGS 9.5+ Pop 12 of 4141 (0.3%)
Topps BGS 9.5 Pop 4 of 3941(0.1%)

 

[Satan]

Of course. And the frequency of submission would be in PSA’s favor.

You do know because of the price point on a BGS grade only cards that are of high quality get shipped there to be graded, correct?

Where as with PSA you can have bulk shipments sent thru an established member and have those costs cut in half, yeah?

Gem rate isn’t the end all, sorry

BGS is still grading bulk submissions submitted 12+ months ago. I've mentioned this already as one of the major factors why PSA 10s are outselling BGS 9.5s.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

This has nothing to do with the initial claim thatf BGS 9.5's outsold PSA 10's up until the pandemic. But thanks for continuing to prove my point that PSA grades harder than BGS.

Gretzky OPC PSA 10 Pop 2 of 7428 (0.03%)
Topps PSA 10 Pop 2 of 7153 (0.03%)

OPC BGS 9.5+ Pop 12 of 4141 (0.3%)
Topps BGS 9.5 Pop 4 of 3941(0.1%)

Well I never said they didn’t, so…

I said BGS is more throughout considering they have sub grades.

During a stretch of around five years BGS was outselling psa. I stated that also

 

[Satan]

The reason why I selected Ovechkin and McDavid to show the delta between BGS/PSA is because those are the type of cards that provide enough secondary market data points. There was 0 intention to cherry pick- they just represent the best examples for "modern" hockey cards in my opinion.

 

[Rorschach]

I got my Crosby and Ovechkin YGs and SPA FWAs graded by BGS back in 2007-ish because BGS 9.5 and 10 were worth significantly more and sold faster than PSA 10.

 

[illpucks]

Can the cases (PSA for example) make the cards so they become worse than the initial grading?

 

[Save By Thomas]

My cousin ( not a member here ) is a huge Thomas fan and would love these cards - how much to send to Canada ???

I'd say an extra $20. If the total after that is more, I'll take care of it.......if it's significantly less I'll refund the difference.

 

[BostonBob]

I'd say an extra $20. If the total after that is more, I'll take care of it.......if it's significantly less I'll refund the difference.

I'll ask him later today and send you a PM.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

The reason why I selected Ovechkin and McDavid to show the delta between BGS/PSA is because those are the type of cards that provide enough secondary market data points. There was 0 intention to cherry pick- they just represent the best examples for "modern" hockey cards in my opinion.

Well, if you are going to cherry pick modern cards, put all cards gem rates up, not just modern. That way everyone can see the entire story.

Like I said, gem rate isn’t that much of a factor, like it or not. And I have no horse in this race, I’m not a fan of either grading company and was pro GAI.

That said, nobody is sending a card to BGS for a 9.5. They’re sending it for a black label. You are sending a card to PSA for a ten. That’s the crap BGS put themselves into and now they have to live with it.

And yes, there are rumors that Beckett workers have stacks of black labels in their collections. There was a former employee on fleabay who had an astronomical amount of black labels asking ridiculous prices until he was called out about it.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Can the cases (PSA for example) make the cards so they become worse than the initial grading?

Unless your throwing them around, no.

And by throwing them around, whipping them on their side into the ground.

I had a Bubba Franks psa 10 rookie I whipped into the ground and it didn’t do anything until the fifth time launching it.