Proposal: Hertl to NYR (with agreement on long-term contract)

[One Winged Angel]

About 4 hours after this comment Chytil put up a hat trick against the Islanders opening night lineup with all 3 goals being absolute snipes on Sorokin including the OT winner. But yeah, the center that just put up 22 points in 41 games in his 21 year old season with no powerplay time and playing strictly 3rd line minutes is a bust. Sharks haven’t had a youngster as good as Chytil since…Hertl

I know you didn’t ask for it, but here’s a body bag for him.

 

[Nabrules]

Lol every deal a NYR fan makes they put Chytil. Remember the hype he can in 2018 lmao

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

About 4 hours after this comment Chytil put up a hat trick against the Islanders opening night lineup with all 3 goals being absolute snipes on Sorokin including the OT winner. But yeah, the center that just put up 22 points in 41 games in his 21 year old season with no powerplay time and playing strictly 3rd line minutes is a bust. Sharks haven’t had a youngster as good as Chytil since…Hertl

Bizz is the Sharks fan equivalent of bernmeister.

And the Sharks just beat the Knights 5-0, does that mean they’re a cup contender?

It’s a preseason game.

I like chytil, but cmon man.

To say SJ hasn’t had anyone comparable at that age since Hertl is wrong. Meier and LaBanc were very comparable. Wouldn’t be surprised if Eklund puts those numbers up in his first year either.
All their third NHL seasons with a comparable age at the time of the seasons in question.

Chytil: 0.52ppg
Timo Meier: 0.85ppg
Kevin LaBanc: 0.68 ppg

If you want to go off their first three years, all at comparable ages as well.

Chytil : 0.38ppg
LaBanc : 0.54ppg
Meier : 0.66ppg

 

[smoneil]

Bizz is the Sharks fan equivalent of bernmeister.

And the Sharks just beat the Knights 5-0, does that mean they’re a cup contender?

It’s a preseason game.

I like chytil, but cmon man.

To say SJ hasn’t had anyone comparable at that age since Hertl is wrong. Meier and LaBanc were very comparable. Wouldn’t be surprised if Eklund puts those numbers up in his first year either.
All their third NHL seasons with a comparable age at the time of the seasons in question.

Chytil: 0.52ppg
Timo Meier: 0.85ppg
Kevin LaBanc: 0.68 ppg

If you want to go off their first three years, all at comparable ages as well.

Chytil : 0.38ppg
LaBanc : 0.54ppg
Meier : 0.66ppg

LaBanc's 3rd season isn't the comparable age. Chytil turned 21 just before the start of his 3rd season. LaBanc turned 23 in December of his 3rd season. It would be LaBanc's 1st or 2nd season (depending on how you'd like to handicap it--either the season where he started younger than Chytil but spent most of it as the same age, or the second season, where he started at 21, but spent most of the season at 22). Even if you go with LaBanc's 2nd season, it would be .52 ppg for both players. That means your point is valid, right? Not quite. Almost half of LaBanc's production that year came on the power play, where he played on the first unit. Almost every PP point he has that season includes Pavelski and/or Couture (usually both), and Hertl shows up on the score sheet with LaBanc fairly often as well. TLDR, even if you give the edge to LaBanc by selecting his second season, where he was 22 for most of the year, he still draws even with Chytil, despite LaBanc getting more than a minute more ice time per game, getting copious PP time, and playing regular shifts with three of SJ's top four scorers that season (Chytil never plays with the Rangers top players--he usually skated with AAAA guys like Gauthier, Rooney, DiGiuseppe, etc). Put another way--Chytil's 5v5 PPG was still .52. LaBanc's was .30. LaBanc was clearly the 3rd best player on his line, whereas Chytil was often the only player driving his line.

So what about Meier? Well, when he and Chytil were the same age, (Meier's second season), Meier put up .44 ppg. And that was with Meier getting more than a minute and a half more ice time per game AND getting power play time (his 5v5 PPG was .40).

Funny how it was clear (as you literally repeated the "comparable age" part of his point) that the comparison was age-based, and yet you intentionally went for seasons where the SJ guys were 1.5 years (LaBanc) and 1 full year (Meier) older than Chytil was at the start of last season.

You fudging the age-comparable season for your two guys to make it seem like they are comparable to what Chytil has been doing is the best piece of evidence anyone could have that Lays was right. If he was wrong, you wouldn't have had to try and misrepresent the numbers/ages so obviously.

 

[CanadienShark]

Didnt take long for this post to age poorly. That "waiver wire trash", as you so eloquently put it, has 2 beautiful goals tonight.

Edit: Hat trick ot winner. Karma is a bitch eh?

You know what Karma is?

