Has Cale Makar already surpassed a prime Erik Karlsson in just his first 4 years?

[viper0220]

All three of those players have a proven track record.

Go and check Makar's track record.

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs have great players every single season. Why can’t they ever win a single round?

People hold the individual hostage for the team results waaaay too often on this site.

Wouldn’t your point make the case that great players on great teams winning is no automatic and shouldn’t be down rated then?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

A huge part of comparing player levels is sustainably. Karlsson sustained his high level of play beyond years he didn’t win awards. Makar simply doesn’t have the body of work yet to compare to prime Karlsson. Give it time and he likely will, but this is extremely premature.

What more is Makar suppose to do in only his first 3 seasons. I mean if we're talking about comparing to Orr or Lidstrom, sure. But we're not. Karlsson's career is not worthy of that much mysticism.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Wouldn’t your point make the case that great players on great teams winning is no automatic and shouldn’t be down rated then?

It’s the number of great players. Tampa and Colorado have both had a lot of solid players throughout the lineup and weren’t just top-heavy or one-dimensional.

Sure, Karlsson played with some greats in Ottawa, but none of their teams were ever nearly as deep as these two finalists were,

What more is Makar suppose to do in only his first 3 seasons. I mean if we're talking about comparing to Orr or Lidstrom, sure. But we're not. Karlsson's career is not worthy of that much mysticism.

Dominate at a level Karlsson did for as long as he did. EK wasn’t great for just 3 years.

 

[binop7]

for a brief time he was, but then injury took over.


wrong.

No he was never the best player in the world.

 

[MBrodeur]

The weak team argument can only be stretched so far. "Wayne Gretzky and Dale Hawerchuk switched positions in 1981 the whole landscape of 80s hockey would have been very different." Maybe, but great players on great teams is kind of the whole point of team sports.

Maybe you responded to the wrong comment. The premise of the argument I responded to was that one player won the cup and the other one didnt.

Is Lehkonen better than McDavid because he won the cup? You can argue Makar is better than EK but not by just saying "because he won the cup" and nothing else.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Yes, he has.

 

[kerrabria]

It's debatable, but I'd take Makar. Erik Karlsson's last great year was at age 26. I think Makar will have blown Karlsson out of the water three years from now.

Calder and All-Rookie
1x Cup
1x Smythe
1x Norris
2x Norris Finalist
3x Norris Top 10 Finish
1x Hart Top 10 Finish
2x All-Star
1x Hobey Baker
1x WJC Gold

2x Norris
4x Norris Finalist
5x Norris Top 10 Finish
4x Hart Top 10 Finish
4x All-Star
1x Olympic Silver
1x Olympic Best Defenseman
2x WJC Best Defenseman

 

[Stephen]

Maybe you responded to the wrong comment. The premise of the argument I responded to was that one player won the cup and the other one didnt.

Is Lehkonen better than McDavid because he won the cup? You can argue Makar is better than EK but not by just saying "because he won the cup" and nothing else.

Do you see an accomplishment gap as wide as McDavid and Lehkonen between Makar and Karlsson, aside from the championship, that would make this comparison relevant?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

It’s the number of great players. Tampa and Colorado have both had a lot of solid players throughout the lineup and weren’t just top-heavy or one-dimensional.

Sure, Karlsson played with some greats in Ottawa, but none of their teams were ever nearly as deep as these two finalists were,


Dominate at a level Karlsson did for as long as he did. EK wasn’t great for just 3 years.

I mean you are asking Makar to do the impossible since he's only been in the league for 3 years yet excuse Karlsson just because his team isn't as good.

 

[wetcoast]

He won his Smythe because of what he did in the first three rounds. He was rather disappointing in the finals. Either way it doesn’t really change anything.

Disappointing to expectations maybe but a 6-3-4-7 minus 4 27 MPG line certainly isn't disappointing in context.

 

[MBrodeur]

Do you see an accomplishment gap as wide as McDavid and Lehkonen between Makar and Karlsson, aside from the championship, that would make this comparison relevant?

