Post-Game Talk: Helmet toss

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3 stars

  • Mika

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Kreider

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vesey

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Trochek

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Panarin

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Taco Taco

    Votes: 7 9.0%
  • Laf

    Votes: 4 5.1%
  • Goodrow

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • Krav

    Votes: 5 6.4%
  • Blais

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Carpenter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Goat

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Fox

    Votes: 5 6.4%
  • Lindgren

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Trouba

    Votes: 37 47.4%
  • Miller

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Halak

    Votes: 4 5.1%
  • Schnieder

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Trouba's helmet

    Votes: 47 60.3%
  • Halak

    Votes: 4 5.1%
  • Shesty

    Votes: 23 29.5%

  • Total voters
    78
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Glenn Sathers Rangers is the equivalent to the United States Congress

ineffective, inefficient and friends profiting from position of power

It's been shit for how long now? 22 years. Laffy and Kakko weren't born yet, but they're the problem
 
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It what Edge says is true, which I wholeheartedly believe, extending Kreider instead of trading him for Robertson + was one of the dumbest decisions any GM could have made (Gorts).



Crazy thing is this was also true under Quinn who was supposedly a “developmental coach”.

Bitch didn’t have the patience to open with a simple Slav, French or Sicilian defense. Great hiring there Gorts.

Literally, f*** everybody that has touched this franchise with a pole from 10 feet away over the last half-decade.
I really liked Gorton and I think a lot of the work him and Clark did from the late 2000s to around 2013 was instrumental to a lot of the fun times we witnessed for the 2011-12, 2013-14, 2014-15, and 2016-17 runs. I also really enjoyed the 2010-11 regular season.

However begging Quinn to come to the Rangers and spotty drafting where like 7-8 prospects demanded trades or quit on the organization left a sour taste in my mouth.
 
It’s especially strange in light of how much Panarin is going out of his way to help Kravtsov.

Which begs the question why we have not heard about similar relationships being built with Kakko or Lafreniere with other vets.

A mentorship has to be a 2-way relationship so perhaps it is unfair to pin a lack of one on only the veteran players.

But remember when Crosby lived in Lemieux’s basement? Or Matthews and Marner hanging out with Marleau and his kids all the time? Why the hell have we not heard similar with the NYR?

Instead we have prospects like Andersson and Kravtsov fleeing the org and experiencing conflict with the org.

I’m not saying the players are blameless, do not get me wrong. But it sure seems like the entire org can give 2 shits about their development. And there is no doubt the players can feel that every single day.
You just gave me flashbacks to “Road to the Winter Classic”. Rookie Couturier living with Briere and his kids. You never see that in the Rangers org.
 
This is all fine but as I've said before none of this supports Kreider getting as much even strength minutes as he does. Give him all the PP time you want but cut back his even strength minutes. He should be like a Johan Franzen type PP specialist. Kreider had the second most even strength time tonight.
He's been fine at even strength actually. 8 of his 12 goals and 13 of his 22 points have been at even strength. Who the hell else actually scores at even strength?
 
It’s especially strange in light of how much Panarin is going out of his way to help Kravtsov.

Which begs the question why we have not heard about similar relationships being built with Kakko or Lafreniere with other vets.

A mentorship has to be a 2-way relationship so perhaps it is unfair to pin a lack of one on only the veteran players.

But remember when Crosby lived in Lemieux’s basement? Or Matthews and Marner hanging out with Marleau and his kids all the time? Why the hell have we not heard similar with the NYR?

Instead we have prospects like Andersson and Kravtsov fleeing the org and experiencing conflict with the org.

I’m not saying the players are blameless, do not get me wrong. But it sure seems like the entire org can give 2 shits about their development. And there is no doubt the players can feel that every single day.