 

[jMoneyBrah]

DW has already gone on record saying the Sharks 1st round picks for the forseeable future are off limits.

Actually, coming out of the draft he said that the cupboard has been restocked and that the team is looking to win. When asked if he’d consider trading firsts he responded that nothing is off the table and that he’d consider offers that would make his team better now and in the future.

As a vocal advocate for a Sharks rebuild, it was notable to me that he DID NOT explicitly say that all future first round picks are off limits. Reading between the lines, I interpreted his comments to mean that he’s probably not planning on shopping those picks but wouldn’t rule out spending them for a trade that he estimates better positions the team to contend in the near/intermediate future.

How one feels about what, ostensibly, trading Hertl and a 1st for Eichel does for the Sharks future is subjective - but, at least according to what Wilson said coming out of the draft, it’s not outside of the realm of possibility.

 

[The S5]

Lol every deal a NYR fan makes they put Chytil. Remember the hype he can in 2018 lmao

So, is that what you use to evaluate a player? A bunch of internet fans making fantasy trade proposals? It's an honest question because reading half the garbage on this board, its hard to come to any other conclusion.

 

[The S5]

LaBanc's 3rd season isn't the comparable age. Chytil turned 21 just before the start of his 3rd season. LaBanc turned 23 in December of his 3rd season. It would be LaBanc's 1st or 2nd season (depending on how you'd like to handicap it--either the season where he started younger than Chytil but spent most of it as the same age, or the second season, where he started at 21, but spent most of the season at 22). Even if you go with LaBanc's 2nd season, it would be .52 ppg for both players. That means your point is valid, right? Not quite. Almost half of LaBanc's production that year came on the power play, where he played on the first unit. Almost every PP point he has that season includes Pavelski and/or Couture (usually both), and Hertl shows up on the score sheet with LaBanc fairly often as well. TLDR, even if you give the edge to LaBanc by selecting his second season, where he was 22 for most of the year, he still draws even with Chytil, despite LaBanc getting more than a minute more ice time per game, getting copious PP time, and playing regular shifts with three of SJ's top four scorers that season (Chytil never plays with the Rangers top players--he usually skated with AAAA guys like Gauthier, Rooney, DiGiuseppe, etc). Put another way--Chytil's 5v5 PPG was still .52. LaBanc's was .30. LaBanc was clearly the 3rd best player on his line, whereas Chytil was often the only player driving his line.

So what about Meier? Well, when he and Chytil were the same age, (Meier's second season), Meier put up .44 ppg. And that was with Meier getting more than a minute and a half more ice time per game AND getting power play time (his 5v5 PPG was .40).

Funny how it was clear (as you literally repeated the "comparable age" part of his point) that the comparison was age-based, and yet you intentionally went for seasons where the SJ guys were 1.5 years (LaBanc) and 1 full year (Meier) older than Chytil was at the start of last season.

You fudging the age-comparable season for your two guys to make it seem like they are comparable to what Chytil has been doing is the best piece of evidence anyone could have that Lays was right. If he was wrong, you wouldn't have had to try and misrepresent the numbers/ages so obviously.

Oooof! Now go get your shine box!!

 

[TGWL]

Lol every deal a NYR fan makes they put Chytil. Remember the hype he can in 2018 lmao

Because most deals are for high end centers, where teams would need a center coming back. You give to get. Asking for Eichel or Hertl and offering Strome instead of Chytil is unrealistic.

 

[5cotland]

Hertl's agent is allowed to speak with NY and come up with a contract - 6 years 7.5m (34yo at end)

the trade includes:

Tomas Hertl ([5.625 x 1], signed after)
2022 3rd pick (SJ)

for

Filip Chytil (2.3 x 2 RFA)
one of Nils Lundkvist/Zac Jones
2022 1st rd pick (NYR)

NYR wasnt moving either Lundkvist or Schnieder for Eichel. No way would they get moved for Hertl.

I think San Jose could get more.


This is essentially Justin Barron + Tyson Jost + Colorado 2023 1st for Hertl. And I would easily offer that package for Hertl. I'd give up a fair bit more actually.

The fact you think Barron is on Par with Lundkvist and Jost is equal to Chytil is quite embarrassing.

The reality of this is that if you're acquiring Hertl, you're getting a 1C caliber player and not a 2C. So if you view him as a 2C then yea it's overkill but I think it's fair if you're getting mid-range 1C.

Hertl is no wear near a 1C player.

Ahhh, what? Lundkvist and Barron are significant closer then Newhook and Lundkvist.

Both Dmen are late 1st round picks who play similar games and have very similar projections.

The fact that you are literally comparing a player who has played pro hockey since he was 17 and became one of the best defensmen in Sweden as well as being named as an alternate captain for the Sweden national team to some one who has played 7 pro games in his life is actually quite amazing.

