Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[nobody imp0rtant]

Agreed. It's shitty, but the nature of a fracture means it can heal properly. You don't have to deal with extenuating circumstances like you do with strains and sprains. This is probably the best deal for the Jets, because now they don't have to worry about losing a player to waivers.

Yeah, seems like a pretty simple, straight forward recovery. Nothing to worry about here.

Fracture Healing Overview - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Nonunions - OrthoInfo - American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons

Some broken bones do not heal even when they get the best surgical or nonsurgical treatment. In some cases, certain risk factors make it more likely that a bone will fail to heal. When a broken bone fails to heal it is called a "nonunion." A "delayed union" is when a fracture takes longer than...

orthoinfo.aaos.org

Fracture Complications

Original Editor - lucinda hampton

www.physio-pedia.com

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

 

[None]

Probably a better fit in the around the league thread then the Henola thread.

Yeah, I deleted it before you quoted me.

 

[KingBogo]

Fractured ankle. Probably the best outcome.

8-12 weeks.

I'm not a doctor, but I think this depends on how clean the break is. If there are multiple breaks held together with pins/plates the timeline can get more complicated.

 

[Flair Hay]

Man that's so brutal for him. With Schmidt hurt and Ville playing awesome they were full on giving him a chance to steal Schmidt's job for good.

I was really down on him last year and it was really cool to watch him this pre season outplay... well everybody on our
defense. Definitely going to be eating crow from those who believed in him soon. Just not quite as soon as it looked.

 

[FonRiesen]

Agreed. It's shitty, but the nature of a fracture means it can heal properly. You don't have to deal with extenuating circumstances like you do with strains and sprains. This is probably the best deal for the Jets, because now they don't have to worry about losing a player to waivers.

We still have to worry about making the playoffs... Heinola gives a better chance than whomever he'd replace...

 

[BoneDocUK]

Yeah, seems like a pretty simple, straight forward recovery. Nothing to worry about here.

Fracture Healing Overview - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Nonunions - OrthoInfo - American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons

Some broken bones do not heal even when they get the best surgical or nonsurgical treatment. In some cases, certain risk factors make it more likely that a bone will fail to heal. When a broken bone fails to heal it is called a "nonunion." A "delayed union" is when a fracture takes longer than...

orthoinfo.aaos.org

Fracture Complications

Original Editor - lucinda hampton

www.physio-pedia.com

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

^^^

Wouldn't necessarily expect the (relatively uncommon) complications listed above in this case and with the quality of treatment he's likely to receive but rehabbing can take time and ankles can be heavily stressed, especially for a D who's pivoting, changing stride, decelerating quickly etc.

** Disclaimer: I'm not an ortho, although I've done enough ankles in my day through various rotations. **

I'm a bit bemused by comments above the possible involvement of rink doors or panels in this though. That's pretty damn shoddy, and IIRC wasn't their a Jet fairly recently who caught a skate in such a gap?

Tough news, esp given the timing and the stakes, but I'll be pulling for him.

 

[Buffdog]

Hopefully it's just his fibula. I'd imagine a longer timeline if his tibia was involved

 

[Boonk]

It sucks that we can’t have nice things for this team sometimes :,(

Brutal, shit luck.

 

[KingBogo]

Hopefully it's just his fibula. I'd imagine a longer timeline if his tibia was involved

Yeah, not everyone appreciates that the ankle isn't a single bone but 3 bones. The Tibia, Fibula and Talus, and an ankle fracture could be 1, 2 or all 3 of them. If there is more than one bone it is usually a displaced fracture where the ankle basically separates and is then surgically repaired with plates and screws to hold it together while it heals. If this happens then there is often also ligament damage as well, not much different then having a high ankle sprain on top of the fracture. I just know this as I fractured my ankle when I was younger where all 3 bones were broken as well as the ligament torn. Had surgery and plates and screws inserted. Took me 3 months before I could even start any type of real rehab.

 

[jetsforever]

Sucks that he got injured but the silver lining is our roster decisions are easier now and when he's recovered there might be another injury or some reason to get him into the lineup

 

[Larabee]

Heinola’s injury should give some bigger body defence men like Capo and Chis a chance to play. I think they are the future. Nothing against Heinola, but we already have Pionk. Heinola and Pionk bring the same game to the table. We only need one of them.