I think this organization tries so hard to be about a "tough love, you gotta earn it kid" old-school mentality that we actually just end up treating young players like crap to a certain extent. I also think no one in our vet core has the foresight or alpha personality to mentor young players. Zibanejad, Kreider and Panarin to me seem like the type of people at work who are perfectly nice and respectful but also are out the door at 5 PM and not answering texts for assistance on the weekend. People like Crosby and Marleau understand how much it helps the team when young players develop properly and will actually go above and beyond to try to make that happen.
 
Per Natural Stat Trick, the Rangers have 4 players in the top 40 of the league in individual HDCF at 5v5. Two of those players are Kakko (28) & Lafreniere(27). The other 2 are Trocheck (33, T-12th leaguewide) and Kreider(28). Exactly one of those 4 has a shooting percentage higher than 7% at 5v5.

On the other hand, Panarin has 8. f***ing. 8.
EDIT: There is not a single F in the league with more minutes at 5v5 & less iHDCF. I checked the whole list.
Sorry, I'm not following. Panarin has 8 what?
 
This doesn't get brought up enough. There's been no attempt to integrate the young core with the old core. The respective successes of those two groups are completely separate. Separate lines, separate PP units. The kids work hard to draw a penalty at evens just for the old core to soak up the entire two minute power play.

No other team operates like this. Part of the "gig" for people like Panarin, Zibanejad and Kreider should be helping the young players come along and develop yet this team has essentially done the opposite by hermetically sealing the old core apart from the young core. We don't have one unified NY Rangers team, we have a varsity Rangers and a JV Rangers both operating individually with separate goals and rewards.
This is key because I don't think you can't get a couple of free agents and do an expedited rebuild. But if you're doing that, the plan and expectations have to be crystal clear. They've been the opposite.

And I don't blame the players. I don't believe that they don't care. I know they want the young players to succeed. It's just, like, what are they supposed to do? It wasn't built to be a cohesive team.

The Devils had a plan. All of their young players profile as speedy and skilled. They're not "gritty" in the sense that they're gonna hit a lot but they all have that tenacity. They're all on a mission because they have a mission. They're gonna use their speed to cause problems and use their hands to capitalize on turnovers.

It's not as simple as "nuke the team and give Lafreniere the C and 23 minutes day one." The Devils papered holes with vets like Hamilton, Subban, Marino, Tatar, and Palat.

It's just, we don't have that profile. We have four lines and four styles.

Lafreniere and Kakko aren't fast. Neither is Jason Robertson and he's gonna score like 112 goals this year. Panarin also likes to pull up and play at his own pace. We've done nothing to incorporate that into a system. We're just going up and down the rink slower than the other team, playing their game slower than they do.
 
It what Edge says is true, which I wholeheartedly believe, extending Kreider instead of trading him for Robertson + was one of the dumbest decisions any GM could have made (Gorts).



Crazy thing is this was also true under Quinn who was supposedly a “developmental coach”.

Bitch didn’t have the patience to open with a simple Slav, French or Sicilian defense. Great hiring there Gorts.

Literally, f*** everybody that has touched this franchise with a pole from 10 feet away over the last half-decade.
That's obviously easy to say now when Robinson has been great. Everybody would like to turn the clock back on that one for sure. Kreider has still played to his contract which at 6.5 mil isn't looking that bad considering what some others are being paid. 52 goals last year and on pace for 37 this year is nothing to sneeze at.
 
This franchise has always had a terrible record at firing a coach that needed to have got gone much earlier. Sather backed Torts then fired him after a week. It took so long for Vigneault to be fire, Vigneault had time to write a 5 minute speech about his 20 year career and present it at his game 82 post game presser. They took so long to fire Quinn, Gorton and Davidson got fired before Quinn did.

Can we just for once fire a guy in a timely manner and before the car is already over the cliff before we pump the brakes?
Fire as many coaches as you want. The roster that remains still sucks & the owner with his pet Sather still run things. Garbage in - garbage out.
 
Also, while it's ok to have a core of players that's not particularly fast, and you can adapt to that, you should probably, I don't know, maybe not be the slowest team of all-time and throw in a different look here and there.

