Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

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Is Messi the GOAT in all sports?

  • Yes

  • No, it's still Gretzky

  • No, it's still Jordan

  • No, it's another hockey player (Orr/Howe/Lemieux/etc)

  • No, it's another athlete from a different sport


Results are only viewable after voting.

Kshahdoo

Registered User
Mar 23, 2008
20,084
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Moscow, Russia
Before giving history lessons, maybe learn the basics. You said barca hasn't won a UCL since 2011, which is wrong. Now you're saying Messi won 3 UCLs which is again wrong. If you're going to make up your own stats and records then of course you'll win every argument.

Messi scored just one goal in 2005-06 CL run and didn't play in the quaterfinals, semifinals and the final game so yeah, while technically he won the league, he played in less than half games during that run and he wasn't even a starter in most games he played in...

Anyway, if we talk about him as the best player ever that run won't add anything to his portfolio. I know, you can say Messi was very young back to then. Ok, Pele was 17 at the WC 58 and still scored 6 goals in 4 games...
 
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Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
26,455
15,651
Montreal, QC
Messi scored just one goal in 2005-06 CL run and didn't play in the quaterfinals, semifinals and the final game so yeah, while technically he won the league, he played in less than half games during that run and he wasn't even a starter in most games he played in...

Anyway, if we talk about him as the best player ever that run won't add anything to his portfolio. I know, you can say Messi was very young back to then. Ok, Pele was 17 at the WC 58 and still scored 6 goals in 4 games...

The difference in competition for Pele and Messi is an ocean.
 
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PostBradMalone

Registered User
Mar 19, 2022
2,883
6,256
Quoting myself from an older post I made about Donald Bradman who I believe is the true GOAT of GOATs:

I would say Donald Bradman. For those unfamiliar, he was a cricket batsman who dominated the sport from 1927-49. Like Orr, his style had a significant impact on the game and how other teams defended.

How dominant was he? Well, in cricket, the objective is to score runs. Scoring 100 runs in a single innings, or at-bat, is called a "century". This is roughly equivalent to a hat trick in hockey. During the 2021 test cricket season for example- which is when each top-flight country plays each other, making it similar to an elongated playoffs- only 11 players had two or more centuries. In the NHL this year, 16 players had 2 or more hat tricks.

Donald Bradman averaged just under a century (99.9) an INNINGS. His entire test career, which again is the absolute best against best. In first-class cricket, which is more equivalent to regular season play as it's done at the domestic level, his batting average was actually a shade less (95 runs an innings). No other player for any country comes anywhere close, and he regularly put up double and even triple centuries during his career.

To look at it another way, Bradman's first-class batting average was 95.14, 28% higher than second place, which is 71.64. Mike Bossy, the NHL's career leader in GPG, is 0.76. That means you can roughly consider 100 runs to be equal to one goal. Obviously, if a player averaged a goal per game during a 20-year career, we'd consider them not of this earth. You're talking 1,500 goals, or nearly double Gretzky's total. That was Bradman to cricket- just a freak of nature who emerged one day from the Australian bush and destroyed nearly every record in the sport.

TLDR Imagine an NHL player averaging a GPG for 20 seasons and scoring 6+ goals in a game as often as other stars score hat tricks. That was Bradman to cricket.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
73,353
29,316
If you want it to be Messi, sure. If you want it to be Gretzky, sure. If you want it to be Jordan, sure.

There's no real wrong answer.

Gretzky has massive statistical dominance + a good number of championships.

Jordan is perhaps the ultimate winner, perfect 6/6 in the Finals, Finals MVP every time, and 2-0 in the Olympics, won the scoring title every full season he played for the Bulls from his 3rd season onwards.

Messi had a great overall career and finally topped it off with a World Cup.
 

Gravity

Generational Poster
Feb 27, 2017
12,177
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In a Barred Spiral
Honestly, it's Messi and it's not even close. Gretzky was amazing but hockey is still a rich white man's game. Football is a global game with a much larger talent pool. To be the cream of the crop there is a whole other thing. Messi is the GOAT athlete.
 

DaaaaB's

Registered User
Apr 24, 2004
8,590
2,176
The greatest of muhammad ali can never be surpassed
I doesn't disagree even though most boxing experts don't consider him the best boxer ever (Sugar Ray Robinson is pretty unanimously considered the best ever). No athlete transcended sports the way Ali did though and he's probably the best heavyweight ever.

