Hearing for Torres on Stoll hit (Thurs 9am PT, NYC; w/DW); out for rest of WCSF

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Wow. That's an incredibly desperate stretch.

Hockey players don't miss entire playoff games from nosebleeds. They don't even miss shifts from nosebleeds.

But I will concede that based on that report, you are technically correct. It may not technically be a concussion. Most of the evidence points to that, but it is not conclusive.

It could technically be just a broken jaw

.........caused by Torres' shoulder coming into direct contact with Stoll's head.

wrong, direct contact would mean that he hit Stolls head first.

 

[KT]

Not that it matters. Concussions can occur without a hit to the head.

Sure it matters. A concussion "possibility" left hanging in the air (yet curiously unsaid) by the Kings' org is going to affect Shanny's verdict. A non-concussion would be considered a far lesser injury. A concussion can put you out for the season. A neck tweak or a headache can put you in the game tonight.

 

[NWShark*]

Here's the Torres hit:

Here's the Desjardins hit on Mayers earlier in the year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHgT_ccSTA4



The best view is at the 1:58 mark.

Desjardins hits Mayers squarely in the shoulder and Mayers' body goes flying. Mayers' head tilts side to side with the force of the impact, but if you watch carefully, his head really doesn't turn/rotate much. Mayers' nose/face stay pretty much in line with his chest. There is some turning of the head, but it is minor and follows along with his mid-section.

That's what happens when you have solid shoulder-shoulder contact. It's like being in a car crash. Your head may tilt side to side with the body impact, but it will typically remain facing in the same direction as the rest of the torso. Your head isn't going to violently rotate 90* to one side.

Contrast that with the Torres .gif.

Stoll's head turns sharply and it's the first thing to turn. Head/jaw/face rotates quickly to the left, then the rest of the body follows. If it was pure shoulder-shoulder, his face would have stayed mostly in line with his torso, and any head movement would have come as an after effect of the body collision.

Stoll's head turns first, THEN his skate lifts off the ice. Head goes first. It snaps 90* to the left in the same time and direction as Torres shoulder.

Your analysis is wrong. The whiplash from Stolls head happens so fast it not seen very well. There is shoulder to shoulder contact, Stolls head whips forward toward the impact point where it possibly bounces off Torres back just like a car wreck. The gifs angle basically solidifies that there is very little to no contact between Torres and stills head. The reverse angle you can't tell at all because Torres body obstructs stills as he slides in front of him after initial contact.

Stoll suffers severe whiplash not a direct headshot. Both can make the brain impact the cranial wall and cause a severe concussion.

Any other interpretations of the hit, frankly are just wishful thinking by Torres haters.

 

[Winky]

wrong, direct contact would mean that he hit Stolls head first.

Not necessarily. "Direct contact" means one body part directly contacts another part.

Initial point of contact implies whether the direct contact was first, as opposed to second, or third. Direct doesn't refer to whether the contact was first or not.

 

[NWShark*]

This is not a criminal trial..is he suspended or not? I find it ironic that the disciplinary board is full ex-nhlers who were dirtbags on the ice.

It takes one to know one? Lol!!

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Not that it matters. Concussions can occur without a hit to the head.

Sure it matters. A concussion "possibility" left hanging in the air (yet curiously unsaid) by the Kings' org is going to affect Shanny's verdict. A non-concussion would be considered a far lesser injury. A concussion can put you out for the season. A neck tweak or a headache can put you in the game tonight.

I don't think you got his point, that you can get a concussion without taking a hit to the head.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Going on 4 hours since hearing started? They must really be debating this one.

 

[ChompChomp]

Going on 4 hours since hearing started? They must really be debating this one.

The hearing "only" lasted 2.5 hours.

 

[Led Zappa]

Going on 4 hours since hearing started? They must really be debating this one.

It's over. They just haven't said what the result is.

 

[ChompChomp]

I wonder when the video is posted on NHL.com (whatever the result), if everyone trying to watch it will crash the site. LOL

 

[NWShark*]

Similar to what Raffi did. Stoll put himself in a vulnerable position before he got hit. Raffi was going for a shoulder to shoulder hit and Stoll moved.