We've made absolutely no effort in that regard. Every guy we acquire is slower than the last one.

Lafreniere is not an entry guy. His Junior highlights are filled with him making a play as the trailer. Who's carrying the puck in or retrieving it to get it back to Lafreniere? Barclay Goodrow???

I know Lafreniere has his problems, but for God sake, at least f***ing try to play to his strengths a little bit.
 
Never having developed a core plan for what to do with LaFreniere is also completely unacceptable.

Right now he's getting 12-13 minutes per game and it's not working.

As soon as the Rangers got the number one pick there needed to be an all hands on deck meeting where everyone from the coaching staff to management locked themselves in a bunker and answered this question:

We are about to draft Alexis LaFreniere first overall. He plays left wing. We have Artemi Panarin and Chris Kreider who also play left wing signed long term. What is our concrete, actionable plan to make this work?

Instead, we made that pick and just kind of said "eh, it'll all sort itself out."
 
I think this organization tries so hard to be about a "tough love, you gotta earn it kid" old-school mentality that we actually just end up treating young players like crap to a certain extent. I also think no one in our vet core has the foresight or alpha personality to mentor young players. Zibanejad, Kreider and Panarin to me seem like the type of people at work who are perfectly nice and respectful but also are out the door at 5 PM and not answering texts for assistance on the weekend. People like Crosby and Marleau understand how much it helps the team when young players develop properly and will actually go above and beyond to try to make that happen.
And therein lies one of the problems...Rangers were never built/constructed to be a "team" -- they are a bunch of players thrown together with the hope that something wondrous will happen.
 
Never having developed a core plan for what to do with LaFreniere is also completely unacceptable.

Right now he's getting 12-13 minutes per game and it's not working.

As soon as the Rangers got the number one pick there needed to be an all hands on deck meeting where everyone from the coaching staff to management locked themselves in a bunker and answered this question:

We are about to draft Alexis LaFreniere first overall. He plays left wing. We have Artemi Panarin and Chris Kreider who also play left wing signed long term. What is our concrete, actionable plan to make this work?

Instead, we made that pick and just kind of said "eh, it'll all sort itself out."

The plan turned out to be "let's move him to the opposite wing" -- when he didn't immediately play like a superstar, he was relegated to the third line.
 
I don't like to dump everything on the coach, but Dolan isn't selling and Sather it's evidently immortal at this point. A new coach might be all that we can do.

We need somebody to tell the kids and the vets "look, this is what we're doing, and the bench is that way if you don't like it." Whoever fails, fails.

At least we'll know who we are and where we stand.
 
The plan turned out to be "let's move him to the opposite wing" -- when he didn't immediately play like a superstar, he was relegated to the third line.
Actually he played pretty well at RW. We decided we didn't like that either.

Gallant wants a grinder with Kreider and Zibanejad because that's his weird kink that every coach has, and that I put 100% on Gallant.
 
Observations on tonight:

EFFORT:
-Trouba at least tried to send a message. He's played like crap all year, but at least you can't deny that he cares. His postgame comments were probably the most telling aspect of this.
-Starting to lay more of this at the feet of the coaching staff. The systems just aren't there. The puck support is nonexistent. The powerplay is stagnant. Players don't move. Our offensive system has become what it did during late stage Tortorella - grind along the boards and pass the puck around the perimeter till everyone's tired and eventually turn it over. No one is open, and worse, no one is moving to get open. At even strength, the D don't activate EVER (except Fox).
-The breakouts are horrendous. If I had a dollar every time this team just blind dumped the puck out to the redline, I could retire right now. But below the circles, they are consistently weak on clearing attempts when under pressure, and it leads to more blown zone clears than any other team in the league (just based on the eye test).
-This coach is clueless if he liked the effort tonight. Other than Lafreniere's missed open net, they didn't get any good looks for their supposedly "superior" first period. They were held to the outside exclusively besides that, and maintained possession of the puck but did not force the goalie to make any tough saves.

