Hindsight - Dubas or Hunter?

[Walshy7]

He has a better grasp on the game and a relationship with OHL players. He is successful and one of the most studied students of the game, with real experience. He knew Lou, he knows the NHLPA, he helped develop future talent that spans the entire league as it is today. He played with or worked with trainers, refs, doctors, execs and Zambo drivers.

He doesn't have an NHL job by choice. He prefers his team or the Leafs. Need I really say more?

all very much hear say you dont know if he knows any of those people except lou. He helped pay talent under the table to join his franchise we know that for sure. Leafs or Knights thats it? weird he interviewed with the wild and the oilers too didnt he?

Oilers interview Mark Hunter a second time for vacant GM role - Sportsnet.ca

2 interviews with the oilers? while he only wants to ever work at the knights or leafs? weird

 

[ULF_55]

By that time he could have us locked as a treadmill team for a half decade. He already transitioned our strengths into weakness in under two years. Truly a menace, destructive GM like no other I have seen before.

Only Tavares is locked into Toronto with a NMC.

Leafs can deal either of the other double digits without any consultation.

 

[thewave]

all very much hear say you dont know if he knows any of those people except lou. He helped pay talent under the table to join his franchise we know that for sure. Leafs or Knights thats it? weird he interviewed with the wild and the oilers too didnt he?

Oilers interview Mark Hunter a second time for vacant GM role - Sportsnet.ca

2 interviews with the oilers? while he only wants to ever work at the knights or leafs? weird

Yes ok bud, he didn't play in the NHL or talk to anyone on staff etc either. I mean he wasn't a member to the NHLPA and does not own an OHL team. Let's not move this discussion to clown status. I was being honest and telling it like it is.

 

[hotpaws]

Only Tavares is locked into Toronto with a NMC.

Leafs can deal either of the other double digits without any consultation.

dealing anyone other than JT would be a mistake

if we had a GM with a pair of balls he'd sit JT down and explain how this isn't working out and to give a list of teams he'd be willing to be traded too

unfortunately we have a GM who couldn't even fire the coach or be at the press conference to announce the firing

 

[Merrrlin]

Weird to make a hindsight thread when the season isn't even over, and we're in the darkest place we've been in a long time.

I have a feeling I know what answer OP was fishing for.

Run the poll again at the end of the season.

 

[Walshy7]

Yes ok bud, he didn't play in the NHL or talk to anyone on staff etc either. I mean he wasn't a member to the NHLPA and does not own an OHL team. Let's not move this discussion to clown status. I was being honest and telling it like it is.

telling it like it is? is there a more empty comment than that?. Im saying you have no idea what relationships he has that will help him be a better GM and that is a fact you "the wave" have no clue who he knows

You said "he only wants leafs or knights" i provided a link where he interviewed twice at another team.

 

[thewave]

telling it like it is? is there a more empty comment than that?. Im saying you have no idea what relationships he has that will help him be a better GM and that is a fact you "the wave" have no clue who he knows

You said "he only wants leafs or knights" i provided a link where he interviewed twice at another team.

Walshy I am not going down this path with you again. He has relationships with people he employs, has under contract, played with on teams and the staff of those teams. I am right and you are wrong and if not wrong you literally believe that people do not create relationships with people they work with or for.

 

[Menzinger]

dealing anyone other than JT would be a mistake

if we had a GM with a pair of balls he'd sit JT down and explain how this isn't working out and to give a list of teams he'd be willing to be traded too

unfortunately we have a GM who couldn't even fire the coach or be at the press conference to announce the firing

And the motivation to give up a ppg centre, who last year also had one of the best seasons for a centre in Leafs history is????

 

[thewave]

Only Tavares is locked into Toronto with a NMC.

Leafs can deal either of the other double digits without any consultation.

That's true but we are the team in distress. Unfortunately as the Kessel trade went and any other of that nature, the returns vary in quality.

