Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[Huffer]

Here's my counter. Ville was public about his frustration that he didn't make the big club this year. Outside of a few games a couple of weeks ago he has not looked NHL caliber. If you are going to basically call out the team you had best prove yourself everytime you are on the ice.

Yes, most of the Jets were putrid last night but as a kid trying to prove himself you can't be as bad as he was last night.

Was Heinola public or did someone ask his agent a question and the agent replied that Ville was dissapointed he didn't make the NHL? I ask because I haven't seen a quote from Heinola, and he never pouted to my knowledge and has played well when sent to the Moose. I don't see any public frustration or calling out the team from him.

I agree that when you're on the bubble that you have less leeway than others to have a poor game. What I am saying though is that he gets yanked back and forth, sat in the pressbox, etc. He's played 34 NHL games and some are talking like he's a finished product. He may not turn into what we would like for sure, but casting definitive judgement at this point on his entire NHL future is unwarranted IMO.

 

[DRW204]

i agree that Heinola has short rope for mistakes compared to the rest of the D Group. you're a rookie/young player that's what will happen (maybe unless you got gritz & size! ). i think for any player of his experience or youth it's hard - especially as a defenseman - to shine when the whole team was crap, but undoubtedly he had a v poor night. i thought he had a solid few games prior to getting sick and missing time. there was a stretch of games samberg struggled this year, stanley struggled immensely last year. they still are around and fought through it. i think the Jets will try to make it work, but im a bit bias since i really liked him pre-draft.

 

[Bob E]

I just don’t know what Heinola’s role is in Bones’ eyes. He doesn’t pk, didn’t really see any pp time last night. And played sparingly on 3rd pair. Samberg and Stanley are used extensively on pk.

Having Heinola in the lineup means Schmidt pks a bit more and the lineup is a bit smaller on the back end. I don’t think that’s the preferred lineup for Bones.

So I would be in favour of a Chychrun deal with Heinola and Pionk as featured players in the deal. Pionk is having a dreadful season.

 

[DRW204]

I just don’t know what Heinola’s role is in Bones’ eyes. He doesn’t pk, didn’t really see any pp time last night. And played sparingly on 3rd pair. Samberg and Stanley are used extensively on pk.

Having Heinola in the lineup means Schmidt pks a bit more and the lineup is a bit smaller on the back end. I don’t think that’s the preferred lineup for Bones.

So I would be in favour of a Chychrun deal with Heinola and Pionk as featured players in the deal. Pionk is having a dreadful season.

so 1 player that has been dreadful on a ~6m contract. Then, another who is basically an unknown and thrown is thrown into trade-proposals after every bad showing.

yea where does Arizona sign up?

 

[KingBogo]

I just don’t know what Heinola’s role is in Bones’ eyes. He doesn’t pk, didn’t really see any pp time last night. And played sparingly on 3rd pair. Samberg and Stanley are used extensively on pk.

Having Heinola in the lineup means Schmidt pks a bit more and the lineup is a bit smaller on the back end. I don’t think that’s the preferred lineup for Bones.

So I would be in favour of a Chychrun deal with Heinola and Pionk as featured players in the deal. Pionk is having a dreadful season.

I don't think that is what Arizona is looking for. Everything I've seen is they want multiple 1st round picks. Maybe Heinola is seen by them as fitting this as he is still a relatively young prospect, but Pionk certainly wouldn't fit what they are looking for.

 

[Bob E]

I don't think that is what Arizona is looking for. Everything I've seen is they want multiple 1st round picks. Maybe Heinola is seen by them as fitting this as he is still a relatively young prospect, but Pionk certainly wouldn't fit what they are looking for.

Very true. Wasn’t thinking about what Arizona would be looking for. Gave it zero thought. My bad.

 

[Jet]

Was Heinola public or did someone ask his agent a question and the agent replied that Ville was dissapointed he didn't make the NHL? I ask because I haven't seen a quote from Heinola, and he never pouted to my knowledge and has played well when sent to the Moose. I don't see any public frustration or calling out the team from him.

I agree that when you're on the bubble that you have less leeway than others to have a poor game. What I am saying though is that he gets yanked back and forth, sat in the pressbox, etc. He's played 34 NHL games and some are talking like he's a finished product. He may not turn into what we would like for sure, but casting definitive judgement at this point on his entire NHL future is unwarranted IMO.

Yeah i guess that's unfair to Ville. I didn't see a direct quote from him. Kind of like the pld shit so I have to practice what I preach.

 

[Bob E]

so 1 player that has been dreadful on a ~6m contract. Then, another who is basically an unknown and thrown is thrown into trade-proposals after every bad showing.

yea where does Arizona sign up?

Good points. Gave it zero thought from Arizona’s perspective.

The offer likely needs to include 2023 1st, Heinola and Lucius. That might not get it done either.