 

[Crocket]

Ville was playing exceptionally well in camp. Easily the best defender in the games. A terrible setback for him and the team. Hopefully he has a complete and expedient recovery. And that he fares well mentally.

 

[ps241]

Heinola’s injury should give some bigger body defence men like Capo and Chis a chance to play. I think they are the future. Nothing against Heinola, but we already have Pionk. Heinola and Pionk bring the same game to the table. We only need one of them.

Who’s the future?

 

[mouser]

Can they keep him on the NHL roster and IR him so that he can at least get paid in NHL dollars?

Assuming Winnipeg places Heinola on IR before opening day he will have both a reduced cap hit and receive a reduce salary. This is know as SOIR (season opening IR). Players on two-way contracts with less than 50 games on the NHL roster the previous season are eligible for SOIR if injured in training camp, or reporting to training camp injured.

Heinola spent 48 of 185 days on the NHL last season and the other 137 days in the AHL. Using those numbers the SOIR formulas are:

SOIR Cap Hit: $863,333 cap hit * 48 / 185 = $224,778

SOIR Salary: $832,500 NHL salary * 48 / 185 + $70,000 AHL salary * 137 / 185 = $267,838 salary while on SOIR.

 

[KingBogo]

Assuming Winnipeg places Heinola on IR before opening day he will have both a reduced cap hit and receive a reduce salary. This is know as SOIR (season opening IR). Players on two-way contracts with less than 50 games on the NHL roster the previous season are eligible for SOIR if injured in training camp, or reporting to training camp injured.

Heinola spent 48 of 185 days on the NHL last season and the other 137 days in the AHL. Using those numbers the SOIR formulas are:

SOIR Cap Hit: $863,333 cap hit * 48 / 185 = $224,778

SOIR Salary: $832,500 NHL salary * 48 / 185 + $70,000 AHL salary * 137 / 185 = $267,838 salary while on SOIR.

Thanks. It is always great to get the little known details of these types of things.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Thanks. It is always great to get the little known details of these types of things.

Unless facts get in the way of a good narrative. Then... yeah, no.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Who’s the future?

Certainly not Capo lol

 

[robertocarlos]

That broken ankle could cost him $250k. Ouch.

 

[abax44]

That broken ankle could cost him $250k. Ouch.

IR'd in the NHL pays a lot more than playing in the AHL, though. Silver linings.

 

[Larabee]

Who’s the future?

Can’t read ?

 

[ps241]

Can’t read ?

When you use Capo and Chis as references for the future your point is murky at best because I know you can’t mean that since they are at best 7-8 types right now. That’s not the future. Size (I am guessing that is your point) without enough NHL talent is filler that doesn’t move the needle. Also I assume you mean Chisholm and he is in the same zip code size wise as Morrissey, Pionk, Heinola (all four are listed between 6’ and 6’2 and between 185-195 pounds on the Jets website)? Even Capo is listed as 6’2‘and 200 and that is not much different?

Moving past splitting hairs on the size of Capo and Chis what about TNSE leads you to believe our future is different than our present? Our roster as constructed took 13 years in the making. In 13 years we have drafted 1.5 defensmen that are/were big and good enough to play in the top 4 in the NHL (Trouba and maybe….maybe Samberg). If Samberg doesn’t stick in the top 4 we have zero big D men drafted that still play in our top 4. Their drafting track record based on your priority would tell me it’s never going to come together. When we draft for size we are just as likely to end up with the Cederholm or Stanley types which are not the future. As recently as 2020 the team still drafted Kuzmin so they didn’t get the memo about avoiding smallish D men.

Our trading track record for skilled enough D men with size is very sketchy. Dillon checks the box but for every Dillon we are just as likely to end up with a Schmidt, or a Pionk.

Our future under a Chipman Chevy tandem is crystal clear to me. Love it or hate it they are going to keep drafting BPA, trade for BPA, and they will dress the best six D men and if that means they have two or three players that are 6’ 185 they won’t compromise to play lesser talent with more size.

