Hawks of Yesteryear Part II - Madden AHL 17

[BK]

Here's some research, last year with Kruger the Hawks earned 52 points in 41 games, without him they earned 51 points in 41 games. Seems just fine to me.

Think it is as simple as that? If it was that simple shouldn't the Hawks have won the cup last year because they scored more points (103) than 2015 when they won the cup (102).

How about the decreased production form certain players that now had to be used in Kruger's role when he was out?

Kruger being out has a direct impact on Toews. With Kruger in the lineup Toews can be afforded easier matchups and this should help him increase his production. Toews having to take more defensive zone starts is one of the factors that reduced his production. Playing in the defensive zone is a bigger grind for players.

 

[BobbyJet]

Here's some research, last year with Kruger the Hawks earned 52 points in 41 games, without him they earned 51 points in 41 games. Seems just fine to me.

Exactly. The over rating of Kruger goes on, and on, and on. Good on him though to pull the wool over people's eyes including Hawk management.

 

[BK]

Exactly. The over rating of Kruger goes on, and on, and on. Good on him though to pull the wool over people's eyes including Hawk management.

Do you actually think I have the wool pulled over my eyes? You have seen me break things down time and time again. A lot has to do with how people value certain roles. The shutdown center role on the Hawks is critical to the Hawks success. The role allows Q to really exploit matchups (which is one of his major strengths as a coach NOT SAYING HE DOES NOT HAVE WEAKNESSES). Marcus Kruger in his defensive role is a much better fit than PD, this is what the Hawks need.

I have said multiple times Kruger is over paid by .5 to 1 million per.

 

[JaegerDice]

Standings points is one of the weakest means of measuring player impact on team performance in hockey. It has minimal descriptive or predictive value.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Yup, Hawks totally win their latest Cup with an AHL replacement player over Kruger.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Yup, Hawks totally win their latest Cup with an AHL replacement player over Kruger.

What does 2015 have to do with 2017 and Danault?

No one was calling for Danault to replace Kruger in 2015 ,, It is about Danault replacing Kruger this year and beyond as should have been case

 

[JaegerDice]

What does 2015 have to do with 2017 and Danault?

No one was calling for Danault to replace Kruger in 2015 ,, It is about Danault replacing Kruger this year and beyond as should have been case

You're the one who consistently argues the Blackhawks can't afford to 'waste' a year of their core in pursuit of championships.

Yet here you are arguing that they should replace a proven shutdown center that succeeds to a greater degrees at a tougher assignment than your preferred replacement.

It's madness.

 

[BK]

You're the one who consistently argues the Blackhawks can't afford to 'waste' a year of their core in pursuit of championships.

Yet here you are arguing that they should replace a proven shutdown center that succeeds to a greater degrees at a tougher assignment than your preferred replacement.

It's madness.

JD this is called sticking to the agenda.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

You're the one who consistently argues the Blackhawks can't afford to 'waste' a year of their core in pursuit of championships.

Yet here you are arguing that they should replace a proven shutdown center that succeeds to a greater degrees at a tougher assignment than your preferred replacement.

It's madness.

An expendable non core piece being replaced by younger/just as good piece is not going to hold back team

Also that cap room opened up by moving on from Kruger would allow for improved roster around this core

 

[DPHawk]

Think it is as simple as that? If it was that simple shouldn't the Hawks have won the cup last year because they scored more points (103) than 2015 when they won the cup (102).

2015 as in the year where Kane missed 21 games and the Hawks point pace fell to 90 without him? So yes, they 2015 was a better team and would've earned more points. And I do think it is simple enough that if Kruger is as important and many people say the Hawks should have seen a noticeable drop in wins/points.

How about the decreased production form certain players that now had to be used in Kruger's role when he was out?

Player' roles and production is going to change when an everyday player goes out of the lineup, the fact that the team as a whole didn't see a real drop in ability to earn points shows his impact is not that big.

Kruger being out has a direct impact on Toews. With Kruger in the lineup Toews can be afforded easier matchups and this should help him increase his production. Toews having to take more defensive zone starts is one of the factors that reduced his production. Playing in the defensive zone is a bigger grind for players.

Toews' best offensive months were January and Febuary, when Kruger played 0 games.

 

[DPHawk]

Yup, Hawks totally win their latest Cup with an AHL replacement player over Kruger.

They are trying to win their 4th Cup (which is what we're actually talking about) with an AHL replacement for Sharp/Saad.

 

[BK]

They are trying to win their 4th Cup (which is what we're actually talking about) with an AHL replacement for Sharp/Saad.

