Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[voyageur]

IDK. We were told all preseason about the "competition on the blue line" and how exciting it would be to have an environment in which young players -- because it was only ever going to be the prospects who were competing for that lone spot -- would be going all out to secure 6th and last spot.

We have also heard time and time again that the org is "committed to / invested in" the career of Logan Stanley, suggesting that barring injury he had the 6th spot locked up, leaving 7th D and PB.

Based on that competition for the 6th spot narrative, what evidence do we have that the org seeks blueline balance and has specific roles in mind for prospects in the lengthening queue that is the Jets / Moose blueline? It seems to be that the roles have been set for a while, with Stan as the preferred 6th D , perhaps in some sort of rotation with Samberg, and Capo doing whatever he's doing as a PG plugin.

I don't see that changing this season, which makes perfect sense as they near the stretch looking to solidify the roster and get it playoff ready. And I'm not sure why it would change next season, with Schmidt and Pionk still under contract and neither an easy trade without the Jets retaining, which they seem loathe to do.

Maybe you're right, and the org has a master plan of succession read to roll out in which ripening prospects like Gawanke, Lundmark, Chisholm, Heinola and Samberg will slot right in and replace pricy contracts who are aging out. But it isn't clear how those timelines will add up, and it ignores factors like management's desire to save face over expensive picks or contracts that they are going to want to play to justify the cost of.

How many players has Chevy paid significant cash for, and then looked to trade or even buy out? How much luck will he have with Schmidt or Pionk given that he was ready to let the team's steadiest and most versatile defender in DeMelo walk in the ED?

I think this org does a lot right -- I'm not sure it's done a great job in managing the dev of its young D corps, or in scouting high-value D to bring in as insurance. There's a laundry list of crap D brought in when Stanley and even Samberg might have contributed -- we all remember them, or try to blot them out.

I have no idea at this point whether Heinola will ever be a useful player at the NHL level -- and I'm not sure the Jets do either. But if he doesn't get there, and that failure can be partly chalked up to his spotty usage and long spells not playing over the past three years, that's an expensive miss, and would make the 2nd bust of a first-round pick in a few years, for a team that needs to nail its 1st-rounders.

And that's kind of the main point for me as a fan -- I want our picks to prosper and make a difference as they develop. I'd love it if Stan came back and dominated and pushed out another, bigger contract from our top 6. We're going to need players on ELCs to push on with the big signings coming up. But I don't see a path for many of our D prospects as things stand, and that includes interesting players like Lundmark and Chisholm, or even Gawkanke, who's had no shot in the NHL yet and is now a waiver risk.

So yeah, maybe next year, or the year after. But also maybe not.

Anyhoo, essay over.

I think fans have to be realistic about where a player is at. The same thing came out when Sami Niku had his breakthrough AHL season, and everyone was pinning him as the next top 4 d-man to replace Enstrom, saying that Chiarot was heaping garbage, because his breakouts were off, and should be demoted to promote Niku. Next thing you know Chiarot is playing top pairing in the Stanley Cup on a different team, that eliminated us, while Niku is floundering.

Obviously to compare Heinola and Niku as a skillset would be erroneous, there's more talent in Heinola's game, though I think some of the weaknesses in physicality are similar.

But Heinola isn't at a point where he can replace Pionk or Schmidt. Realistically it's not that close, to what those kind of players bring. In many different ways. His game this year has been closer to Capobianco's, if not worse, which is why he hasn't stuck around. If he has stuck around this long, the Jets are either trying to showcase him, build up his confidence, or appease an agent who would like a cut of some NHL salary as opposed to the $70 000 he would be getting in the A.

Samberg and Stanley haven't passed Dillon in their development either, so it's good to have those two in competition. Two very different skillsets that can matchup differently against different opponents. Both have progressed slowly, but both have clearly shown that they can play in the NHL against elite players, if not consistently.

Gawanke was always a flier pick and his defensive game has inhibited him from being in serious consideration for a promotion. Chisholm didn't have a standout preseason, and I think if you can turn a 5th round pick into a tradeable asset, you've done well. Maybe he gets in that 7/8 discussion next year, if Heinola is the one who moves but it's great that the Jets finally have some depth on defense. There's a lot of years where the team scraped the barrel, with the Julian Melchiori types, or having to go outside the organization for guys like Brian Strait who were in the same position as Chisholm on the depth chart. It's actually quite remarkable how quickly the Jets have gone from Enstrom/Morrissey as #1 LD to Chiarot, Stuart types in the top 4, to having a full stable of prospects.

