Has Dubas failed at his job?

[ottomaddox]

My issue isn't with the GM but rather Leafs cap management and how we got here. I'm of the belief that its going to be extremely difficult to win with 1/2 your cap tied up in just 4 forwards, as it doesn't allow you to build a deep and competitive team around them to be successful come playoff time.

I believe Leafs lack of 1st round success is tied directly to this fact. Last year is was more obvious because when one of the 4 core particularly the $11 mil players go down to injury then suddenly your playing $11 mil down with his replacement generally a low level <$1 mil player, which exponentially amplifies this cap usage.

Up to now no team has ever won a playoff round with an double digit skater on their roster, and it when you see teams like Chicago and LA win 5 Cups in 6 years and then they paid their players for that success in Toews and Kane and Kopitar and Doughty and now they struggle to make the playoffs or get out of round #1.

There are only 3 ways out of this situation.

1) Win and prove that theory wrong that its not the cap management that is bringing this team down of toooo much cap in toooo few players.

2) Deal away at least 1 of the $11 mil players and spread the cap among numerous players to add quality depth. For example if you turned Marner into a $5 mil forward and $6 mil forward and you get 25-30 goals and 50-60 points from each you have more goal production than having just 1 X 25 goal scorer 90 point player into 50-60 goals and 100-120 points.

3) Try and create a top 9 with 1 X $11 mil player on each line to drive them and fill in around them and create mismatches for opposition by spreading out the cap among 3 lines all built to be dangerous offensively and hope that at least one line in any given game has the ability to secure a win. No team is deep enough to check and shutdown 3 lines .. However all your eggs in just 1 or 2 baskets plays right into the shutdown strategy of the opposition because if you limit or shutdown the core 4, you beat the Leafs.

XXXX -- -Matthews --- XXXX
XXXX ---Tavares -------XXXX
XXXX ---Nylander ----Marner

etc.

I like this post, but you 3rd point runs into the same problem: 50% of the cap allocated to 4 forwards. It is possible, but it would require our prospects to assume key positions. It could happen, but a major turn really has to happen 1st.

 

[Mess]

I like this post, but you 3rd point runs into the same problem: 50% of the cap allocated to 4 forwards. It is possible, but it would require our prospects to assume key positions. It could happen, but a major turn really has to happen 1st.

I see that as the only option if we want to continue with 4 forwards eating up 1/2 your cap.. Spread the wealth and then its 4 forwards in your top 9 and create 3 lines that work offensively.

Ideally I would want out of this and trade one of the $11 mil players but we know that is not going to happen until we see the results of this upcoming season as this is the last chance for this core and this management group to try and win under these conditions and cap situation. IMO

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

This is a complex question.

In the regular season no.

In the playoffs yes.

Is it as simple as it all being Dubas fault?

 

[Stephen]

I like this post, but you 3rd point runs into the same problem: 50% of the cap allocated to 4 forwards. It is possible, but it would require our prospects to assume key positions. It could happen, but a major turn really has to happen 1st.

The cap allocation of 3x guys making $11 million or so works when you have a corresponding contract at roughly a million dollars to average it all down. So a Spezza on league minimum contributing 40+ points, maybe a high end ELC or two (Robertson and Amirov), or a cheapo reclamation with upside (let's say Bunting or Verhaeghe on his previous deal). At that point you have 7 forwards (adding Nylander) making a total of $43 million or so. But there's very little margin for error and very little redundancy.

 

[egd27]

Again, every GM in the league...

Every GM in the league did not try to sign Tavares, and those that did, did not that have 3 Blue Chip RFA's to sign within a season of shelling out for an $11M UFA.

 

[Menzinger]

Just to add:

You can't be excellent at drafting when you trade away 1st round picks (3 so far).

I'd actually argue what seperates a good scouting team from a bad scouting team is their ability to identify NHLers beyond the 1st round.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yes. Yes he has.

One more playoff fail, and we can finally flush this failure of a GM down the toilet.

 

[Canadian Finn]

This is a complex question.

In the regular season no.

In the playoffs yes.

Is it as simple as it all being Dubas fault?

unless presidents trophy is your Stanley Cup, I think you answered your own question.

It is that simple.

 

[The CyNick]

Massive failure. Some say the biggest failure. Bad, bad results.

At best he's in the range of bottom 3 GMs in franchise history.

 

[notbias]

I believe he has. Would love to hear why he hasn’t. When you look at what he inherited the results havnt been good enough. Not many GMs begin their tenure with 3 game breaking offensive talents including a guy who at the time was widely viewed as the second most valuable asset in the league all on their ELC and Rielly on an amazing contract.

