Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[KingBogo]

Lots of Heinola talk in this article:

Heinola's Jets future? Time to trade a defenceman? Mailbag

Jets fans seem to be taking Winnipeg's 7-3-1 start with an air of cautiousness and have many questions about the defence.

theathletic.com

From his agent:

Roy says Heinola is in a situation that many young players have been in before him — he’s on an entry-level contract, good enough to play in the NHL, but facing a roadblock in the form of several quality players ahead of him on a team that’s performing well. Roy recognizes that Cheveldayoff has five healthy veterans and that Heinola’s entry-level contract makes him easy to keep in the AHL, but believes Heinola is ready for a lengthy NHL look.

“That’s their decision but it’s true: He hasn’t gotten that run of games to show that he could or couldn’t do it.”

I asked Roy if Heinola has asked for a trade. He says no but acknowledges that a trade is one of the possible outcomes.

“We’re trying to work together to find the solution,” Roy said. “A trade is always a possibility but that’s really in Chevy’s court. Whether he wants to keep the asset or move the asset is up to him. It’s probably more about figuring out what the best fit is with that group. The question is: when does that asset start going backward?”

Hearing that question makes me think of Winnipeg’s recent history. Jack Roslovic was thought of as a top prospect bordering on untouchable when he first made the Jets in 2017-18 and again at the 2018-19 trade deadline. Winnipeg was a deep team up front at the time, Roslovic didn’t play big minutes, and by the time Winnipeg traded him to Columbus in 2021, Roslovic was a supplementary piece as opposed to the “A” prospect he would have been just two seasons prior to that. I’ve often wondered what the Jets cost themselves, asset-wise, by picking the lane between playing him and trading him while his stock was presumably much higher.

Seems like a strategy to trade away a lot of good young players before you know what you have in them. Especially at forward there is not much room in our top 6, other than maybe Wheelers spot. Most of our highly regarded forward prospects are likely to get their start lower down the lineup. How many should we trade away because we can't immediately get them into the top 6?

 

[Howard Chuck]

But how do we even know that his agent was the one to pick up the phone and call The Hockey News? Is it possible that the Hockey News is the one to initiate the conversation? Possible that the agent was asked about all of his clients and said, "yeah, Ville was disappointed he didn't stick with the big club and is really looking for a longer look, and I think he's earned it." And then they decided to write an article? (Personally I would think it's "likley" the agent initiated it, but we don't know that is all).

My point is that people have started to put all kinds of negative spin on it based on basically nothing. Using terms like "pouting", etc. It's common around here, that people put their own emotion and assumptions on things where there is no information that is currently shared to assume anything at this point.

Maybe it does get to a point where Ville and his agent ask for a trade (the article says he doesn't want one currently), but until I know that, I'm not going to assume that Ville is an immature, pouting, malcontent.

Thank you! So far read some of the comments here. He’s entitled, spoiled, doesn’t want to be here, looking for a trade, indicative of Finnish culture…….

All because of something that we know nothing about. Now there is a whole contingent of HFJets that don’t like the kid.

This is why I don’t trust anything (news, online, etc) unless I verify the facts myself.

 

[surixon]

Seems like a strategy to trade away a lot of good young players before you know what you have in them. Especially at forward there is not much room in our top 6, other than maybe Wheelers spot. Most of our highly regarded forward prospects are likely to get their start lower down the lineup. How many should we trade away because we can't immediately get them into the top 6?

There is a happy medium between trading too soon and holding them too long.

I think the team needs to be a bit quicker ar times in making a call on some of these players and where they fit long term.

With Roslovic after 18-19 we probably should have had some indication if he was going to be an everyday top 6 guy or not. That gave us 4 years of his development and a couple on the big team, certainly more then enough to know what the player wanted and if he would fit that here.

In the end he was an add in on a piece that got a 1C so did we really lose out that badly, likely not. Bit we may have gotten a couple of mid round picks for Niku and Petan had we made a quicker call on them and moved them.

 

[KingBogo]

There is a happy medium between trading too soon and holding them too long.

I think the team needs to be a bit quicker ar times in making a call on some of these players and where they fit long term.

With Roslovic after 18-19 we probably should have had some indication if he was going to be an everyday top 6 guy or not. That gave us 4 years of his development and a couple on the big team, certainly more then enough to know what the player wanted and if he would fit that here.

In the end he was an add in on a piece that got a 1C so did we really lose out that badly, likely not. Bit we may have gotten a couple of mid round picks for Niku and Petan had we made a quicker call on them and moved them.

