Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[steleh]

Gretzky is the most dominate athlete over his sport ever. That is his claim. Messi being the GOAT of a sport that has a global player base is his claim, while not as singularly dominate over his sport as Gretzky. I would still lean towards Wayne.

Wrong.
The most dominant athlete in all of sports when compared to his peers is Alexander Karelin.

 

[steleh]

nah jordan is the best to ever play a sport in my opinion.

You must not watch alot of sports then?

 

[BahlDeep]

I grew up a Messi fan, I played soccer in my teen years and watched his first Barca game as a teenager. This win cements him as the greatest soccer player of all time.

The dominance from Gretzky and Brady over shadow Messi's, while being the best in his sport he hasn't separated himself from Pele, Maradona and Ronaldo like the other 2 have from their peers.

Messi has 7 Ballon d'or and he might win his 8th one while being 36th.

No question asked, Messi is by far the GOAT.

 

[Saitama]

I think there's an argument that can be made for Messi among team sports. As for athletic dominance however it's very difficult to put him ahead of Michael Phelps. For comparison Phelps has 23 Olympic gold medals, the next closest person has 9. He has 28 medals in total with the next closest having 18, and 3rd place being 12.

There's also a guy in Cricket named Sir Donald Bradman. I don't know a ton about Cricket personally, but I did see a video of someone explaining his dominance of the sport, and it's actually unreal how much better he was than his peers.

You could make the argument that Swimming and Cricket are more niche sports so the dominance is not as impressive, but as a whole their level of dominance is still ahead of Messi without regard to popularity.

Cricket is a niche sport? Are you serious? Lmao!

 

[Foppberg]

Cricket is a niche sport? Are you serious? Lmao!

North American bias is real

 

[Saitama]

North American bias is real

No kidding. I'm a white guy from Winnipeg and Cricket is fantastic! I actually prefer it to baseball and I love baseball. Takes a bit to learn the rules but once you do, it's such a great sport!

 

[Rengorlex]

The best athlete of all time is definitely not a hockey player.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Cricket is a niche sport? Are you serious? Lmao!

In the US and Canada where most of the HFboard posters are generally from it is a niche sport. While there are a ton of fans of the sport in number, most tend to be from a specific segment of countries that were formerly British controlled or part of the British commonwealth. For most outside of those countries it's niche. Perhaps I should have clarified in North America it's seen that way.

 

[Saitama]

In the US and Canada where most of the HFboard posters are generally from it is a niche sport. While there are a ton of fans of the sport in number, most tend to be from a specific segment of countries that were formerly British controlled or part of the British commonwealth. For most outside of those countries it's niche. Perhaps I should have clarified in North America it's seen that way.

This thread specifically is asking about the GOAT of all sports, not all North American sports.

 

[Hockeyholic]

John Cena had 16 different reigns as WWE champion.

That has to be up there.

 

[Canes]

He is absolutely the biggest superstar in sports history. Even in North America Gretzky is generally forgettable, Jordan absolutely trounces him there. So this poll is laughable. But I get it, this is a hockey site full of weirdos.

 

[Saitama]

John Cena had 16 different reigns as WWE champion.

That has to be up there.

Yeah, but did anyone actually see him do it?

 

[Canes]

John Cena had 16 different reigns as WWE champion.

That has to be up there.

Yeah, must have been really difficult for him to written to be the GOAT. Amazing accomplishment for sure.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

This thread specifically is asking about the GOAT of all sports, not all North American sports.

And again, It was explaining to primarily North Americans about an athlete in a sport most aren't familiar with. But hey keep being uppity about it, it's cool.

 

[canuckking1]

I'd still give the edge to Jordan due to the simple fact Basketball stars have a far bigger say on the outcome of a game

 

[glovesave_35]

(im not including women)

Jordan.... I mean, he wouldve had 8 championships AND 8 MVPs in 8 years. Lets not kid ourselves
Gretzky.... his records speak for themselves
Brady..... I believe QB to be the toughest position in all sport. He was the best, no question.
Messi/Ronaldo.... I think its still a debate, people were saying Ronaldo was the GOAT just 2 years ago. Mbappe will pass both barring injury, though
Ruth.... Best hitter ever, maybe the hardest "thing" to do in sports, and pitched quite well too
Woods/Nicklaus.... take your pick. They both dominated a sport where you face hundreds.
Djokovic.... say what you want about the guy, hes the greatest ever, and isnt close to being done.
Richie McCaw..... dont know enough about the sport, but if youre said to be the GOAT off rugby, then youre one HELL of an athlete.