As for this poll, it's silly and waste of time. Jordan isn't even considered the GOAT for Basketball by many and some would say the same about Gretzky in Hockey. Some would say Ronaldo is better or damn close to Messi too. And there's no point in comparing athletes from different sports.
 
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sansabri

hello my enemies
Aug 12, 2005
32,301
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Court returned to competition in the open era and proceeded to win a slam as a pro. 12 slams in the open era. Didn't matter who she played. She crushed everyone
Serena was beating top 10 players at 16
 

Nathaniel Skywalker

Registered User
Oct 18, 2013
14,113
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I doesn't disagree even though most boxing experts don't consider him the best boxer ever (Sugar Ray Robinson is pretty unanimously considered the best ever). No athlete transcended sports the way Ali did though and he's probably the best heavyweight ever.

As for this poll, it's silly and waste of time. Jordan isn't even considered the GOAT for Basketball by many and some would say the same about Gretzky in Hockey. Some would say Ronaldo is better or damn close to Messi too. And there's no point in comparing athletes from different sports.
Ali is the greatest heavyweight which Is all that really matters
 

J bo Jeans

Registered User
Aug 7, 2020
1,232
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Ottawa
Honestly, it's Messi and it's not even close. Gretzky was amazing but hockey is still a rich white man's game. Football is a global game with a much larger talent pool. To be the cream of the crop there is a whole other thing. Messi is the GOAT athlete.
Exactly. I wouldnt be surprised if more people played soccer than all other sports combined. The best player from inarguably the largest talent pool of athletes ever is Messi and thats why hes the GOAT of the GOATS.
 
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Joey Banana

Registered User
Mar 9, 2012
445
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The Messi hype is justified, he's absolutely one of the all time best scorers in football. But best football player? No.

If he returns from his retirement contract to La Liga to play for an underdog team and leads them to a championship over Barca, we can talk about him being better than Cruyff or Beckenbauer.

The likes of Zidane or Maradona though? I don't think so.
 

johnnybbadd

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
1,176
1,224
Think of Messi as college players on Alabama. Always on a team that is full of resources and players that far exceed the average level of the leagues that he plays in. There are only a handful of teams that can win a CL or a World Cup because the front running teams are so much more superior. Gretzky and Jordan are many classes above Messi because soccer after the 90s became a game where the richest win period.
 

TheStatican

Registered User
Mar 14, 2012
1,710
1,450
by your own opinion. in my book he is.

he is clearly better than ronaldo and as they played at the same time and there were so many stats and arguments presented in this thread alone, to consider it a fact.

he is clearly better than maradona by simply being excellent for already 7 more years than maradona ever did and he still goes strong. if we talk most talented player, i can agree with maradona having more natural talent than messi. but he didn't enough with it in games to be called a better player. the arguments for maradona are mostly based on his myth among his fans (argentina and napoli). but he can't keep up with actual results and part of it was his lack of dedication to training and his life style.

as stated before it's difficult to compare pele to the others as he played in an area, where the game - world cup aside - wasn't a global game. still the fact, that pele only played one game in his last world cup win, tells us that his prime didn't last as long as messi's.
100% Agree.
 
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Wee Baby Seamus

Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
Mar 15, 2011
15,994
7,089
Halifax/Toronto
No, it's still Gretzky.

Stop trying to make soccer happen.
I regret to inform you that it been happening
The Messi hype is justified, he's absolutely one of the all time best scorers in football. But best football player? No.

If he returns from his retirement contract to La Liga to play for an underdog team and leads them to a championship over Barca, we can talk about him being better than Cruyff or Beckenbauer.

The likes of Zidane or Maradona though? I don't think so.
Chaotic post! There’s no case really for Zidane over either of Cruyff or Beckenbauer, and there really is no case at all for him over Messi.
 

TheStatican

Registered User
Mar 14, 2012
1,710
1,450
Think of Messi as college players on Alabama. Always on a team that is full of resources and players that far exceed the average level of the leagues that he plays in. There are only a handful of teams that can win a CL or a World Cup because the front running teams are so much more superior. Gretzky and Jordan are many classes above Messi because soccer after the 90s became a game where the richest win period.
I'm sorry but that's a laughably bad argument. As if super teams didn't exist in other sports or could not be created by other means. Gretzky only played on what is commonly seen as the most talented NHL team of ALL TIME. Even without him they still were capable of winning the cup and they did. And while they didn't win without him Jordan's bull's were no slouches either.
 

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