Hearing for Torres on Stoll hit (Thurs 9am PT, NYC; w/DW); out for rest of WCSF

[Negatively Positive]

Well last game might be the last time we see Torres in a Shark jersey.

 

[Sleepy]

Collisions of somewhat elastic bodies is not the simplest of things to understand with newtonian physics. What I would question is, how can someone have principal contact with his nameplate and the back of his helmet. The principal contact is still with torsos, which are somewhat elastic while the back of a helmet is not. While the torsos absorb the impact, the upper body continues to move and Stoll's jaw absorbs some energy from the helmet/nameplate.

This is how I see it, and how I would argue the case.

I agree. Don't mind if he gets suspended because he's gotten away with more hits than he's been punished for, but this one doesn't deserve it.

 

[Hold the Pickles]

If you can't hit someone because their head is down, doesn't that create another problem? I think it's dangerous to create a false sense of security especially then temper it by rewarding players that skate with their heads down by making them off-limits. Wouldn't this promote this behavior? Hell, all you got to do to not get hit (most of the time and thats the problem) is skate with your head down.

Imagine if at the last second Torres pulls up and purposely misses stoll because he's in a vulnerable position, then Stoll contributes the Kings scoring. how is that fair?

If the league is serious about head shots, how about calling a penalty for skating with your head down?

Making people paranoid every time the go for the hit is not the way to go.

 

[Grave]

@helenenothelen 16 secs
Verdict on Torres hearing won't be announced til later today. Would guess before Sharks-Kings game.

If shes reporting it then we are ****ed, biggest LA troll there is.

 

[Eighth Fret]

Looking at the slower gif, Torres doesn't even propel himself into Stoll, if anything his shoulder pulls forward (away from Stoll). Torres could have easily gone straight into Stoll and delivered a much more devastating hit, but chose not to.

 

[Led Zappa]

@PollakOnSharks 1 min
Hearing that hearing has ended in NYC, but no announcement on verdict regarding #SJSharks Torres coming for at least a few hours.

 

[CrazedZooChimp]

Looking at the slower gif, Torres doesn't even propel himself into Stoll, if anything his shoulder pulls forward (away from Stoll). Torres could have easily gone straight into Stoll and delivered a much more devastating hit, but chose not to.

I also think it looks even more tame now seeing the slow gif. Torres kind of glides in front of Stoll and somehow manages to hit Stoll with his back. Which is confusing to me.

Also, wtf, a few hours? Just tell us if he's suspended or not!

 

[Hopper15]

suspension coming no doubt.

 

[SharksFan1]

Hit the shoulder. If he can't do that, then he shouldn't deliever the hit. Similar to a many other penalties.

You're allowed to check a guy in the shoulder. You are not allowed to cross-check a guy in the back. If you can hit a guy in the shoulder, hit him. If his back is turned and you can't hit anything but the numbers on his back, don't hit him. If you are unsure or incapable of controlling whether or not you'll be able to avoid hitting a guy in the back, then the onus is on the you the hitter not to deliver the hit (ease up on the contact, back off and play more positionally, etc.)....not to just throw the hit anyway and make the hittee pay the medical price for your wrong guess.

You're allowed to hit a guy in the torso. You are not allowed to hit a guy in his knee. If you can deliver a clean torso hit, hit him. If the only way you can make contact with the player is by sticking out your leg and making contact with his knee, you have to let him go. If the hitter is going to put his desire to hit a player over his responsibility to control whether or nor he hits him cleanly and legally, that's on the hitter.

You're allowed to skate in front of the crease. You are not allowed to skate into the goaltender. If you are incapable of or unsure of whether or not you will be able to skate to a point on the far side of the crease without running through the goaltender, then the onus is on the skater not to skate there or to take a different route that better avoids the goaltender. If you choose to skate there anyway and your lack of care/control/judgment causes you to make contact with the goaltender, you bear the responsibility for that.

But he did hit the shoulder... and head. IMO it seems almost impossible to prevent 100% head contact all the time when hitting given the speed the game is played, and often times the player getting hit makes a last second move usually to try and dodge the hit, like Stoll did here. Torres neither jumped into the hit or lifted his elbow. He glided into the hit and I don't think he was aiming for the head, but like I said the game is so fast and Stoll making a last second move it is practicably impossible for Torres to adjust his point of contact.

 

[Alwalys]

Play this nonstop until the decision is announced

 

[Led Zappa]

Play this nonstop until the decision is announced

Everybody gets convicted in that show, so no







Yes, I know they lost a couple times

 

[AnderFunk]

His back/back of his helmet. No, you cannot logically target a head with those parts of the body.