 

[Jet]

I just don’t know what Heinola’s role is in Bones’ eyes. He doesn’t pk, didn’t really see any pp time last night. And played sparingly on 3rd pair. Samberg and Stanley are used extensively on pk.

Having Heinola in the lineup means Schmidt pks a bit more and the lineup is a bit smaller on the back end. I don’t think that’s the preferred lineup for Bones.

So I would be in favour of a Chychrun deal with Heinola and Pionk as featured players in the deal. Pionk is having a dreadful season.

Dreadful? He's already scored one more goal than his best season and is tracking for 35 points. He has struggled at times defensively and he needs to be better but dreadful is a little bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Bob E]

Dreadful? He's already scored one more goal than his best season and is tracking for 35 points. He has struggled at times defensively and he needs to be better but dreadful is a little bit of an exaggeration.

Less than optimal? How would you like me to describe my view of his season?

 

[DRW204]

Good points. Gave it zero thought from Arizona’s perspective.

The offer likely needs to include 2023 1st, Heinola and Lucius. That might not get it done either.

yea i think that's the style of deal they'd want. pionk they're adding salary with arguably a worse player

 

[Jet]

Less than optimal? How would you like me to describe my view of his season?

Idk, accurate? Dreadful is pretty severe.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Was Heinola public or did someone ask his agent a question and the agent replied that Ville was dissapointed he didn't make the NHL? I ask because I haven't seen a quote from Heinola, and he never pouted to my knowledge and has played well when sent to the Moose. I don't see any public frustration or calling out the team from him.

I agree that when you're on the bubble that you have less leeway than others to have a poor game. What I am saying though is that he gets yanked back and forth, sat in the pressbox, etc. He's played 34 NHL games and some are talking like he's a finished product. He may not turn into what we would like for sure, but casting definitive judgement at this point on his entire NHL future is unwarranted IMO.

I remember an article at beginning of season where he said yeah it might be mutually beneficial if I move on because I don’t see where I fit with team.
You talk about number of games but he is 22 he isn’t a fresh-face 18-19 year old. Is that on the team? Is that on him? Who knows. I imagine it’s few that have had his start that become the top 4 player that we need. Ppl will put to where was Pionk and Schmidt at that age? Pionk has already shown he is probably not good enough outside that one season for being a building block for being a contender top 4.

 

[KingBogo]

Good points. Gave it zero thought from Arizona’s perspective.

The offer likely needs to include 2023 1st, Heinola and Lucius. That might not get it done either.

That's actually the combination of pick and prospects that I was thinking about.

 

[scelaton]

I remember an article at beginning of season where he said yeah it might be mutually beneficial if I move on because I don’t see where I fit with team.
You talk about number of games but he is 22 he isn’t a fresh-face 18-19 year old. Is that on the team? Is that on him? Who knows. I imagine it’s few that have had his start that become the top 4 player that we need. Ppl will put to where was Pionk and Schmidt at that age? Pionk has already shown he is probably not good enough outside that one season for being a building block for being a contender top 4.

Did you look for the article before posting that? I highly doubt you would have found anything other than third-person speculation.

Successful 18-19 year old defensemen in the NHL are as rare as hens' teeth. If you don't like Pionk, try Morrissey as a comparator. Josh played a total of 1 NHL game before he turned 21. His 21-22 year old season was his first full season; Heinola was actually ahead of Norrissey's trajectory till this season.

 

[Huffer]

I remember an article at beginning of season where he said yeah it might be mutually beneficial if I move on because I don’t see where I fit with team.
You talk about number of games but he is 22 he isn’t a fresh-face 18-19 year old. Is that on the team? Is that on him? Who knows. I imagine it’s few that have had his start that become the top 4 player that we need. Ppl will put to where was Pionk and Schmidt at that age? Pionk has already shown he is probably not good enough outside that one season for being a building block for being a contender top 4.

It's possible he is used in a trade for sure. I could see scenarios where it makes sense to move 4 or 5 different D men.
For his usage, it's likely a little of everything. The team started the season with really 1 open spot as a 3LHD. Between Samberg, Stanley, and Heinola, Heinola and Samberg were always going to be looking at an uphill battle as they both could be assigned to the Moose without waivers.

 

[voyageur]

Idk, accurate? Dreadful is pretty severe.

Dreadful is plain wrong. Pionk is trending in the right direction, as the Jets 2nd best defenseman. Another game like last night and he actually passes Norrissey in the Corsi... Ideally he should probably be #3 or #4.

Heinola is getting his development ruined. I would have given him a full year to play defense with Simon Lundmark as his partner, a good full season of AHL hockey, to work on things, and chemistry with a future d-partner...The yo-yoing back in forth between leagues sitting for stretches isn't a good way to develop a prospect.