I don't see the argument for Ronaldo over Messi.

Yeah, must have been really difficult for him to written to be the GOAT. Amazing accomplishment for sure.

Missed the joke I think.

 

[jcs0218]

John Cena had 16 different reigns as WWE champion.

That has to be up there.

Yeah, but did anyone actually see him do it?

Yeah, must have been really difficult for him to written to be the GOAT. Amazing accomplishment for sure.

Ric Flair also had 16, and he is ranked the #1 GOAT on Sports Illustrated's list.

Cena is only ranked 7th.

A definitive ranking of the 101 greatest wrestlers

SI.com's ranking of the top 101 wrestlers of all time.

www.si.com

 

[Plural]

Messi first has to pass Pele and Maradona as the best football player of all times.

How has he not? I fail to see anything Maradona or Pele have over him? Maybe you could argue Pele's WC history but as a full career profile, Messi is in a league of his own. In an era where competition is unreal.

 

[lomiller1]

I'd still give the edge to Jordan due to the simple fact Basketball stars have a far bigger say on the outcome of a game

Jordan is by far the biggest star and most important player in NBA history but there is legitimate question as to whether he's even the best basketball player of all time. There is a strong statistical argument for Labron being better, and when it comes to dominance over their peers neither is in the realm of what Wilt Chamberlin did at his peak.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

How has he not? I fail to see anything Maradona or Pele have over him? Maybe you could argue Pele's WC history but as a full career profile, Messi is in a league of his own. In an era where competition is unreal.

Pele's world cup history is overrated by people who never saw him play and just scream "3 world cups!". He played 1 game in 1962 and Brazil won without him. Can anyone imagine Argentina winning with Messi/Maradona playing 1 game? Pele is the most overrated player in football history.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Pele's world cup history is overrated by people who never saw him play and just scream "3 world cups!". He played 1 game in 1962 and Brazil won without him. Can anyone imagine Argentina winning with Messi/Maradona playing 1 game? Pele is the most overrated player in football history.

Pele was the best player at WC 58 and 70. He was by far the best player in 62 as well, but opponents just broke him because they couldn't stop him legally. If it were modern rules back to then, Brazilia opponents would have probably finished every game with 7 or 6 players...

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Pele was the best player at WC 58 and 70. He was by far the best player in 62 as well, but opponents just broke him because they couldn't stop him legally. If it were modern rules back to then, Brazilia opponents would have probably finished every game with 7 or 6 players...

I never said he wasn't the best player in those world cups.

 

[Kshahdoo]

How has he not? I fail to see anything Maradona or Pele have over him? Maybe you could argue Pele's WC history but as a full career profile, Messi is in a league of his own. In an era where competition is unreal.

What has Messi done outside of World Cups where he's clearly behind Pele and Maradona? Won a bunch of titles when Barca had like 200M+ moe expensive roster than any other team? As soon as other teams got big budgets, Barca and Messi haven't won anything. Barcelona won its last Champions League in 2011 year.

 

[lomiller1]

Ric Flair also had 16, and he is ranked the #1 GOAT on Sports Illustrated's list.

Cena is only ranked 7th.

A definitive ranking of the 101 greatest wrestlers

SI.com's ranking of the top 101 wrestlers of all time.

www.si.com

A "definitive" list that has Bruno Sammartino at #30? I mean the guy only held the WWWE title for 8 consecutive years on one title run and then had another of 5 years...

 

[Kshahdoo]

I never said he wasn't the best player in those world cups.

So how is he overrated if he was the best player at two World Cups (and won both) and couldn't become the one at the other two Cups just because he was purposely injured by opponents?