The homer glasses in your observation is actually baffling.

 

[Groo]

NYR wasnt moving either Lundkvist or Schnieder for Eichel. No way would they get moved for Hertl.


The fact you think Barron is on Par with Lundkvist and Jost is equal to Chytil is quite embarrassing.


Hertl is no wear near a 1C player.



The fact that you are literally comparing a player who has played pro hockey since he was 17 and became one of the best defensmen in Sweden as well as being named as an alternate captain for the Sweden national team to some one who has played 7 pro games in his life is actually quite amazing.

The homer glasses in your observation is actually baffling.

So are yours

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Lol every deal a NYR fan makes they put Chytil. Remember the hype he can in 2018 lmao

You're so right! Chytil is the new Ryder, Halak and a 2nd.

 

[5cotland]

So are yours

Where did I go wrong?

 

[Groo]

Where did I go wrong?

Hertl is no wear near a 1C player.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

LaBanc's 3rd season isn't the comparable age. Chytil turned 21 just before the start of his 3rd season. LaBanc turned 23 in December of his 3rd season. It would be LaBanc's 1st or 2nd season (depending on how you'd like to handicap it--either the season where he started younger than Chytil but spent most of it as the same age, or the second season, where he started at 21, but spent most of the season at 22). Even if you go with LaBanc's 2nd season, it would be .52 ppg for both players. That means your point is valid, right? Not quite. Almost half of LaBanc's production that year came on the power play, where he played on the first unit. Almost every PP point he has that season includes Pavelski and/or Couture (usually both), and Hertl shows up on the score sheet with LaBanc fairly often as well. TLDR, even if you give the edge to LaBanc by selecting his second season, where he was 22 for most of the year, he still draws even with Chytil, despite LaBanc getting more than a minute more ice time per game, getting copious PP time, and playing regular shifts with three of SJ's top four scorers that season (Chytil never plays with the Rangers top players--he usually skated with AAAA guys like Gauthier, Rooney, DiGiuseppe, etc). Put another way--Chytil's 5v5 PPG was still .52. LaBanc's was .30. LaBanc was clearly the 3rd best player on his line, whereas Chytil was often the only player driving his line.

So what about Meier? Well, when he and Chytil were the same age, (Meier's second season), Meier put up .44 ppg. And that was with Meier getting more than a minute and a half more ice time per game AND getting power play time (his 5v5 PPG was .40).

Funny how it was clear (as you literally repeated the "comparable age" part of his point) that the comparison was age-based, and yet you intentionally went for seasons where the SJ guys were 1.5 years (LaBanc) and 1 full year (Meier) older than Chytil was at the start of last season.

You fudging the age-comparable season for your two guys to make it seem like they are comparable to what Chytil has been doing is the best piece of evidence anyone could have that Lays was right. If he was wrong, you wouldn't have had to try and misrepresent the numbers/ages so obviously.

I didn’t use same age seasons as most guys typically need a year to get used to the pace of the NHL coming straight from juniors and LaBanc/Timo’s rookie seasons happened a year later in age for them.

None of this is a knock of Chytil at all. I think he’s a good player and I’d be happy to have him in SJ, just saying Timo and LaBanc were roughly “as good of youngsters.”

The age difference between Timo and Chytil their third seasons wasn’t even a full year, so acting like that is some huge misrepresentation is bogus.

Even LaBanc’s age 22 season compared to Chytil’s last season, age 21, were very comparable in points.

Points are points, regardless if they’re 5v5 or PPP. Why wasn’t Chytil good enough to crack the power play? See how you can twist that for whatever argument you want?

Regardless, to the original point of “not having any youngsters as good as Chytil since Hertl” is false.

Meier > Chytil > LaBanc, but it’s not a stretch to say they are all very comparable, so my point still stands unless you want to be pedantic.

That being said, I’d definitely take the original offer if Hertl makes it clear he is not resigning in SJ unless Rossi + or Newhook + were offered.

 

[Nabrules]

So, is that what you use to evaluate a player? A bunch of internet fans making fantasy trade proposals? It's an honest question because reading half the garbage on this board, its hard to come to any other conclusion.

this wasn’t anything against Chytil but he hasn’t really taken the step rangers fans expected back in 2018 and 2019. To me seems like a 3C realistically. It seems he always gets thrown into this trade talks becuase of his age and position. If I were another team I’d want one of the Winger of defence prospects NY has, more upside.

 

[CanadienShark]

NYR wasnt moving either Lundkvist or Schnieder for Eichel. No way would they get moved for Hertl.


The fact you think Barron is on Par with Lundkvist and Jost is equal to Chytil is quite embarrassing.