Heinola's development has been caught somewhere between the urge to rush him, like Morrissey, though Josh got a full year to work things out, and had to step up with Jacob Trouba holding out, and the later maturity of Stanley and Samberg. I think the outside pressure has affected his development, as well as lost time from Covid.

Lundmark is right on schedule to join the team at a time when extending De Melo might not be financially prudent.

I feel like Chevy has drafted to fill holes, with regards to fluency of free agency, and allowed his young players to mature to the right age to be able to compete. The gap on the right side that Schmidt needed to fill would be because the Jets missed on picks Luke Green and Jack Glover, and Jonathan Kovacevic wasn't deemed ready. On the left side I think Samberg playing an extra year of college probably threw off the certainty management had on him, if he had played two full seasons on the Moose instead of 32 career professional games, hard to say that Chevy would have still acquired Dillon.

 

[TS Quint]

IDK. We were told all preseason about the "competition on the blue line" and how exciting it would be to have an environment in which young players -- because it was only ever going to be the prospects who were competing for that lone spot -- would be going all out to secure 6th and last spot.

We have also heard time and time again that the org is "committed to / invested in" the career of Logan Stanley, suggesting that barring injury he had the 6th spot locked up, leaving 7th D and PB.

Based on that competition for the 6th spot narrative, what evidence do we have that the org seeks blueline balance and has specific roles in mind for prospects in the lengthening queue that is the Jets / Moose blueline? It seems to be that the roles have been set for a while, with Stan as the preferred 6th D , perhaps in some sort of rotation with Samberg, and Capo doing whatever he's doing as a PG plugin.

I don't see that changing this season, which makes perfect sense as they near the stretch looking to solidify the roster and get it playoff ready. And I'm not sure why it would change next season, with Schmidt and Pionk still under contract and neither an easy trade without the Jets retaining, which they seem loathe to do.

Maybe you're right, and the org has a master plan of succession read to roll out in which ripening prospects like Gawanke, Lundmark, Chisholm, Heinola and Samberg will slot right in and replace pricy contracts who are aging out. But it isn't clear how those timelines will add up, and it ignores factors like management's desire to save face over expensive picks or contracts that they are going to want to play to justify the cost of.

How many players has Chevy paid significant cash for, and then looked to trade or even buy out? How much luck will he have with Schmidt or Pionk given that he was ready to let the team's steadiest and most versatile defender in DeMelo walk in the ED?

I think this org does a lot right -- I'm not sure it's done a great job in managing the dev of its young D corps, or in scouting high-value D to bring in as insurance. There's a laundry list of crap D brought in when Stanley and even Samberg might have contributed -- we all remember them, or try to blot them out.

I have no idea at this point whether Heinola will ever be a useful player at the NHL level -- and I'm not sure the Jets do either. But if he doesn't get there, and that failure can be partly chalked up to his spotty usage and long spells not playing over the past three years, that's an expensive miss, and would make the 2nd bust of a first-round pick in a few years, for a team that needs to nail its 1st-rounders.

And that's kind of the main point for me as a fan -- I want our picks to prosper and make a difference as they develop. I'd love it if Stan came back and dominated and pushed out another, bigger contract from our top 6. We're going to need players on ELCs to push on with the big signings coming up. But I don't see a path for many of our D prospects as things stand, and that includes interesting players like Lundmark and Chisholm, or even Gawkanke, who's had no shot in the NHL yet and is now a waiver risk.

So yeah, maybe next year, or the year after. But also maybe not.

Anyhoo, essay over.

I think the difference between Heinola and Stanley is the obvious, size.

I think most people understand the common sense of drafting a 5’10 170lbs defender needing some time to develop physically.

I think for the most part fans DO need it explained that just because you draft a hulk he still needs time to develop in other ways. Their talk of investing time into him is more about setting the expectation for his development not handing him a job.

 

[TS Quint]

I think it depends on how he is used.

