Hawks of Yesteryear Part II - Madden AHL 17

[Hawkaholic]

No the whole point was that the season with Montreal was a fluke. This was your original statement. His production at this rate happened two years in a row. This is what proves you wrong. Don't even try and move the bar.

Yes, he is not a 0.38pt/gm player. Which means, at least in my mind, that those 2 seasons were a fluke.

 

[BK]

That trend, is based on partial seasons and the move on the first 2 is insignificant, even from year 2-3 looks good from a ppg standpoint but is pretty meaningless. Over the 50 game average the difference is 8 points. Not a big deal.

All that does is make the MTL years look like even bigger outliers.

When dealing with such small numbers, the ppg difference is not very valuable. A guy goes from 8 points to 12. WOW a 50% increase. You get my drift.

Do you need a graph to see the trend? This is a serious question.

There is a steady increase in ppg production every single year.

 

[BobbyJet]

That trend, is based on partial seasons and the move on the first 2 is insignificant, even from year 2-3 looks good from a ppg standpoint but is pretty meaningless. Over the 50 game average the difference is 8 points. Not a big deal.

All that does is make the MTL years look like even bigger outliers.

When dealing with such small numbers, the ppg difference is not very valuable. A guy goes from 8 points to 12. WOW a 50% increase. You get my drift.

But seriously who really cares. I can't believe you guys are still arguing about this. Weise was never going to be in Chicago to score goals, though he could. He was here to be a grinding 4th liner who played north/south hockey and got under people's skins. Perhaps with the occasional move up the line-up if he's going well, but nothing more... and as trivial as that sounds it isn't. Not in the playoffs.

 

[BK]

Yes, he is not a 0.38pt/gm player. Which means, at least in my mind, that those 2 seasons were a fluke.

Now you are moving it again. First you take away the season with PP time and now you remove the other season where he scored well. He scored like a 3rd line player (this is what he was used as).

Player used as a 3rd line player scores like a 3rd line player....must be a fluke. GREAT logic.

 

[BK]

But seriously who really cares. I can't believe you guys are still arguing about this. Weise was never going to be in Chicago to score goals, though he could. He was here to be a grinding 4th liner who played north/south hockey and got under people's skins. Perhaps with the occasional move up the line-up if he's going well, but nothing more... and as trivial as that sounds it isn't. Not in the playoffs.

It is the principle of the argument and his blatant lack of logic that bugs me.

Bottom 6 player. When used in 4th line role he produces at that rate and when used in a 3rd line role he produces at that rate. This is just a versatile bottom 6 player.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Now you are moving it again. First you take away the season with PP time and now you remove the other season where he scored well. He scored like a 3rd line player (this is what he was used as).

Player used as a 3rd line player scores like a 3rd line player....must be a fluke. GREAT logic.

I'm not moving anything, that has been my stance the whole entire time, sorry if you misunderstood it.

I don't think he is a 30pt player, I think he is a 20pt player max. That was my complete argument the whole entire time.

 

[BK]

I'm not moving anything, that has been my stance the whole entire time, sorry if you misunderstood it.

I don't think he is a 30pt player, I think he is a 20pt player max. That was my complete argument the whole entire time.

That is fine. BUT you said the seasons were a fluke and that is what I was arguing (along with others).

 

[Hawkaholic]

That is fine. BUT you said the seasons were a fluke and that is what I was arguing (along with others).

?????????????????

If I don't think he is a 30+pt player, and I think he is a 20pt player max, that means that I think those were fluke seasons (aka, he won't ever score at a ~0.38pt/gm pace ever again)

I'm not sure what is being misunderstood here.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

The Habs depth was trash and Therrien loved Weise

If Q started playing Desi in top 6 at times , A consistent top 9 role and gave him PP time ,, Guess what Desi would see his production increase as well

So at end of day Dale Weise is the terrible 4th liner that he has always been. Just had his #'s inflated in Mtl because of coach and situation he was put in

On respectable NHL teams he is nothing more then a #12/#13 F,, And his career shows that

 

[hawksrule]

?????????????????

If I don't think he is a 30+pt player, and I think he is a 20pt player max, that means that I think those were fluke seasons (aka, he won't ever score at a ~0.38pt/gm pace ever again)

I'm not sure what is being misunderstood here.

Take a statistics class, this is painful.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Take a statistics class, this is painful.