Hertl is no wear near a 1C player.



The fact that you are literally comparing a player who has played pro hockey since he was 17 and became one of the best defensmen in Sweden as well as being named as an alternate captain for the Sweden national team to some one who has played 7 pro games in his life is actually quite amazing.

The homer glasses in your observation is actually baffling.

Hertl is absolutely a #1C.

 

[5cotland]

Hertl is no wear near a 1C player.

He isnt.

He has never had a PPG season and only got close once. His offensive number are not that of a 1C.

 

[Groo]

He isnt.

He has never had a PPG season and only got close once. His offensive number are not that of a 1C.

Is a stat sheet all you have to go on? Reads like it

 

[TGWL]

I didn’t use same age seasons as most guys typically need a year to get used to the pace of the NHL coming straight from juniors and LaBanc/Timo’s rookie seasons happened a year later in age for them.

None of this is a knock of Chytil at all. I think he’s a good player and I’d be happy to have him in SJ, just saying Timo and LaBanc were roughly “as good of youngsters.”

The age difference between Timo and Chytil their third seasons wasn’t even a full year, so acting like that is some huge misrepresentation is bogus.

Even LaBanc’s age 22 season compared to Chytil’s last season, age 21, were very comparable in points.

Points are points, regardless if they’re 5v5 or PPP. Why wasn’t Chytil good enough to crack the power play? See how you can twist that for whatever argument you want?

Regardless, to the original point of “not having any youngsters as good as Chytil since Hertl” is false.

Meier > Chytil > LaBanc, but it’s not a stretch to say they are all very comparable, so my point still stands unless you want to be pedantic.

That being said, I’d definitely take the original offer if Hertl makes it clear he is not resigning in SJ unless Rossi + or Newhook + were offered.

Because our coach basically used 1 powerplay unit.

 

[TGWL]

He isnt.

He has never had a PPG season and only got close once. His offensive number are not that of a 1C.

I think you're more referring to Hertl being a high end #1 center. No, he's not a top 10 center. And maybe you can claim there's not really enough #1C's in the league for every team if you're going to only use high end tier #1C players, but you'd be better off just saying he's not a franchise center than going down that path.

 

[Groo]

I think you're more referring to Hertl being a high end #1 center. No, he's not a top 10 center. And maybe you can claim there's not really enough #1C's in the league for every team if you're going to only use high end tier #1C players, but you'd be better off just saying he's not a franchise center than going down that path.

No he stated Hertls " no wear near being a 1c player" Spelling for quoted accuracy

 

[One Winged Angel]

I didn’t use same age seasons as most guys typically need a year to get used to the pace of the NHL coming straight from juniors and LaBanc/Timo’s rookie seasons happened a year later in age for them.

You could have stopped there.

The age difference between Timo and Chytil their third seasons wasn’t even a full year, so acting like that is some huge misrepresentation is bogus.

So you didn't use same age seasons because "...most guys typically need a year to get used to the pace of the NHL..." but an age gap of a year give or take isn't a huge misrepresentation WHILE adjusting to the NHL.

Let's pick a story and stick with it.

Points are points, regardless if they’re 5v5 or PPP.

So how points come doesn't matter, as that provides zero analysis on how effective a player is in certain situations.

Got it.

Why wasn’t Chytil good enough to crack the power play?

Why don't you ask the moron who thought it was a good idea to line up 5 righties on PP1 while giving PP2 almost no time?

I'm sure he'll have a lot of free time to talk to you, since he's not coaching right now.

See how you can twist that for whatever argument you want?

Sure, if you want to continue to be blatantly obtuse.

 

[Lays]

Bizz is the Sharks fan equivalent of bernmeister.

And the Sharks just beat the Knights 5-0, does that mean they’re a cup contender?

It’s a preseason game.

I like chytil, but cmon man.

To say SJ hasn’t had anyone comparable at that age since Hertl is wrong. Meier and LaBanc were very comparable. Wouldn’t be surprised if Eklund puts those numbers up in his first year either.
All their third NHL seasons with a comparable age at the time of the seasons in question.

Chytil: 0.52ppg
Timo Meier: 0.85ppg
Kevin LaBanc: 0.68 ppg

If you want to go off their first three years, all at comparable ages as well.

Chytil : 0.38ppg
LaBanc : 0.54ppg
Meier : 0.66ppg

How much PP and Top 6 time did Meier and Labanc get at the same age as Chytil? Chytil didn’t play either

 

[Lays]

And again, Sharks fans trying to boost his value by nearly double by offering him with an extension makes 0 sense for NYR. This is NYR, not Arizona or Buffalo, we don’t need an extension guarantee just so you guys can add in Schneider. If he gets traded here, he will want to re-sign.