Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[SwedishFire]

The Brazilian Ronaldo.

I have Ronaldhino higher. He is top 4. He could do everything. Ubstoppable until alcohol and psychic problems hunt him down.

 

[amnesiac]

In my opinion the most dominant athletes in their respective sport:
1. Karelin, wrestling
2. Usain Bolt, track and field
3. Michael Jordan, basketball
4. Tiger Woods, golf
5. Roger Federer, Tennis
6. Michael Phelps, swimming
7. Wayne Gretzky, hockey
8. Jan-Ove Waldner, table tennis
9. Sergei Bobka, pole jump
10. Babe Ruth, baseball

personally, I dont consider someone who was born with God given (Jamaican) legs muscles and whos job is to only run in a straight line, in the same tier as what a Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Brady ahve done in their careers.

Nothing against Bolt, hes the fastest human ever. If he was a great decathlete, sure Id put him up there.

 

[TBF1972]

I have Ronaldhino higher. He is top 4. He could do everything. Ubstoppable until alcohol and psychic problems hunt him down.

health (physical and mental) is part of the game. if you can't keep up your level over a long period, you are simply no goat, because there are other equally remarkable players, who did.

 

[SwedishFire]

health (physical and mental) is part of the game. if you can't keep up your level over a long period, you are simply no goat, because there are other equally remarkable players, who did.

Well, he had a +10 years peak, and while having that peak no one touched him since. He and Maradona had increodble peak

 

[TBF1972]

View attachment 624826

george ist the goat.

not for playing football. but for everything else.

I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars – the rest I just squandered.

simply legendary

Well, he had a +10 years peak, and while having that peak no one touched him since. He and Maradona had increodble peak

ronaldhino was super talented, but mostly ineffective.

 

[Peeri]

Brazilian Ronaldo isnt on most lists when it comes to the soccer GOATS.

View attachment 624826

He absolutely is, literally rank 6 on this one, 2 places above Cristiano.

 

[joelef]

He still more known the Connor mcdavid

 

[JarvisFunk]

You could argue that Messi is more popular, and plays far and away the most popular sport, and is the GOAT at said sport. But he simply doesn't own the record book like Wayne does, in his respective league, or internationally.

So how do you define GOAT? Is it greatness relative to your peers, and in your respective sport? If that is the case the answer is still Wayne, and then probably even Jordan before Messi. Even a guy like Tony Hawk who essentially built skateboarding from the ground up fits the definition. TBH there are probably athletes from sports I don't even follow too.

If the GOAT belongs to the guy who plays the most popular sport, then I guess it's Messi by default. And I say this recognizing Messi is the greatest soccer player ever.

I lean towards the first definition.

 

[HSF]

Basketball is not a "very niche sport", and has, compared to ice hockey, orders of magnitude more players (pro and amateur) world wide.

Basketball is probably closer to hockey than soccer in terms of reach?

Soccer seems like its at a whole other level. Maybe cricket is after soccer and tennis ?

We are very biased in North America

 

[thomast]

Messi by far, there is sports beyond NA borders and comparing hockey to Football/Soccer is like comparing hockey to floorball, but if floorball was 10x smaller. Gretzky have case in NA sports GOAT debate, but he can’t be mentioned in the same breath with Messi if we think the global sports GOAT.

 

[psycat]

Wasn't Usain Bolt like the undisputed fastest man in both 100m and 200m for like 3 straight Olympics something previously done by Jesse Owens and Carl Lewis in probably the most accessible sport to anyone in the world, that is solely determined by yourself with no team influence (unless you include his dominent relay performances). I think if we are talking about GOAT of all sports I'd lean into that. Messi never dominated his field to that level, he was trading blows with Ronaldo at Club level for years. Jordan dominated his sport but its not as accessable as soccer or track, and while Gretzky owned his sport again its niche.

If we go by individual sports I would nominate Merckx and Karelin, perhaps Djokovic aswell. I probably would agree that the most dominant athlete is one in an individual sport even if I kinda find the whole concept of comparing between sports dubious at best.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

personally, I dont consider someone who was born with God given (Jamaican) legs muscles and whos job is to only run in a straight line, in the same tier as what a Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Brady ahve done in their careers.

Nothing against Bolt, hes the fastest human ever. If he was a great decathlete, sure Id put him up there.


Brazilian Ronaldo isnt on most lists when it comes to the soccer GOATS.

View attachment 624826

He's 6th on the list you posted lol

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It's obviously Messi over either Jordan and Gretzky.

 

[Mobiandi]

Messi passed Gretzky almost a decade ago

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Messi isn't leaps and

Messi passed Gretzky almost a decade ago

Oh really...seems like a silly statement to make. A decade ago Messi was not even half-way to his current goal total and cv of accomplishments. I guess Mbappé is about to eclipse Gretzky, if he hasn't already...right?

 

[amnesiac]

He absolutely is, literally rank 6 on this one, 2 places above Cristiano.

My bad

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

dont even know who he is

Flexing your lack of knowledge?

 

[tabness]

Flexing your lack of knowledge?

 

[MrOT]

In 10 years Alexander Karelin didn't lose a single point. Imagine that... Imagine a goalie who doesn't allow a goal in 10 years. He must be the most dominant athlete ever.

 

[aqsw]

It's soccer. Who cares!

 

[ChaosLord]

He is absolutely is. The argument over Jordan and Gretzky is a pretty easy one. Two great athletes but they do play very niche sports. Their competitive field is infinitely smaller. I think a lot of people in NA don't realize how competitive the sport is around the rest of the world, and to be ahead of the field in the manner that Messi has been, is a greater accomplishment.

Messi isn't even the greatest soccer player of all time -- I'd put both Pele and Maradonna ahead of him (and I saw all three play).

 

[goonybird]

He's no Francisco Churruca of Jai Alai

 

[Ben White]

In 10 years Alexander Karelin didn't lose a single point. Imagine that... Imagine a goalie who doesn't allow a goal in 10 years. He must be the most dominant athlete ever.

That’s just insane

Messi isn't even the greatest soccer player of all time -- I'd put both Pele and Maradonna ahead of him (and I saw all three play).

I think he’s challenging pele for #2 at this point for “greatest”. In terms of the “best” player I put Messi at #4 behind Maradona, Pelé and Brazilian Ronaldo. In terms of peak there’s a case for Ronaldinho as well in the top 4.

 

[SI90]

Does Messi have more career assists than any other player has career goals + assists ?

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

It’s still easily Gretzky

He is wildly underrated as far as athletes go

Nobody has dominated a team sport like he did other than that fellow in Cricket (Bradshaw?)

It's mostly because 90% of the global population doesn't even know who Gretzky is. Ice hockey is so far removed from most cultures/nations it's seen as a niche sport where there is just no way the GOAT athlete could be a hockey player, no matter how much separation there is between him and #2. It would be like trying to convince a Canadian that Adam Ondra was the goat athlete when most people don't consider sport rock climbing to be that big