 

[Flair Hay]

Heinola’s injury should give some bigger body defence men like Capo and Chis a chance to play. I think they are the future. Nothing against Heinola, but we already have Pionk. Heinola and Pionk bring the same game to the table. We only need one of them.

The way Heinola was playing, it looked like he was well on his way to surpassing Schmidt and Pionk by the end of the year.

It's only one camp, but he is just such a better skater than both. Now that his body and his confidence are starting to catch up, those flashes started to become almost every shift for him

There is only room for 2 of Pionk Schmidt Ville and I think it's becoming clear Schmidt better be on his toes or he won't be one of the two.

 

[BoneDocUK]

When you use Capo and Chis as references for the future your point is murky at best because I know you can’t mean that since they are at best 7-8 types right now. That’s not the future. Size (I am guessing that is your point) without enough NHL talent is filler that doesn’t move the needle. Also I assume you mean Chisholm and he is not big and is in the same zip code size wise as Morrissey, Pionk, Heinola (all four are listed between 6’ and 6’2 and between 185-195 pounds on the Jets website)? Even Capo is listed as 6’2‘and 200 and that is not much different?

Moving past splitting hairs on the size of Capo and Chis what about TNSE leads you to believe our future is different than our present? Our roster as constructed took 13 years in the making. In 13 years we have drafted 1.5 defensmen that are/were big and good enough to play in the top 4 in the NHL (Trouba and maybe….maybe Samberg). If Samberg doesn’t stick in the top 4 we have zero big D men drafted that still play in our top 4. Their drafting track record based on your priority would tell me it’s never going to come together. When we draft for size we are just as likely to end up with the Cederholm or Stanley types which are not the future. As recently as 2020 the team still drafted Kuzmin so they didn’t get the memo about avoiding smallish D men.

Our trading track record for skilled enough D men with size is very sketchy. Dillon checks the box but for every Dillon we are just as likely to end up with a Schmidt, or a Pionk.

Our future under a Chipman Chevy tandem is crystal clear to me. Love it or hate it they are going to keep drafting BPA, trade for BPA, and they will dress the best six D men and if that means they have two or three players that are 6’ 185 they won’t compromise to play lesser talent with more size.

Agree on all points.

Would just add that according to various pundits around camp, Heinola is now 6.1 and at least 185 -- and was nicknamed "The Finnish Tank" by at least one local journo, so he ain't a wee kid anymore.

Like Peak Pionk, who has arguably been our nastiest and pestiest D when on form since Trouba left, it's maybe more about the size of the fight in the dog than we realize.

A Heinola / Samberg combo should be plenty big and skilled enough to do well on a second / third pairing intially, as they get bedded in, and if a solid second pairing is their ceiling, that's still rare enough in the Jets' recent drafting to be a significant draft success and value asset.

Anyway, looking forward to this thread reopening with some real fanfare in a few months' time when Ville is back on his feet and hopefully challenging again for a spot. At least they now have a better read on his growth as a player and where he might fit into a revamped lineup in the future.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Heinola’s injury should give some bigger body defence men like Capo and Chis a chance to play. I think they are the future. Nothing against Heinola, but we already have Pionk. Heinola and Pionk bring the same game to the table. We only need one of them.

Pionk is probably gone after next year, unless he gets traded before his contract is up. Maybe if he takes a discount he gets brought back but we'll see. Also I think Pionk is a lot more physical, but Heinola could be a better puck mover and higher IQ player. But they are roughly the same size, so there's that. But Morrissey, Schmidt and Demelo are that size too (tho slightly more weight).

 

[GNP]

Pionk is probably gone after next year, unless he gets traded before his contract is up. Maybe if he takes a discount he gets brought back but we'll see. Also I think Pionk is a lot more physical, but Heinola could be a better puck mover and higher IQ player. But they are roughly the same size, so there's that. But Morrissey, Schmidt and Demelo are that size too (tho slightly more weight).

I'd like to see the Jets get rid of their undersized defenseman, that are highly paid, and go with bigger more physical Dmen, unless they're very talented like Morrissey, then you keep those types of smaller type defenseman. Pionk and Schmidt are the next likely to go. I'd like to see Capo in the lineup. He has a great shot.