Its a tricky balancing act, as you sure in the hell don't want to make a Sergachev for Drouin blunder. Pulling the trigger too early on a prospect like that can set a franchise back for years.

 

[surixon]

Its a tricky balancing act, as you sure in the hell don't want to make a Sergachev for Drouin blunder. Pulling the trigger too early on a prospect like that can set a franchise back for years.

Very true.

 

[DRW204]

 

[ps241]

View attachment 609074

I am one of the guys that would like to see Ville get a really good look at some point. That being said, I like the way Bowness seems to communicate. I know I am not privy to the full conversation but it feels like he is letting Ville know where he stands. I don't think that can be a bad thing. Rick seems like a pretty strait forward guy.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I am one of the guys that would like to see Ville get a really good look at some point. That being said, I like the way Bowness seems to communicate. I know I am not privy to the full conversation but it feels like he is letting Ville know where he stands. I don't think that can be a bad thing. Rick seems like a pretty strait forward guy.

OK, lip readers... over to you.

 

[RabidOne]

What happens when you play Heinola and teams start targeting him on forecheck (you better believe that will happen) he's going to get punished both physically and mentally.

People say there's size discrimination, but that is a mischaracterization. It's strength. There a reason there's not a lot of 175 lb defensemen in the league and its not discrimination. If you can't handle the physical demands of wall work, battles, and forecheck pressure, you're going to get eaten up.

Stanley struggles with this too even at his size. Enstrom was a small defenseman, but he had good strength, a great stick, and an innate ability to use his opponents weight against them. He also had incredible escapability which protected himself most of his career.

These are Heinolas weaknesses in his own zone. He has incredible talent, and open ice with no pressure he is absolutely talented enough to excel in the league.

In the Central, and Western Conference overall, teams use size and speed to aggressively and physically forecheck, and our team has not been good at handling that the past few years. Adding heinola is not going to help with that. Sure, good passing and quick exit decisions will mitigate it somewhat, but Heinola will get overwhelmed in situations where there is a forecheck that involves multiple forwards supporting each other and cutting off lanes.

There are also situations where Heinola has made panicked passes in that situation or overhandled the puck leading to turnovers and that was in exhibition, against teams that weren't even full nhl lineups.

People like to think that a smaller defenseman just needs to be skilled to play in the nhl, but that's simply not the case. Just as only being big doesn't make you successful in the nhl.

Of course the old school management still defers to size over skill, but the old adage is still true, you can't teach size.

I'm not advocating for Stanley over Heinola, but Samberg is far better at handling forecheck pressure and making the right decision in our zone than Ville. That's what the team needs if we are to improve our play in our own zone which I think everyone will agree is our biggest weakness

I am just sitting on the fence here watching this debate, but from my viewings that is exactly Samberg's flaw. I have seen him several times give the puck away/pass it to the opposition because he is just trying to get it out of the D zone. So that might be a flaw in Heinola's game, but he sure isn't alone.

 

[KingBogo]

I for one would like to see Heinola play. I have maintained all along that he is best off developing on the Moose getting big all situation minutes and that he would get his opportunity as an injury replacement call up. Well he is an injury call up so let’s see what he can do.

 

[JetsFan815]

I for one would like to see Heinola play. I have maintained all along that he is best off developing on the Moose getting big all situation minutes and that he would get his opportunity as an injury replacement call up. Well he is an injury call up so let’s see what he can do.

My guess is that if one of Pionk/Morrissey is hurt, Heinola goes in, otherwise Capo. I agree. There is no logic in not giving him a game if a D is out. Capo played a game a couple of games ago so it's not like you can say that it's Capo's "turn".

 

[KingBogo]

My guess is that if one of Pionk/Morrissey is hurt, Heinola goes in, otherwise Capo. I agree. There is no logic in not giving him a game if a D is out. Capo played a game a couple of games ago so it's not like you can say that it's Capo's "turn".

My guess it is neither Morrissey or Pionk out. Pionk was one of the post optional skate interviews today and he was in pretty good spirits. Added to that his main topic of discussion was the chemistry with JoMo. Also JoMo set up the OT goal on Sunday and looked real good doing it.

 

[surixon]

My guess it is neither Morrissey or Pionk out. Pionk was one of the post optional skate interviews today and he was in pretty good spirits. Added to that his main topic of discussion was the chemistry with JoMo. Also JoMo set up the OT goal on Sunday and looked real good doing it.

