Hartman fined for intentionally high sticking Perfetti

[Ted Hoffman]

If the Jets scrubs injured Thomas twice in less than a year, I bet you'd think different...

Interesting that you know how someone else thinks, without actually being that person.

 

[Flair Hay]

"Routine cross check" shouldn't even be a thing since Cross checking is illegal.
There is a reason so many players have had their backs destroyed in this league. Cross checking is a big portion of that and needs to be eliminated from the game.

You may be right but the way things are in the league right now, as long as it's not too hard it doesn't get called.

For what it's worth Hartman def has that POS mentality but I'd take him on the Jets any day.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Mixed feelings about this. He deserves the fine, obviously. But I don’t love using the mics in this manner. The point of mic’ing up a player is to get a glimpse into the raw emotion of the game at ice level, not to build evidence for DOPS cases.

It's a bit like saying "look, we only had the cameras at the festival to show what a good time everyone was having" and they catch some crime being committed and saying, "well, we shouldn't use that footage in the prosecution of the crime because that's not what the cameras where there for." No, that obviously wasn't the intent [nor should it be] - but if it inadvertently catches shit that shouldn't happen, that absolutely should get used in helping determine punishment.

 

[TaLoN]

You may be right but the way things are in the league right now, as long as it's not too hard it doesn't get called.

With that as a standard, it begs for them to eventually get too hard and injure players. You can't "see" how hard they are very well since it's by it's very nature a sheltered and leveraged act.

You don't need much strength to cause a lot of damage since it is clearly done with leverage at a very narrow point against one of the most vulnerable parts of the human body... the lower back.

 

[Atoyot]

Best thing Jets can do is just let this go and keep going about their business.

They can play just as tough as the wild, they can play dirty, and they are better than them. No sense getting into this eye for an eye situation with them again.

It already led to Hartman taking out Ehlers on a dirty hit last year and him not being available games 1-4 vs Vegas.

We don't have anything to prove to these dudes. Just keep playing aggressive and on the edge like any good team would. This shot for shot stuff after the Kaprizov injury could have cpst both teams even more.



I kind of agree with Wild fans here. Even if it's accidental, you need to do something more than just square off between two guys not involved. Especially when it's the same team two years in a row.

Both teams fans calling each other dirty when fact is we are both chippy and bring out the worst in each other.

I found it really strange when that poll came out recently that was every fan bases 3 most hated rival fan bases and the Jets and the Wild didn't have each other on their lists. When they play each other it's the dirtiest I ever see the Jets play and I'm sure Minnesota steps it up in that department too.

It's a bit like saying "look, we only had the cameras at the festival to show what a good time everyone was having" and they catch some crime being committed and saying, "well, we shouldn't use that footage in the prosecution of the crime because that's not what the cameras where there for." No, that obviously wasn't the intent [nor should it be] - but if it inadvertently catches shit that shouldn't happen, that absolutely should get used in helping determine punishment.

It'll factor in for his next punishment.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

It'll factor in for his next punishment.

And I'll expand on it with this: while it will factor into his next punishment provided he does something in the next 18 months that's considered suspension-worthy and results in missed games, that doesn't guarantee that the next thing he does that's suspension-worthy is punished, much less that it results in a punishment of missing games.

 

[TS Quint]

he should have yelled "oh sorry bro my bad totally didn't mean to do that"
have to assume everyone is mic'd up.

he's a rat. not as bad as some, not as dangerous as some, not as prolific as some, but a rat none-the-less.

Players are told who has the mic. Hartman is a full on idiot.

 

[TaLoN]

It's a bit like saying "look, we only had the cameras at the festival to show what a good time everyone was having" and they catch some crime being committed and saying, "well, we shouldn't use that footage in the prosecution of the crime because that's not what the cameras where there for." No, that obviously wasn't the intent [nor should it be] - but if it inadvertently catches shit that shouldn't happen, that absolutely should get used in helping determine punishment.

Video has a different legal standing than audio because it's easier to verify both the act and the individual and confirm the veracity of said video.
Audio is much easier to manipulate and speech is protected to the point where many states require consent from both individuals in an audio recording conversation to be admissible in court.

Since this is about legality, it comes down to the legal standing of audio recordings and thus the much more difficult standard to get the audio recording to clear the legal hurdles to be admissible.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's a bit like saying "look, we only had the cameras at the festival to show what a good time everyone was having" and they catch some crime being committed and saying, "well, we shouldn't use that footage in the prosecution of the crime because that's not what the cameras where there for." No, that obviously wasn't the intent [nor should it be] - but if it inadvertently catches shit that shouldn't happen, that absolutely should get used in helping determine punishment.

The problem in this case, which makes it different than a festival situation, is that players (employees) accept the mics as a way of adding value to the product. But they don’t have to do that, and using it to collect evidence in order to fine them is a huge deterrent to their accepting them.

 

[Atoyot]

I'd think so, even if it's at a subconscious level. Like it wouldn't be anything obvious, an extra game tacked onto a suspension.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I'd think so, even if it's at a subconscious level. Like it wouldn't be anything obvious, an extra game tacked onto a suspension.

I made an edit to my post while you were responding, which really answers this.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The problem in this case, which makes it different than a festival situation, is that players (employees) accept the mics as a way of adding value to the product. But they don’t have to do that, and using it to collect evidence in order to fine them is a huge deterrent to their accepting them.