You just described what Lou had, not Dubas, Lou wasted the ELCs

 

[hotpaws]

You just described what Lou had, not Dubas, Lou wasted the ELCs

so you’re saying we should have won the cup in the next year or two after gutting the team and tanking for the potential to get the 1st overall pick ?

and Dubas still had everyone by Willie on their elc’s but the team regressed in his first season as GM

 

[ToneDog]

so you’re saying we should have won the cup in the next year or two after gutting the team and tanking fur the potential to gay the 1st pick ?

and Dubas still had everyone by Willie on their elc’s but the team regressed n his first season as GM

And there it is again. Dubas gifted the 3 amigos while Lou gets a tank team and it is Lou's fault. Gotta love it.

 

[hotpaws]

And there it is again. Dubas gifted the 3 amigos while Lou gets a tank team and it is Lou's fault. Gotta love it.

Yup , it’s everyone’s fault but Dubie’s , lol .

 

[Ciao]

Massive failure. Some say the biggest failure. Bad, bad results.

At best he's in the range of bottom 3 GMs in franchise history.

I'll call you on that.

Which General Managers among Dave Nonis, Brian Burke, John Ferguson Jr., Floyd Smith, Gord Stellick and GerryMcNamara were better than Kyle Dubas?

I say none of them.

Bottom-three at best -- not a chance. There's a lot of stiff competition for the worst-three Leafs' GM's ever, and Kyle Dubas doesn't make it

 

[keonsbitterness]

Ideally I would want out of this and trade one of the $11 mil players but we know that is not going to happen until we see the results of this upcoming season as this is the last chance for this core and this management group to try and win under these conditions and cap situation. IMO

All indications from the team suggest to me it's not their last chance.

Massive failure. Some say the biggest failure. Bad, bad results.

At best he's in the range of bottom 3 GMs in franchise history.

Worse than Punch Imlach (the second time), Gerry McNamara, Gord Stellick, Floyd Smith, JFJ, Brian Burke and Dave Nonis, who combined for eight playoff appearances in 23 years, of which six were in the 80s when 16 of 21 teams qualified?

 

[BayStBullies]

Hiring an inexperienced interim coach when your window is open... yup.

 

[Ciao]

All indications from the team suggest to me it's not their last chance.

Worse than Punch Imlach (the second time), Gerry McNamara, Gord Stellick, Floyd Smith, JFJ, Brian Burke and Dave Nonis, who combined for eight playoff appearances in 23 years, of which six were in the 80s when 16 of 21 teams qualified?

Imlach II was probably the worst ever --- and actual dartboard material at that.

Stellick was on a whole other dimension, and would have to come in second.

McNamara and Smith were a real piece of work, too, and Burke and Nonis -- well @The CyNick -- I question your judgment on this call. You may have a penchant for exaggeration that's on display here.

 

[PromisedLand]

where is the "Ohhhh Helll Yeahhhh" option?

 

[notbias]

so you’re saying we should have won the cup in the next year or two after gutting the team and tanking for the potential to get the 1st overall pick ?

and Dubas still had everyone by Willie on their elc’s but the team regressed in his first season as GM

They were talking about having 3 elite offensive talents on ELC, which you just clearly stated they weren't all on for any year that Dubas was GM.

So you took the point of my post, completely disregarded it, and then stated nonsense, congrats.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Imlach II was probably the worst ever --- and actual dartboard material at that.

Stellick was on a whole other dimension, and would have to come in second.

McNamara and Smith were a real piece of work, too, and Burke and Nonis -- well @The CyNick -- I question your judgment on this call. You may have a penchant for exaggeration that's on display here.

Years of soft teams that were skill oriented. He’s had more talent on these teams than most Leaf G.M’s going back to the 70’s. He thinks skill wins and now is telling you he believes in his losing team construction. So he added Ritchie ( awesome signing) Gabriel great signing if he plays 4 th line punisher role. Waste of time getting a physically punishing players if he doesn’t play. Bunting might be good.
Fans on here knew years ago this team was to soft and Dubas kept putting soft teams together. Kept loosing and kept doing it over and over. That has nothing to do with how he ranks with the worst and speaks to his failures in his years.
He’s a failure and repeated mistakes over and over until this year he brings in toughness. If he fails again he’s gone. Unfortunately M.Rielly will likely be gone with him because he is about win to keep his job and not asset retention. I really don’t like having a G.M trying to win at all costs on his last kick at the can around. He should have been fired before he does the damage this year. He won’t sign Rielly and won’t trade him will be last fatal flaw likely. We’ll lose Rielly for nothing like many more he’s squandered in win now mode. He’s a failure in a large way. He’s got Kerfoot and Kampf getting $5,000,000 between them trying to do what Kadri done for $4,500,000. Kadri is better than both put together. Kadri was liked by his teammates too. I’d argue Matthews dropping his pants at a lady to be much worst. Yeah lots of nonsense from this guy who b,ew our cap up and destroyed the team

 

[Bomber0104]

Advancing no further than a team fresh off finishing last place in the entire NHL (playing the eventual Cup winning Caps) ?!