LINEUPS / PLAYERS:
-Trocheck and Panarin have no chemistry at all. Period, full stop. I never want to see these two on the ice at the same time again. Kravtsov had a decent effort, but it was apparent neither he nor Panarin could work with Trocheck at even strength.
-Trocheck has 5 points at even strength all year. It's time to demote him behind Chytil whenever Chytil plays in the lineup again - and put him with Laf and Gauthier where his playstyle is more compatible.
-Trocheck does not belong on the first PP anymore. Put Kakko there. Put Laffy there. Put Kravtsov there. I don't care, just put one of the left handed first rounders there to one-time pucks from the circle and provide a counter to Zibanejad. Trocheck literally adds nothing to that PP unit. They played awful all game, and Zibanejad's goal was as much a result of Chcago blowing a coverage on a play they were expecting than anything else.
-WHY is Goodrow centering the kids?
-WHY is Vesey still on the first line? He did nothing again, and actively hurt us with poor on ice decisions on several potential scoring plays, but they still resulted in low percentage shots on goal, so I'm guessing most people (and the coaching staff) won't notice or care.
-Why did Ryan Carpenter get another shift in the game afte his HORRENDOUS hooking penalty leading to the 5-on-3? That was a lazy play that wasn't necessary to make on a PK, and it led to 2 goals. Should have been benched for the remainder after that.
-Down 2 late, and not a kid anywhere near the ice. Plenty of Goodrow and Trocheck again though!
-Halak did not have a good game, but honestly I don't care. Fact is, the team played games exactly like tonight for the better part of 15 years and often won because Lundqvist won games he had no business winning, so maybe if this franchise is ever going to win a Cup again before returning to its (apparently) rightful place as the laughingstock of the league, they need to look every bit as bad on the scoresheet as they are playing in order to do it.

My favorite part is the observations of my wife, who had never watched an NHL game before we started dating 11 years ago. She doesn't watch them all, but even she can see what's wrong with this team. Watching her yell, "Why are they all standing around? MOVE!" as they pass the puck around the perimeter incessantly on the powerplay both warms and breaks my heart.
 
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I just want a team that looks like Quenneville is coaching it

Imagine having your team play like Florida of last year or Devils of this year?

This season is just pure pain.
 
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Lafreniere absolutely sucks right now but I was watching highlights from the playoffs the other night and it was wild how much better he looked. yeah they were just highlights and he didn't light up the score sheet then either but it reminded me of how he looked. he was constantly creating chances and hounding the puck, making nice little plays with the puck or against a defender that led to chances. he was full of confidence for once, wtf happened to him? it looked like he had finally turned a corner. he looks so much slower and low energy now.
 
That's obviously easy to say now when Robinson has been great. Everybody would like to turn the clock back on that one for sure. Kreider has still played to his contract which at 6.5 mil isn't looking that bad considering what some others are being paid. 52 goals last year and on pace for 37 this year is nothing to sneeze at.
Doesn't matter that Robinson turned so great. Keeping Kreider was a mistake any way you slice it. Guy it part of the rotten veteran core we have.
 
Follow up - if I'm the coach, this is what I do next game:

Carpenter sits:
20-93-24
10-72-74
13-16-12
91-21-26

55-23
6-8
25-4
(Miller needs to sit a game as a wakeup, he's been awful...but only one)

31
41

PP:
20-93-24-10-23
13-16-72-6-4

If the PP1 doesn't establish possession and look strong, then the PP2 starts the next powerplay, and Kakko takes Trocheck's spot on it.
 
I just want a team that looks like Quenneville is coaching it

Imagine having your team play like Florida of last year or Devils of this year?

This season is just pure pain.
Quenneville coached Florida for like 7 games last year.

I think you're letting Cups from awhile ago make a decision for you.

I think Quenneville is just a guy at this point and this desperately needs somebody not recycled.

The Devils are succeeding because they're putting new, young coaches on Ruff's staff.

I could live with Quenneville for his experience but his staff would need to have new blood on it.
 
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