There's a tale of two different results from Ville Heinola's game this year:

At home (4 games) 0g 1a, +2

On the road (6 games) 0g 0a, -7

Protected he can still be effective, if either of our top two d-men, who I consider Morrissey and Pionk, were injured, I think that Ville would be the only suitable player to replace their offensive output, potentially.

none of that is effective. At best that is treading water.

I get Heinola has a prospect report that lists things he should be good at but those things are not happening in the NHL yet. Schmitt is a far better option to go into a more offensive role if Morrisey or Pionk get hurt. Thats not even a competition.

If you mean offensive output as in PP time, or heavily sheltered offensive zone starts he might get some. But 5 on 5 there is no way he’s getting ahead of even DeMelo or Dillion. That’s the problem. He doesn’t have a very well rounded game.

 

[Jet]

none of that is effective. At best that is treading water.

I get Heinola has a prospect report that lists things he should be good at but those things are not happening in the NHL yet. Schmitt is a far better option to go into a more offensive role if Morrisey or Pionk get hurt. Thats not even a competition.

If you mean offensive output as in PP time, or heavily sheltered offensive zone starts he might get some. But 5 on 5 there is no way he’s getting ahead of even DeMelo or Dillion. That’s the problem. He doesn’t have a very well rounded game.

Yeah for me, if Heinola came in and did the things he is good at at the NHL level (he has done it a bit), then it would be a different conversation. The problem is, he hasn't been doing it consistently, AND he can't do the simpler things that a defenseman with size can.

It's a difficult situation for Ville because I like others think he just needs a run of games, BUT the team is winning now and have set their sights on playoff success and Ville doesn't fit in in that scenario currently.

 

[Crocket]

One thing is for sure. Chevy likes hoarding defenseman now, and he's said repeatedly this year; "you can't have too many defenseman."

I think if we take Cheverolet at his word, he's preparing to go with too many D. To be fair to Capo, he's played quite well for a guy who has to sit in the box 95% of the time, and honestly looks quicker and more poised than Heinola right now. And I'm a big VH fan.

That said, look what happened to Morrissey last night, who maybe escaped bad injury, and was a little banged up last week. you never know. Pionk is rumored t be nursing something. 2 guys go down, and all of a sudden you need VH, Capo and maybe even Stanley.

I'd like to see a D and maybe a prospect moved for a solid RW for 55. This next offseason is going to be very interesting.

 

[TS Quint]

One thing is for sure. Chevy likes hoarding defenseman now, and he's said repeatedly this year; "you can't have too many defenseman."

I think if we take Cheverolet at his word, he's preparing to go with too many D. To be fair to Capo, he's played quite well for a guy who has to sit in the box 95% of the time, and honestly looks quicker and more poised than Heinola right now. And I'm a big VH fan.

That said, look what happened to Morrissey last night, who maybe escaped bad injury, and was a little banged up last week. you never know. Pionk is rumored t be nursing something. 2 guys go down, and all of a sudden you need VH, Capo and maybe even Stanley.

I'd like to see a D and maybe a prospect moved for a solid RW for 55. This next offseason is going to be very interesting.

I wouldn’t say they have too many defensemen right now. I’d the jets have a few defensemen they are waiting to take the job.

 

[cbcwpg]

MSN

 

[larmex99]

MSN

Mostly cloudy with a few sunny periods…..

 

[cbcwpg]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

 

[surixon]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

Looks like he's going to put in all the work he needs to this summer. The kid is about as ready now as he'll ever be. I hope the org gives him an extended opportunity to stick.

He's been a dominant two-way dmen at the AHL level. If he can translate to the NHL then he'll be a key piece of this teams future.

 

[TS Quint]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

About time.

 

[LowLefty]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

Good attitude -
And he's calling out the shortfall(s) some of us have been stating for awhile -
Good for him - I hope he can get there because the issues he is noting will make it hard for him to take the next step

 

[Hunter368]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

I like his answers, next year will be huge for him. His best chance to make the team, decent chance some of our vet D get traded and he will fill one of those positions.

 

[ps241]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

This is EXACTLY what you want to read from a player like Ville. Its an interview, I get it , but he takes ownership and I sense zero victim mentality off what I am reading and that is pretty uncommon these days.