You mean the stats that show he is a 20pt player max in every season except the two in MTL?

 

[Blue Liner]

Oh my God with this ****.

 

[hawksrule]

You mean the stats that show he is a 20pt player max in every season except the two in MTL?

Coming into the season 46% of his games were with mtl. It makes no sense to disregard them. None.

It makes as much sense as disregarding all the games he didn't score. I think those are flukes. Wow, look at that, he's over ppg.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Coming into the season 46% of his games were with mtl. It makes no sense to disregard them. None.

It makes as much sense as disregarding all the games he didn't score. I think those are flukes. Wow, look at that, he's over ppg.

And for 54% of his career before and after MTL, he was less than a 20pt player, It makes no sense to disregard those. None. (especially when he is on pace for 12pts this year)

Like I said, we'll see where he goes the next 2 years, so far...he is proving me right that he will be less than 20pts this year.

You and BK obviously think he is a 30+pt player. Have fun being wrong about that.

 

[hawksrule]

And for 54% of his career before and after MTL, he was less than a 20pt player, It makes no sense to disregard those.

Ding ding ding. That's why BK presented the whole body of work.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Ding ding ding. That's why BK presented the whole body of work.

Except that he is ignoring how terrible he has been since he left MTL. If he was on pace for 25 or more points this year, we probably aren't even having this discussion. But, he is back to the player he was before MTL.

 

[hawksrule]

Except that he is ignoring how terrible he has been since he left MTL. If he was on pace for 25 or more points this year, we probably aren't even having this discussion. But, he is back to the player he was before MTL.

We're back to cherry picking data? Okay, than Wiese is ppg in the games I think should count.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Do you need a graph to see the trend? This is a serious question.

There is a steady increase in ppg production every single year.

Please, as my 2nd career I am an independent stock and futures trader so I think I can spot a trend.

What you are calling a (significant I think) trend is what I call noise.

Weise is not an up and comer.

 

[BK]

Please, as my 2nd career I am an independent stock and futures trader so I think I can spot a trend.

What you are calling a (significant I think) trend is what I call noise.

Weise is not an up and comer.

5 years?

If you don't see the trend you need to actually look again.

Noise would be 1 year as an outlier.

Trends are part of my everyday full-time job (5 years as a analyst and not 2 years as a buyer). 5 years of constant increase is 100% a trend. The key is to figure out when the player/item/stock has plateaued.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

5 years?

If you don't see the trend you need to actually look again.

Noise would be 1 year as an outlier.

Trends are part of my everyday full-time job (5 years as a analyst and not 2 years as a buyer). 5 years of constant increase is 100% a trend. The key is to figure out when the player/item/stock has plateaued.

Noise is also insignificant movement, which this is.

You are reading waaay to much into those stats IMO.

Reminds me of a bet I made with a buddy when Frolik came to the Hawks. I said he would NEVER score 20 goals in a season again. Pretty long odds but so far I'm right 5 for 5.

 

[Vacheron]

 

[Hawkaholic]

We're back to cherry picking data? Okay, than Wiese is ppg in the games I think should count.

My opinion (and other peoples opinion) is that he is a 20pt player max (while using stats from every team he has played for outside of MTL to argue why I think so), that had a couple of good, flukey seasons in MTL. So far this year, a max 20pt player is what he is (on pace for 12pts). You guys think he is a 30+ point player, fine. We'll see who is right as the season and years go by. No one is wrong, we each have different opinions on the type of player he is.

If he scores at a 30pt pace for the next two or 3 years, I will gladly admit I am wrong. Until then, there is zero point of having this discussion anymore.

 

[hawksrule]

My opinion (and other peoples opinion) is that he is a 20pt player max (while using stats from every team he has played for outside of MTL to argue why I think so), that had a couple of good, flukey seasons in MTL. So far this year, a max 20pt player is what he is (on pace for 12pts). You guys think he is a 30+ point player, fine. We'll see who is right as the season and years go by. No one is wrong, we each have different opinions on the type of player he is.

If he scores at a 30pt pace for the next two or 3 years, I will gladly admit I am wrong. Until then, there is zero point of having this discussion anymore.

I'm not saying he will score 30. I'm merely offended at your misuse of statistics.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I'm not saying he will score 30. I'm merely offended at your misuse of statistics.

What misuse?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

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