 

[ULF_55]

dealing anyone other than JT would be a mistake

if we had a GM with a pair of balls he'd sit JT down and explain how this isn't working out and to give a list of teams he'd be willing to be traded too

unfortunately we have a GM who couldn't even fire the coach or be at the press conference to announce the firing

That is an interesting thought, but unnecessary.

Leafs made a commitment to Tavares and Tavares made a commitment to the Leafs. But I understand not everyone will fight to honour a commitment, always looking for the next high ... why divorce is so prevalent ... not willing to work through the tough spots.

Leafs never made a NTC or NMC commitment to the other double digits because basically that isn't reality.

To make the team better, we both have to agree no one is untouchable. Even Gretzky never won another Cup but the Oilers did.

 

[hotpaws]

And the motivation to give up a ppg centre, who last year also had one of the best seasons for a centre in Leafs history is????

winning ?

 

[Cotton]

In hindsight I'm rolling the dice on Hunter. A hunnerd pacent.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Lou Lam had us at the top of the Leafs franchise ladder setting new team records for wins and points.

Inexplicably the Leafs changed GMs while sitting on top and its been downhill ever since.

Perhaps Lou Lam strict rules and military like discipline is what was needed with his rules and standards.

Without structure Leafs players seem to be crumbling.

Dubas seems to be taking this team under his direction like an 18 wheeler over a cliff again.

Leafs should have hired Stevie Yzerman as GM years ago when that opportunity presented itself, as he did an magnificent job building the Lightning into an annual Cup contender . IMO

He made one bad trade in Barrie who has stunk up the joint. Other than that he's managed draft steals in Sandin, Robertson, and Abruzzese, by some miracle kept the team within cap compliance and added a potential replacement for Freddy Andersen in a trade.

Injuries, poor goaltending and lack of depth on D have dogged the team most of the year. Dubas has addressed the goaltending problem and injuries are out of his control. The D is his responsibility and another move is required. He knows that.

Barrie should be gone by the deadline.

 

[hotpaws]

That is an interesting thought, but unnecessary.

Leafs made a commitment to Tavares and Tavares made a commitment to the Leafs. But I understand not everyone will fight to honour a commitment, always looking for the next high ... why divorce is so prevalent ... not willing to work through the tough spots.

Leafs never made a NTC or NMC commitment to the other double digits because basically that isn't reality.

To make the team better, we both have to agree no one is untouchable. Even Gretzky never won another Cup but the Oilers did.

M & M have nmc's and they kick in as soon as allowed under the cba .

i've been married for over 30 years but i've seen many marriages that should/needed to end , it always comes down to the circumstances and in this case i'll keep the kids and try to move the old chick before the looks go , lol

 

[Menzinger]

winning ?

If you think a ppg centre is a determinant to that i dont know what else to say....

 

[firstemperor]

Between, the two, Hunter. Dubas only temporarily swayed my opinion because he was able to net JT. I don't believe for a minute Hunter would have gotten taken to the cleaners on contracts for the big 3, nor would he have moved Kadri for the package he ended up giving him up for.

Unlike Dubas, I also believe Hunter fundamentally saw/anticipated a root issue with this team and how important we needed size,physicality, and compete- hence why he always went for home-run picks with late picks. None of them panned out, but I had no inherent problem with his strategy. I would have preferred he would have been more strategic about his selections but don't fault him for trying.

The only big problem I had with Hunter was I believe he was very pro-Babcock and pro-Lou, and I don't think he would have been the long-term solution either.

 

[Walshy7]

Walshy I am not going down this path with you again. He has relationships with people he employs, has under contract, played with on teams and the staff of those teams. I am right and you are wrong and if not wrong you literally believe that people do not create relationships with people they work with or for.

ok so dubas as gm of the zoo doesn’t have the same relationships? He wasn’t a player no but he was an agent which hunter wasn’t?.

I’m not saying he doesn’t know people of course he does I’m saying you have no idea who he knows and if that will help him. As a gm he really only will be dealing with other gms so they are the relationships that will matter. Who gives a shit of he know a trainers and Zamboni drivers?.

Oh shit you say you are right therefore you are right?