Good lord I would never want to be hit by Murray. I think god made sure he couldn't skate very well to take pity on the rest of humanity...

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

It's over. They just haven't said what the result is.

The hearing may be over, but is Shanahan and co, possibly still debating what to do?

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

The hearing "only" lasted 2.5 hours.

That is still a long time.

 

[Led Zappa]

The hearing may be over, but is Shanahan and co, possibly still debating what to do?

Maybe, but they immediately said the decision wouldn't be released until later in the day.

I don't hold out much hope. 2 hours of DW pleading his case means to me that they want to suspend him and you usually don't win an argument after 2 hours of debate on 2 seconds worth of tape.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

The hearing may be over, but is Shanahan and co, possibly still debating what to do?

They could be doing that and/or are making a video.

 

[pappaf2]

Nah DW took them all tanning after it was over.

 

[slocal]

Shanny needs to get his hair did and face put on.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
wrong, direct contact would mean that he hit Stolls head first.

Not necessarily. "Direct contact" means one body part directly contacts another part.

Initial point of contact implies whether the direct contact was first, as opposed to second, or third. Direct doesn't refer to whether the contact was first or not.

Go Directly to Jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

 

[Clarkington III]

I NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'll be at the game tonight and this is a mini let down. Free Torres!!!

 

[SJGoalie32]

Similar to what Raffi did. Stoll put himself in a vulnerable position before he got hit. Raffi was going for a shoulder to shoulder hit and Stoll moved.

Three major differences:

1) The head was not the principal point of contact in the Murray collision. It may have been impacted, but it was not the principal point.

2) There was never a point in that sequence where Murray was behind Eriksson. He was off at a bit of an angle and skated perpendicular to Eriksson's path, but when the contact occurred, Murray was in front of Eriksson. Not to the side. Torres started out behind Stoll, built up a head of steam, looped around and impacted from the side.

3) The biggest difference I see between the two.....unlike Torres, Murray initially and primarily went for and actually made contact with the puck.

Heck, he didn't just make contact with it, he cleared it off to the boards in the direction he wanted it to go and was skating himself. In that instant, Murray effectively became the puck carrier. Had Eriksson been another step or two behind, Murray likely would have controlled and retained possession of the puck and dumped it deeper in to the O-zone. The hit was not Murray's objective, the puck was.

Both players reached for the puck, Murray got to it first then braced himself for the impact of Eriksson's hit. There was a collision, but it was a collision initiated as much if not more by Eriksson skating into Murray....and we all know how many players have hurt themselves when trying to hit Murray when he has or just after he releases the puck.

Torres on the other hand clearly never had any intention of getting the puck. His route ignored the puck. He made no effort to reach for the puck. He actually had a chance to make contact with the bouncing puck. He ignored it and went for the hit the whole way. And despite being focused on and going for the hit the entire way, he STILL missed most of the shoulder.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I'm sure at the very least DW is getting on to them about their contradictory enforcement of the rules. I'm certain he's brought up Dustin Brown's name and has said to watch for that [Mod].

 

[murdock1116]

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Not that it matters. Concussions can occur without a hit to the head.




I don't think you got his point, that you can get a concussion without taking a hit to the head.

Yup.

One of the big misnomers is that "Illegal Hits," "Head Shots" and Fighting are the biggest causes of concussions. When in actuality they only account for a small percentage of them.

Most concussions come from general "legal" contact and accidental collisions.

But the NHL doesn't want to acknowledge that. They just want to put up the front that they are doing everything in their power to protect the players.

 

[209]

I was t-boned in a vehicle. I had a concussion and there was no direct impact to my head. Its called whiplash.

 

[Alwalys]

yeah, let's not care one bit for the lives of the people that we get to WATCH play a GAME because it is okay for them to get massive brain damage, Parkinsons, never walk properly again, and commit suicide from chronic traumatic encephalopathy because we need to be entertained.

[Mod]

They get paid millions to play a game for a reason.

 

[Alwalys]

I think another damning thing about this circus is this probably wouldn't have even happened to Matt Cooke because he's a Pen.