You mean Panik who is out playing both?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Maddon/Pahlsson before or during their Chicago tenure?

Before

 

[DPHawk]

You mean Panik who is out playing both?

He's shooting 46%. Nice pickup but I don't believe in him in the top 6 and it wasn't enough last year.

 

[BK]

He's shooting 46%. Nice pickup but I don't believe in him in the top 6 and it wasn't enough last year.

Obviously he will not keep shooting that way but from what he has shown overall scoring 40-50 points is not out of the question.

AA should hit 55 points this year so that replaces Saad/Sharp plus Panik at 40-45 replaces Richards.

Looking at it from a siloed view neither player is Saad/Sharp but overall they will put up similar production that will negate the loss of Saad (Sharp was declining harder than people realize).

I do think Panik has Sharp like late bloomer potential. He has the skill and untill now he has not put it all together. He needs to minimize his mistakes and keep his confidence going. The skill, speed, and size are there.

 

[Hawkaholic]

They are trying to win their 4th Cup (which is what we're actually talking about) with an AHL replacement for Sharp/Saad.

Panarin replaced Saad, and Anisimov seems to be replacing Sharp quite decently.

 

[DPHawk]

Obviously he will not keep shooting that way but from what he has shown overall scoring 40-50 points is not out of the question.

AA should hit 55 points this year so that replaces Saad/Sharp plus Panik at 40-45 replaces Richards.

Looking at it from a siloed view neither player is Saad/Sharp but overall they will put up similar production that will negate the loss of Saad (Sharp was declining harder than people realize).

I do think Panik has Sharp like late bloomer potential. He has the skill and untill now he has not put it all together. He needs to minimize his mistakes and keep his confidence going. The skill, speed, and size are there.

Sure Panik has worked out OK, replacing expensive players with cheaper players is the key continuing to contend. Replacing Kruger with "an AHL player" is something that should happen to allow us to keep/replace more important and harder to replace players like upcoming free agents Panarin and Panik.

 

[DPHawk]

Panarin replaced Saad, and Anisimov seems to be replacing Sharp quite decently.

Panik is playing all of his shifts with Toews, whoever you want to compare him with he's playing a huge role as "an AHL player" but you seem OK with that. Replacing Kruger is much easier than finding a competent cheap top 6 winger.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Panik is playing all of his shifts with Toews, whoever you want to compare him with he's playing a huge role as "an AHL player" but you seem OK with that. Replacing Kruger is much easier than finding a competent cheap top 6 winger.

You named 2 players that left, I named 2 players that replaced them the very next year. I would say Panik is replacing Shaw from last year, which I am more than OK with as of right now.

Saad and Sharp were cheap?

 

[DPHawk]

You named 2 players that left, I named 2 players that replaced them the very next year. I would say Panik is replacing Shaw from last year, which I am more than OK with as of right now.

Saad and Sharp were cheap?

No, that's the point. Kruger's money would be better spent on the top 6 since those players are more expensive, more important, and harder to come by.

 

[Hawkaholic]

No, that's the point. Kruger's money would be better spent on the top 6 since those players are more expensive, more important, and harder to come by.

We don't need any more top 6 players. We need good defensive bottom six players.

 

[DPHawk]

We don't need any more top 6 players. We need good defensive bottom six players.

Our top 2 LWs are FAs this year, and they're both due big raises and keeping them or replacing them is a much better use of our cap than spending it on a center with zero offensive game.

 

[JaegerDice]

Panik is playing all of his shifts with Toews, whoever you want to compare him with he's playing a huge role as "an AHL player" but you seem OK with that. Replacing Kruger is much easier than finding a competent cheap top 6 winger.

People keep saying this, but there are very few players in the NHL that take the workload that Kruger does, let alone succeed at it to the degree he does.

Kruger is a rarity.

 

[TLEH]

I mean if we paid Saad 6 million that would be a bad deal for production for cap hit all things considered. Rather give that to Panarin.

 

[DPHawk]

People keep saying this, but there are very few players in the NHL that take the workload that Kruger does, let alone succeed at it to the degree he does.

Kruger is a rarity.

You don't need someone starting 80% of their shifts in the Dzone, the Hawks didn't have in 2010 or 2013 and things worked out OK, they didn't have it for 41 games last year and Toews played well, Kane played well, and the points kept coming. Other players don't do it because it is not something you have to do to win. Plenty of cheap players can handle the ~35% Ozone starts the Hawks checking center saw pre-2014.