I’m also done with this convo because frankly I don’t really care hunter failed at what he supposed to good at and hasn’t been hired in the nhl. We made the right choice

 

[hotpaws]

If you think a ppg centre is a determinant to that i dont know what else to say....

of course you wouldn't but i'll help

the NHL has a hard cap and you ice a 20 man roster so you can't simply load up on 11m dollar players and then turn a blind eye to the rest of the roster and believe you can easily get quality fill in's at dollar store prices

 

[ULF_55]

M & M have nmc's and they kick in as soon as allowed under the cba .

i've been married for over 30 years but i've seen many marriages that should/needed to end , it always comes down to the circumstances and in this case i'll keep the kids and try to move the old chick before the looks go , lol

Yes, but those clause are valid beginning 23-24, so effectively they're just living together. ;-)

Yeah, 32 for me and we agree on many things, but like you know we are still individuals.

 

[Walshy7]

Between, the two, Hunter. Dubas only temporarily swayed my opinion because he was able to net JT. I don't believe for a minute Hunter would have gotten taken to the cleaners on contracts for the big 3, nor would he have moved Kadri for the package he ended up giving him up for.

Unlike Dubas, I also believe Hunter fundamentally saw/anticipated a root issue with this team and how important we needed size,physicality, and compete- hence why he always went for home-run picks with late picks. None of them panned out, but I had no inherent problem with his strategy. I would have preferred he would have been more strategic about his selections but don't fault him for trying.

The only big problem I had with Hunter was I believe he was very pro-Babcock and pro-Lou, and I don't think he would have been the long-term solution either.

he anticipated a problem and failed with every attempt to draft a “fix” for that problem. They weren’t all late picks rasanen was a 2nd and gordeev a 3rd they are top 60 picks just thrown away on talentless giants

 

[Menzinger]

of course you wouldn't but i'll help

the NHL has a hard cap and you ice a 20 man roster so you can't simply load up on 11m dollar players and then turn a blind eye to the rest of the roster and believe you can easily get quality fill in's at dollar store prices

Id rather.have Tavares + Soup than JVR and Bozak for essentially a similar caphit.

To suggest that Tavares is whats stopping this team from succeeding is absurd imo

 

[ULF_55]

of course you wouldn't but i'll help

the NHL has a hard cap and you ice a 20 man roster so you can't simply load up on 11m dollar players and then turn a blind eye to the rest of the roster and believe you can easily get quality fill in's at dollar store prices

Do you think then that one of marner or Matthews should be dealt?

I'd be okay with either, I have my preference because I believe goals > assists when it comes to forwards and offense.

 

[hotpaws]

Do you think then that one of marner or Matthews should be dealt?

I'd be okay with either, I have my preference because I believe goals > assists when it comes to forwards and offense.

non of MNM should be moved and to me goals vs assists mean nothing , i go by who's driving the line and Marner drives the play so he's just as important as the person scoring

Mathews is unique since he can score off a nothing play and doesn't have to rely on a perfect set up or hanging around the crease for a tip in or a rebound .
also the age difference is a huge factor in who i would keep

 

[ULF_55]

non of MNM should be moved and to me goals vs assists mean nothing , i go by who's driving the line and Marner drives the play so he's just as important as the person scoring

Mathews is unique since he can score off a nothing play and doesn't have to rely on a perfect set up or hanging around the crease for a tip in or a rebound .
also the age difference is a huge factor in who i would keep

Don't get me wrong, I think they have one too many in double digits up front.

 

[hotpaws]

Id rather.have Tavares + Soup than JVR and Bozak for essentially a similar caphit.

To suggest that Tavares is whats stopping this team from succeeding is absurd imo

and i'd have rather kept Kadri and the extra 7m in cap space as opposed to JT

there were more options than trying to spin it like you're trying to do

a team is more can be more or less than the sum of it's parts and every part has to fit to maximize the teams effectiveness so the question isn't whether JT is stopping the team from succeeding but whether he was the most effective use of cap space to help the team succeed