 

[gojetsgo]

well heinola might get his chance to redeem himself with samberg missing practice today from being sick

 

[sipowicz]

Looks like Tiny Heiny’s self evaluation claiming that he’s NHL ready was a little premature!

Self evaluation in athletics never works unless you’re Tiger, Wayne or MJ!

Dreadful is plain wrong. Pionk is trending in the right direction, as the Jets 2nd best defenseman. Another game like last night and he actually passes Norrissey in the Corsi... Ideally he should probably be #3 or #4.

Heinola is getting his development ruined. I would have given him a full year to play defense with Simon Lundmark as his partner, a good full season of AHL hockey, to work on things, and chemistry with a future d-partner...The yo-yoing back in forth between leagues sitting for stretches isn't a good way to develop a prospect.

I’m sure Tiny Heiny and his agent where whining for NHL playing time despite the fact that he’s clearly NOT MHL ready!

the NHL isn’t for development unless your team is in the draft lottery!

 

[ecolad]

Heinola had some pretty bad mistakes last night to be sure, but the whole team played like garbage as well.

Personally I think Heinola gets some unfair criticism at times. He wasn't good last night and the pitchforks will be out, but he was solid in a stretch before that and it was mainly crickets. The guy has played 34 NHL games. 34. (Samberg is also only at 50). What's the old saying, a defenseman needs to play 200 to 300 games before they solidify themselves? Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I sometimes wonder if there isn`t a greater correlation here than most think ? Ville has been given only sporadic game to game opportunities to play so it`s hard to draw any conclusions, but I have yet to see him play really poorly in a game where the team has played well within their new found structured approach to 5 man units. Could it be that Ville is the type of player that really sags when that structure has been abandoned, many are missing assignments, and chaos abounds?

 

[Adam da bomb]

I sometimes wonder if there isn`t a greater correlation here than most think ? Ville has been given only sporadic game to game opportunities to play so it`s hard to draw any conclusions, but I have yet to see him play really poorly in a game where the team has played well within their new found structured approach to 5 man units. Could it be that Ville is the type of player that really sags when that structure has been abandoned, many are missing assignments, and chaos abounds?

That said, we have Samberg playing well so it will only make it harder for Heinola to get regular games.

 

[ecolad]

That said, we have Samberg playing well so it will only make it harder for Heinola to get regular games.

Can`t deny that. But I believe that the org would be wise to invest the time and effort to further develop a young D that at least shows promise to become almost exactly what it most needs - another D, other than Morrissey, that can quickly and efficiently retreive pucks dumped in our end and smartly transition the play out before a sustained forecheck can get started.

 

[Jet]

Can`t deny that. But I believe that the org would be wise to invest the time and effort to further develop a young D that at least shows promise to become almost exactly what it most needs - another D, other than Morrissey, that can quickly and efficiently retreive pucks dumped in our end and smartly transition the play out before a sustained forecheck can get started.

The problem is Heinolas resume has shown practically nothing of that. I understand the problem of him getting not enough run of games to really establish that, but with what the Jets have on D currently and the position we are in (having a real shot of doing some damage in the playoffs) it's just not realistic to believe he is going to get what he needs in this org in the near future.

It might end up being a moment we look back on with regret, but at this time I truly believe it's best for both Ville and the team to look at moving him.

 

[surixon]

The problem is Heinolas resume has shown practically nothing of that. I understand the problem of him getting not enough run of games to really establish that, but with what the Jets have on D currently and the position we are in (having a real shot of doing some damage in the playoffs) it's just not realistic to believe he is going to get what he needs in this org in the near future.

It might end up being a moment we look back on with regret, but at this time I truly believe it's best for both Ville and the team to look at moving him.

According to Garrett's microstats on transition he's actually been pretty good. Perhaps we let many if his highly visible defensive miscues overshadow the other things in his game.

But I agree that he seems to be a player that needs to be comfortable to play well. He tends to do poorly when he's in and out of the lineup. But I agree that we don't really have the leeway to give him the strong of games he needs.

I'm on the fence on this. I think he likely is needed next year and will get his games next year as we are likely going to have to move a dmen out to make cap room. But I might also be fine trading him and going with Chisholm over him as Declan has more size and is a better skater.

 

[Adam da bomb]

According to Garrett's microstats on transition he's actually been pretty good. Perhaps we let many if his highly visible defensive miscues overshadow the other things in his game.

But I agree that he seems to be a player that needs to be comfortable to play well. He tends to do poorly when he's in and out of the lineup. But I agree that we don't really have the leeway to give him the strong of games he needs.

I'm on the fence on this. I think he likely is needed next year and will get his games next year as we are likely going to have to move a dmen out to make cap room. But I might also be fine trading him and going with Chisholm over him as Declan has more size and is a better skater.

Garrett’s stats say lots of things like Perfetti is a 3rd liner so we got to talk what he says with a grain of salt.