JoMo was also out 2 hours after practice yesterday working on things.

 

[RabidOne]

Wondering if this is a 11/7 situation? Maybe someone in the top 6 doesn't mind being double shifted a bit so Heinola can run a power play and get eased into the lineup?

 

[KingBogo]

Wondering if this is a 11/7 situation? Maybe someone in the top 6 doesn't mind being double shifted a bit so Heinola can run a power play and get eased into the lineup?

It looks like the finally brought up an injury replacement for Stanley since they are starting to get pretty light at forward on the Moose.

 

[KingBogo]

And DeMelo is out.

 

[Jet]

I am just sitting on the fence here watching this debate, but from my viewings that is exactly Samberg's flaw. I have seen him several times give the puck away/pass it to the opposition because he is just trying to get it out of the D zone. So that might be a flaw in Heinola's game, but he sure isn't alone.

Yeah I think we're seeing some of Samberg's youthful warts, especially last night.

Of our d that's been auditioning, I think Capo has been the most defensively reliable so far, but that's of course a really small sample.

 

[drumzan]

 

[Hunter368]

Yeah I think we're seeing some of Samberg's youthful warts, especially last night.

Of our d that's been auditioning, I think Capo has been the most defensively reliable so far, but that's of course a really small sample.

Agreed, but I also think Capo has the lowest ceiling.

 

[JetsFan815]

Yeah I think we're seeing some of Samberg's youthful warts, especially last night.

Of our d that's been auditioning, I think Capo has been the most defensively reliable so far, but that's of course a really small sample.

Capo was far from defensively reliable last night,

 

[KingBogo]

Capo was far from defensively reliable last night,

Capo been fine. 3 years ago he’d be in our top 4. I like him as a 7/8. Low maintenance, apparently practices hard, sits in the PB without complaining and fits in well enough when asked to play. Turns out he was a pretty good pickup by Chevy.

 

[voyageur]

One of the reasons I think that Bowness gave for not dressing Heinola is the lack of PP time, and I wonder with all the injuries if the Jets would be willing to change their PP alignment to make it work for him.

I was thinking that with a bit of offensive struggles right now, the time to pick up the PP might be right now. Jets are sitting at 17th in the league in PP%.

What if the Jets used 2 d-men on each unit?

Say the first one, instead of playing a player like Scheifele or Ehlers on the half wall, maybe move Morrissey down there and put Schmidt up top for the one timers. If any player can break a seam with a pass onto Connor's stick, Morrissey would be high on my list. Have Scheifele in the middle of the ice, maybe tailing to the net for back door plays, but off the boards in a more dangerous shooting position. Dubois has been playing farther away from the net of late, and though it has worked at times probably want him in a little closer.

2nd PP I don't think we've seen a lot of chemistry from Schmidt and Pionk in creating chances. I know a lot of folks would like to see Cole get first unit PP looks, but I'm not rushing him there. I was thinking the Jets could build off some of the Moose success from last year, where Heinola and Perfetti were making high level plays. With Heinola controlling the puck, you could play Pionk on his shooting side off the wall or spacing out up top for one-timers, and if you filter pucks through Perfetti, off the wall, there's 3 RH options for him, with Gagner, Wheeler, and Pionk, who could cover a lot of ice, run down the wall, makes Perfetti more dangerous I think. Gagner in the slot has shown the ability to get some quality shots off, and you can rotate him and Wheeler in and out of the crease area.

I mean the big change would be dropping Lowry off the 2nd unit PP, but I think this could be a way to get some more goals.

I know the Dillon-Schmidt pairing has been very good, but if Heinola did draw in, I hope it's with Dillon who he got some reps with in preseason, and then move Schmidt onto Samberg's pairing, and put them out as the top unit on the PK, until De Melo is good to go.

And who knows if you start increasing the PP success, maybe there's a chance to go with 7 d-men for a stretch.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Capo been fine. 3 years ago he’d be in our top 4. I like him as a 7/8. Low maintenance, apparently practices hard, sits in the PB without complaining and fits in well enough when asked to play. Turns out he was a pretty good pickup by Chevy.

His name is Capo,
Capobianco
when the boy plays, he's surely not jank-o!

 

[SUX2BU]

His name is Capo,
Capobianco
when the boy plays, he's surely not jank-o!

Why are you singing in a Heinola thread?

 

[AlphaLackey]

Why are you singing in a Heinola thread?

I blame the person who brought up Copacabana in a Heinola thread. At that point, I couldn't stop myself.