How do you read a comment and misinterpret it so dramatically?

 

[Crossfire Hurricane]

I mean you are asking Makar to do the impossible since he's only been in the league for 3 years yet excuse Karlsson just because his team isn't as good.

The most impressive thing a player can do is be really good on a mediocre team.

 

[AvsFan29]

The most impressive thing a player can do is be really good on a mediocre team.

The most impressive thing a player can do is be the best player on a top team and lead them to success

 

[TheBeard]

Disappointing to expectations maybe but a 6-3-4-7 minus 4 27 MPG line certainly isn't disappointing in context.

By the line only no, but watching it wasn't a good performance and also misleading. IE the two assists in the 6-2 drubbing were merely just empty passes in an already blow out. The only game I found him to be dominant really was the game 6 loss. It's also hard to condone going -4 in a series where you outscored the opposition by 5.

I mean you are asking Makar to do the impossible since he's only been in the league for 3 years yet excuse Karlsson just because his team isn't as good.

It's not an excuse, but it's definitely something that needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I mean you are asking Makar to do the impossible since he's only been in the league for 3 years yet excuse Karlsson just because his team isn't as good.

I think it’s rather impossible to try and compare these two at these stages of their careers, yes. Especially not knowing Makar’s future yet. Cheechoo averaged over 40 goals a year during a 3 year stretch that started at the end of the dead puck era, then he got hurt and never played well again for various health reasons. Makar hasn’t sustained his level of play long enough to be compared to prime Karlsson yet. Add the fact it isn’t fair to Karlsson since most here are likely judging him based on the last few years of recently versus his actual prime. Karlsson did out score him when they beat the Avs a few years ago in 7, but no one remembers now lol.

 

[Crossfire Hurricane]

The most impressive thing a player can do is be the best player on a top team and lead them to success

You may have missed the sarcasm.

 

[Stephen]

How do you read a comment and misinterpret it so dramatically?

When you bring up an absurdly inappropriate comparison like Lekhonen and McDavid as an analogy for Karlsson and Makar, it’s very difficult not to react with incredulity.

 

[hohosaregood]

Makar is lagging behind in the career altering injuries category. I don't think he'll ever be stupid enough to reach the same numbers as Karlsson

 

[Ararana]

yes.

 

[MBrodeur]

When you bring up an absurdly inappropriate comparison like Lekhonen and McDavid as an analogy for Karlsson and Makar, it’s very difficult not to react with incredulity.

I used Lehkonen and McDavid to show you how absurd it is to use "player X won the cup, the other one didn't" as the ONLY argument for who's better.

I'm not sure if you're misinterpreting everything on purpose . Makar winning the cup is definitely a plus, but it's not like he would've automatically been a worse player if he hadn't won it yet.

This has been fun.

 

[Stephen]

I used Lehkonen and McDavid to show you how absurd it is to use "player X won the cup, the other one didn't" as the ONLY argument for who's better.

I'm not sure if you're misinterpreting everything on purpose . Makar winning the cup is definitely a plus, but it's not like he would've automatically been a worse player if he hadn't won it yet.

This has been fun.

Well, if Makar is already better than Karlsson in non cup winning ways and also has a cup win under his belt, your extreme example isn't going to be very helpful, is it?

 

[Slurpeelover27]

The most impressive thing a player can do is be really good on a mediocre team.

Dumbest thing ever. But I guess that’s one of the best arguments you can make to try and say EK was better.

 

[MBrodeur]

Well, if Makar is already better than Karlsson in non cup winning ways and also has a cup win under his belt, your extreme example isn't going to be very helpful, is it?

I'm not stating an opinion on who's better. I feel like if I said regular balloons can be yellow you would be like "so you're saying water balloons can't be red!?" that's absurd!"

 

[avsfan9]

Good argument. I don’t know why I allow myself to get baited into these subjective debates with fanatics. That’s on me.


He also won 8 Norris Trophies in a row.

He also played against a lot of shit! He was one of the leagues best players ever in a league full of alot less talent.