Torres hit Stoll in the head with his back? My brain is starting to hurt

 

[SJGoalie32]

Not to get into too much of a physics argument, but if Stoll is getting hit from the right and not head on doesn't it make sense that his head would snap to the left?

That's why I posted the link to the Desjardins hit on Mayers.

For as violent an impact as that was, and for as much as Mayers body turned on the collision, his face still stayed pretty much in line with his sternum.

If you were in a car crash where someone T-boned you from the side, there would undoubtedly be head movement, but your nose would still be pointed in pretty much the same direction as your torso.

Side collisions don't cause the face to rotate. Head motion side to side? Yes. But the nose and jaw would not rotate completely independently from the rest of the body.....unless the principal point for the force of the impact was the head.

I still see shoulder absorb hit first then head snap, although it all happens so fast it's hard to tell.

If Torres would hit Stoll's shoulder only, the rest of the body should move before the head. Stoll's body should have gone flying. The fact that Stoll's head moves before either of his skates even came off the ice is more evidence of a head shot to me. There may have also been minor shoulder impact. But to me, the majority of impact comes to the jaw/head.

For Torres to hit someone from the side, on the shoulder (as opposed to a front to back collision which might at least cause more powerful whiplash), so hard as to actually cause Stoll to suffer a concussion without Stoll's head actually impacting on anything......I don't buy it.

I've seen many shoulder checks in hockey games. I've seen many tackles from the side in football games. I have never once seen a player suffer a serious concussion just from a sideways hit where the player's head didn't actually hit anything else (i.e. other player, boards, ground, etc.).

This could be a first. There could have been other times and this is just the first time a concussion was ever reported on such a side no-head-contact hit. But given the video, the

 

[crunchyblack*]

I hope its not a ton of games. would like to get him back at some point.

but im hoping the injustice gets these guys fired up.

This is what I'm hoping too, except they don't have enough Warm bodies on offense TO get fired up, that's the problem.

 

[Levie]

Yeah... If they aren't going to announce it until they edit the video doesn't that indicate that this is going to be a long one....

 

[Kitten Mittons]

Everybody gets convicted in that show, so no







Yes, I know they lost a couple times

Am I the only one who thinks that main cop guy looks hella slimy and shady? Why would they make him the detective or whatever? He should be playing some villain. I've watched like 15 min of the show so I dunno his name.

 

[Led Zappa]

Side collisions don't cause the face to rotate. Head motion side to side? Yes. But the nose and jaw would not rotate completely independently from the rest of the body.....unless the principal point for the force of the impact was the head.

That's assuming that the hit is at an exact angle, otherwise your incorrect about the twisting of the head and when your talking mailable bodies instead of steal it also takes away from your argument.

 

[rangerssharks414]

I'm gonna guess 10 games just based on his reputation (I was worried at the time of the hit, but I thought it was clean), but hey, what do I know. Torres definitely isn't playing tonight, though since he won't make it back to LA in time, suspension or not.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

OK I'm done here.

 

[Coily]

It was fun while it lasted Torres.

 

[hockeyball]

I don't think we see him again this season.

 

[nosoupforyou]

What the F happened to this league?!? Players NEED to keep their heads up! Everything is a suspension now or considered a "head shot."

Remember this guy?! Every single one of these hits would be suspended today by these standards! (And notice how the other teams never go after him after the play either, even the players back then knew that hitting was a part of the game and you didn't need to goon it up after every single hit)

yeah, let's not care one bit for the lives of the people that we get to WATCH play a GAME because it is okay for them to get massive brain damage, Parkinsons, never walk properly again, and commit suicide from chronic traumatic encephalopathy because we need to be entertained.

[Mod]

 

[rangerssharks414]

I don't think we see him again this season.

Or in a Sharks uniform ever, possibly.

 

[nosoupforyou]

That's assuming that the hit is at an exact angle, otherwise your incorrect about the twisting of the head and when your talking mailable bodies instead of steal it also takes away from your argument.

if Stoll gets hit in the shoulder, his head won't twist. it will move in direct reaction to the point of contact in a linear fashion (side to side). The head is twisting because there was force applied in a torque fashion - either on the cheek or toward the chin that is not in line with the neck. If he got popped in the ear (in line with his neck), his head would go straight to the side and not twist.

basic physics.

 

[pappaf2]

Yeah... If they aren't going to announce it until they edit the video doesn't that indicate that this is going to be a long one....

I'm hoping that they announce it like some wrestling intro, right before the players come out on the ice the announce no suspension for Raffi followed by a video from the league showing his greatest hits!