lomiller1
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Player Discussion: Heinola Thread
- Thread starter Hunter368
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lomiller1
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What's your basis for this claim? I don't see how you can even make an apples to apples comparison other than by looking at the 2 NHL games Heinola has had this year and he had a better xGF% than Samberg in both of them.
It seems to me like you are saying Samberg is "better" because he's been playing in the NHL but he's only playing in the NHL because he's a more suitable style for the open spot the Jets have available. If that spot were given simply on who played the best Samberg (or Stanly) would be in the AHL and Heinola would be the one with NHL min.
Yeah I think Ville has been fine but he has yet to get what guys like Samberg and Stanley have gotten and that is a big string of games to get comfortable.
I like Dylan and he fills a role but he's got limited upside as does Stanley. Sometimes you need to find a way to get the higher ceiling guy in of the current level of play is similar.
Again, did you watch these games? Comparing their xGF% doesn't mean much considering they were D partners.
I thought Heinola looked really tentative and was beat easily along the boards a number of times. He also didn't even step up with any offense.
I do hope to see Heinola get more NHL games and a chance to relax and show what he can do for sure, but to my eyes Samberg has been playing pretty well and getting more and more comfortable.
Instead we’ll be lucky if we get a 2nd from Heinola. It also doesn’t matter who is ultimately the better player Samberg fills the role better. You can’t have twenty finesse players you need guys who compliment everything else you have going on better and that’s a big D first defenceman.
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I really don't know what you have seen to give you that impression - unless it's based on preseason or the A - If so, I understand where you are coming from because he's a much more competent player (especially defensively) when playing in the A or when it doesn't count.
lomiller1
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I don't agree. In fact in their careers to this point Heinola has been the better defensive player at every stage. He was effective defensively in Liiga before he ever came to North America and he was a more effective defender than Samberg in their time together in the AHL. Samberg is bigger and so has less of an adjustment period, but that still hasn't made him significantly better defensively in their NHL games played. (Lets face it both still need to be sheltered defensively and will continue to need sheltering until they have a couple years NHL experience under their belt. )
Probably by now Samberg has put a fair distance between himself and Ville. Samberg is pretty much now #6, and looking better by the game. Stanley #7 and Capo #8. Heinola is now going back down again and will need to keep plugging away.
I think you are going a bit far out on this limb. Heinola really has looked quite tentative in his own zone and hasn't done enough offensively to move the needle. I'm still high on him as a prospect, but he will most likely be deep depth for the rest of this season.
Gabe Kupari
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voyageur
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- Jul 10, 2011
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Or realistically he was showcasing himself period. Samberg distinguished himself in TC on the PK, and has continued to do so all season long. That battle was between Samberg and Stanley, to see who was more effective 5 on 5, with the PK responsibility. Because the Jets don't use Morrissey on the PK much at all anymore, which has given him some fresher legs 5 on 5. Heinola wasn't competing for that spot. He was getting reps with some of the guys expected to be the PP2, and if any of the top 3 d-men go down, he's got a chance for that role, competing with Capobianco. For Heinola to be a legitimate consideration for a starting spot he would have had to show exceptional 5 on 5 numbers, coupled with PP prowess, to consider putting Morrissey back into a PK role, where he is going to get a lot more wear and tear. Bones coaching style gives everyone a role. Ville's role was not to replace De Melo, and when he came into that opportunity, the Jets PK took a hit. If Kovacevic were still in the organization he would have probably got the callup. Ville got a chance nonetheless, as did the guys who had to replace De Melo on the PK, and it didn't go very well in Minnesota. I'd be astonished if Morrissey, Pionk, Schmidt all play 82 games this year, so Ville just has to be ready for his next opportunity.
That’s a nice way to say the PP role is the only developed part of his game and it’s not good enough to play. Samberg is significantly better 5 on 5 and can contribute to killing penalties. He’s just better.
I disagree. Samberg has had his warts but he's stronger on the puck and overall makes the more appropriate play in our zone.
I still think Heinola is going to be moved. He's a B prospect, I think his ceiling is probably Pionk minus physicality.
Overall still a good pick at 20 but not anything to get too bent out of shape about losing.
sipowicz
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So you want to get rid of a top 4 NHL D man for a guy not quite good enough for the NHL period!?
There’s a reason I’ve called him tiny Heiny, he’s not physically mature for the NHL yet!
People lose their damn minds over prospects.
Considering it is extremely unlikely Heinola will ever even become Pionk. I think it's most likely he becomes a sheltered 5/6 pp guy - which is fine.
Huffer
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I think it's a huge positive that the whole Heinola "issue" (if there really is one, and personally I don't think the Jets see it as an issue), is that we have a good young player that at age 21 has already played multiple seasons in mens leagues with good results and is ready for the next step. We also have another young player in Samberg who is older than Heinola (and with less flexibility with the minors), that has shown he can play in the NHL. And Stanley, who has been up and down, but is also young and shown promise.
While maybe our current NHL roster of defenseman is not a collection of all-stars, they are all well established NHL players. This is not the team that had Beulieu, Sbisa, and other lower quality starters. Not outright beating one of Dillon, or Pionk, or Schmidt at age 20 and 21 is not an indictment on this young players ability or future.
Personally I think the Jets are more than fine with using the fact that Heinola does not need waivers to their advantage. It is not what Heinola would want, and I get it because he'll make 10 times more in the NHL, but it's the reality of the business. Interestingly, the Jets will still need to either trade an established D making more money next offseason, or possibly trade a young D, because we'll still be in this (not terrible) situation.
While maybe our current NHL roster of defenseman is not a collection of all-stars, they are all well established NHL players. This is not the team that had Beulieu, Sbisa, and other lower quality starters. Not outright beating one of Dillon, or Pionk, or Schmidt at age 20 and 21 is not an indictment on this young players ability or future.
Personally I think the Jets are more than fine with using the fact that Heinola does not need waivers to their advantage. It is not what Heinola would want, and I get it because he'll make 10 times more in the NHL, but it's the reality of the business. Interestingly, the Jets will still need to either trade an established D making more money next offseason, or possibly trade a young D, because we'll still be in this (not terrible) situation.
This is a great way of looking at it.
I feel the same way about our forwards. Maybe (by maybe I mean surely) our top end talent isn't as good as 17-18, but the talent has been spread out more evenly from top to bottom.
In the end that helps you mitigate injury, and the eventuality your top players go through cold spells (things we've seen already this year, and have perservered through much better than in the past).
I'd put Heinola's ceiling a bit higher than that. Pionk is a good comparison. Maybe similar offense, but a little less physicality. I can see Heinola being an offensive #4, with a solid D partner, and a guy who can QB your #2 PP. That's still nice value with a 20 OA pick.
Over hyping prospects is the HFBoards calling card. The shinny unknown is a powerful draw. I try not to get as caught up in it as I once did, and now just let things play out. Some prospects will make it, some won't, but following the journey is a nice side addition to what happens with the big club.
CorgisPer60
Barking at the net
I don't know what else Heinola can do. He's not obviously better than anyone else currently with the Jets, and he doesn't get enough reps in the NHL to prove that he belongs there. So now it's back to waiting for either an injury or a trade. Meanwhile, Bowness continues to pump his tires while also telling him to wait. It has to be frustrating.
Buffdog
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It's like he's been "friend zoned" lol
They're stringing him along but he ain't getting no action