IF HE CAN STAY HEALTHY

I predict he makes the Jets next season and becomes an important piece moving forward. If we run back the same D core then he will need to work his way in when injuries occur but if we move out pieces I think he can play from Day 1. He has put in his development time and passed the mental test. Get in a good summer of conditioning and lets see what he has.

 

[Jet]

I think the stars could be aligning for Ville next year. If the Jets are doing a mini reload give him a spot out of camp and leave him in to play everyday.

Let's give him every opportunity to fulfill his promise. Why not?

 

[bustamente]

I think for Heinola to make the Jets fist he need to become most consistent in his over all play, second the Jets need to move a D man or two. I still think he will be what many think he will eventually be and break thru next year.

 

[ps241]

I think for Heinola to make the Jets fist he need to become most consistent in his over all play, second the Jets need to move a D man or two. I still think he will be what many think he will eventually be and break thru next year.

A few of my random thoughts:

It’s possible we are past our window and if we are there is no reason to run back the veteran D core as is.

Wouldn’t it make sense to use an affordable ELC contact instead of Nate on the bottom pair.

Ville is no longer waiver exempt.

Will Stanley traded as per his wish?

My vote is to use it or lose it with both Ville and Stan. Play or trade at this stage.

 

[DRW204]

Personally don't think Ville has a spot to start next year. The Jets hardly ever trade out out of vet contracts in the offseason, and Copacabana outplayed him too.

 

[MardyBum]

Personally don't think Ville has a spot to start next year. The Jets hardly ever trade out out of vet contracts in the offseason, and Copacabana outplayed him too.

Maybe they can trade him for a 1st like Lundkvist, then draft another dman so they can kick the can down the road another 4 or 5 years and then trade that dman for another 1st and in 2041 when Chevy resigns they can catch on to the rest of the NHL

 

[Buffdog]

I think Snerg showed he can play on the 2nd pairing so it would make sense to move Dillon for a pick (too bad because I really appreciate what he brings) and have Heinola get his feet under him on the 3rd pairing.

I'd also be looking to move Stanley at the draft for a pick and have Copacabana as the 7th D since he seems comfortable playing on either side

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Dillon makes 3.9 million. Nate makes 5.95.

Move them both

 

[DRW204]

Dillon makes 3.9 million. Nate makes 5.95.

Move them both

i think dillon at 50% could get you a late 1st - although they seldom ever retain. but i think the Jets value him highly for the intangibles, and he had a good season on top of that.

 

[KingBogo]

In his year-end presser, Heinola expressed that his mental strength was tested this season when he wasn’t able to stick up with the Jets for more than 10 games. He told reporters, “This year I feel was kind of tough for me mentally. Kinda hoped to get more games up there, I played some games but really wanted to play more,” he related this to improving his mental strength as he needed to keep pushing himself throughout the season in the American Hockey League (AHL).

Heading into a massive offseason for Heinola’s development, he stated, “I’m going to give everything I have this summer. When I come out here I’ve got to perform, I’ve got to play my best. I just want to show those guys they can’t take me out of the lineup anymore.”

When asked what is holding him up the most from taking this leap, he stated, “I feel like the biggest part is getting my strength up, being able to battle there. Of course, getting faster so I can handle the speed, that’s something I really want to focus on.”

I hadn’t seen this. Thanks for posting. I’m with those that believe Heinola cements a position this season.

 

[DRW204]

Maybe they can trade him for a 1st like Lundkvist, then draft another dman so they can kick the can down the road another 4 or 5 years and then trade that dman for another 1st and in 2041 when Chevy resigns they can catch on to the rest of the NHL

ideally id like to keep heinola. but i just don't see where he gets a consistent role on this team this season. and it's been like that over the past few.

i thought he could be at least a 2nd pair Defender and overall had high-potential for us, however as the years gone on that has dwindled away.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maybe they can trade him for a 1st like Lundkvist, then draft another dman so they can kick the can down the road another 4 or 5 years and then trade that dman for another 1st and in 2041 when Chevy resigns they can catch on to the rest of the NHL

I sense a little sarcasm in this post. Or am I imagining it?

Chevy resigning in 41 at the age of 71? Shouldn't he be thinking about retirement by then?