Yeah, he's failed.

Spectacularly.

Anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves at this point.

 

[Bomber0104]

Just my opinion of course, but I'm quite sure that Dubas is league-wide, at this point, seen as a complete joke/fraud that completely botched one of the biggest up-and-coming teams in the leauge and the only GM's that answer Dubas' calls are the ones that maybe think they can fleece him in a trade.

 

[Ciao]

Years of soft teams that were skill oriented. He’s had more talent on these teams than most Leaf G.M’s going back to the 70’s. He thinks skill wins and now is telling you he believes in his losing team construction. So he added Ritchie ( awesome signing) Gabriel great signing if he plays 4 th line punisher role. Waste of time getting a physically punishing players if he doesn’t play. Bunting might be good.
Fans on here knew years ago this team was to soft and Dubas kept putting soft teams together. Kept loosing and kept doing it over and over. That has nothing to do with how he ranks with the worst and speaks to his failures in his years.
He’s a failure and repeated mistakes over and over until this year he brings in toughness. If he fails again he’s gone. Unfortunately M.Rielly will likely be gone with him because he is about win to keep his job and not asset retention. I really don’t like having a G.M trying to win at all costs on his last kick at the can around. He should have been fired before he does the damage this year. He won’t sign Rielly and won’t trade him will be last fatal flaw likely. We’ll lose Rielly for nothing like many more he’s squandered in win now mode. He’s a failure in a large way. He’s got Kerfoot and Kampf getting $5,000,000 between them trying to do what Kadri done for $4,500,000. Kadri is better than both put together. Kadri was liked by his teammates too. I’d argue Matthews dropping his pants at a lady to be much worst. Yeah lots of nonsense from this guy who b,ew our cap up and destroyed the team

Yeah, I sure loved those days when the Leafs had so little skill that Alan McCauley was their first-line centre while Mats Sundin was injured. How about the Bozak years when he was the lead dog in the middle of the ice? Man, I wish the Leafs had less talent and more grit now! That would show them, eh?

Where's John Brophy and Gord Stellick when you need them? Howsabout another Russ Courtnall for John Kordic dealeo? Now that goof Dubas is p***yfooting with assholes like Mitch Marner and John Tavares! Fifth highest scorer -- who needs that shit! For God's sake, he can't run an NHL team! He even let Matt Martin go! Just shows ya what he knows about hockey, huh?

For Pete's sake.

 

[PromisedLand]

Just my opinion of course, but I'm quite sure that Dubas is league-wide, at this point, seen as a complete joke/fraud that completely botched one of the biggest up-and-coming teams in the leauge and the only GM's that answer Dubas' calls are the ones that maybe think they can fleece him in a trade.

Dubas' resume so far:

• Came as a GM in the most enviable position that any GM would give an arm and a leg to be in: team on the rise, plenty of cap space, assets
• Within a matter of few years: team decline, no cap space, UFAs walking , assets declining, 1st rounders out the door
• Taken to the woodshed by Nylander, Marner, Matthews
• Zamboni driver game
• hires a rookie coach-> Team shutout by CBJ, Blown series lead against Montreal
• Montreal colours on CN tower (can't remember shit like this under any past GM)
• Tells media he has some intergalactic computer that has special analytics (remember his Ceci comments?)
• Blames fans for calling out marner (called them stupid)
• No cap left to get quality depth on offense or defense with Rielly about to walk as UFA (add another UFA walking)
• Refuses picks for Hyman when Hyman was going to walk anyway... (how dumb was it to even allow Hyman to talk to Oilers without discussing any draft picks before hand)
• Trades a 1st rounder + 4th for retention because team has no cap space for an injured player at the TDL (Foligno was injured: well known fact now)
• Trades further picks for players not used -> Rittich, Hutton, Rielly Nash
• Sparks fiasco
• the list can continue....

If I wasn't a Leafs fan I would find it absolutely hilarious that a GM like him is still employed by the team

 

[hotpaws]

They were talking about having 3 elite offensive talents on ELC, which you just clearly stated they weren't all on for any year that Dubas was GM.

So you took the point of my post, completely disregarded it, and then stated nonsense, congrats.

maybe you can explain what you meant when you said Lou “wasted their elc’s” if it wasn’t that you expected him to win the cup in the two years following our tank season