Doesn't matter. Your point might have more validity if Hartman had been wearing the mic - but, he wasn't. Really, as TS Quint pointed out above, it's worse because all the players know who's wearing a mic before the game starts so Hartman had to know his comments Perfetti could [would] be picked up, unless he's a total moron. [Which, I guess there's potential evidence for that.] There's no ability to claim well, I didn't know it might be picked up on a mic.

Video has a different legal standing than audio because it's easier to verify both the act and the individual and confirm the veracity of said video.

I want to stop right here and offer thoughts, but .... no, I'm going to skip past it, because I'll get to those thoughts shortly.

Audio is much easier to manipulate and speech is protected to the point where many states require consent from both individuals in an audio recording conversation to be admissible in court.

Yeah, I'm sure the audio was manipulated to create the impression Hartman mouthed off at Perfetti after the intentional high stick. The video was probably manipulated, too, using AI. How silly of the rest of us to not have caught on to this.

Since this is about legality, it comes down to the legal standing of audio recordings and thus the much more difficult standard to get the audio recording to clear the legal hurdles to be admissible.

When someone wants to argue legality of using audio vs. video for levying discipline under a Collective Bargaining Agreement between a group of players and a group of owners, where Article 18.2(e) of that Collective Bargaining Agreement allows "such other factors as may be appropriate in the circumstances" to be included in deciding such supplementary discipline, and where the use of audio evidence is not expressly prohibited in the determination of such discipline, and such evidence could reasonably be presented under 18.4(a)(v) and/or the procedures outlined in 18-A.3 would still not preclude the use of audio evidence [provided the procedures outlined in 18-A.3 are followed], ... well, that's where I bow out. It's also where others need to take a step back and admit "you know what, I'm just throwing shit against a wall and seeing if any of it will stick."

Because if audio wasn't allowed for imposing discipline, Sean Avery wouldn't have been parked by the league for 6 games for derogatory remarks caught on both video and audio - WHICH COULD HAVE ALL BEEN FAKED, TOO! - after a morning skate. It would been whining and complaining and Bettman would have borrowed Jay Leno to say well, whadaya gonna do, these things happen, I really wannado something but I can't, I'm just tryintado my job, Sean's a really nice guy, cut him some slack, can't we all just get along, hey let me try this lame joke on you guys, wanna go to my garage and see the new old car I just bought?

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

I heard that Hartman cannot read.

 

[jetsforever]

No point in escalating any further IMO but it was still ridiculous to do that dirty move and then admit it

 

[TaLoN]

Yeah, I'm sure the audio was manipulated to create the impression Hartman mouthed off at Perfetti after the intentional high stick. The video was probably manipulated, too, using AI. How silly of the rest of us to not have caught on to this.

I never said it was. I was talking about the much higher standard of admissibility of audio alone, which denies the use of most recorded conversations. I made no reference to anything about the audio here directly.

 

[Atoyot]

No point in escalating any further IMO but it was still ridiculous to do that dirty move and then admit it

Hartman:

 

[ffh]

Perfetti.... " he said it respectfully"
On Hartman telling him he was going to cheap shot him.
Might be the best shot of the b2b.

 

[SCP Guy]

As long as Hartman is man enough to answer for it next game when when of our non top 6 players asks him to dance all good…. As that is the “code” he was going by right?

 

[aqsw]

Go after the guy that you want. Punk ass!

 

[Atoyot]

As long as Hartman is man enough to answer for it next game when when of our non top 6 players asks him to dance all good…. As that is the “code” he was going by right?

I don't think that allowing a player to punch your helmet a few times is an equal transaction to hitting a player in the face on purpose with your stick. Perfetti needed a bunch of stitches and that was the best case scenario for what Hartman did. Could have lost teeth, could have taken it in the eye. It was an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing to do.

To be clear, fighting is not and has never been a deterrent for anything.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Don't like it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

if you wear a mic you're a narc.

And snitches definitely do get stitches.

Jets forward Kyle Connor wins Lady Byng Trophy | Winnipeg Jets

Connor was named on 181 of the 195 ballots cast, including 122 first-place selections

www.nhl.com

I’m sure the wild have also recently won an award for best sportsmanship in the league?

Not a winner, so I'm sure it doesn't count, but Spurgeon has been a finalist in 2 out of the last 3 years.

But it's all meaningless anyway, so whatever.

 

[uncleben]

How the DoPS has not gotten fed up and thrown the book at him is beyond me.

This is Hartman's FOURTH suspension in a row as a repeat offender, meaning he had been fined in the 12 months prior to the new fine.

1. May 13, 2021 Ryan Hartman Dangerous trip against Sammy Blais $5,000.00
2. November 21, 2021 Ryan Hartman Slew-footing Ross Colton $4,250.00 (Repeat offender)
3. April 12, 2022 Ryan Hartman Unsportsmanlike conduct against Evander Kane $4,250.00 (Repeat offender)
4. March 7, 2023 Ryan Hartman Slashing Rasmus Andersson $4,594.59 (Repeat offender)
5. December 31, 2023 Ryan Hartman High-sticking Cole Perfetti $4,427.08 (Repeat offender)



I have never seen a player chain 5 fines in a row like that before.



On top of that, in that same timeframe, i.e. in the middle of this fine-chain, he chained two suspensions together (had been suspended in the 18 months prior)!

1. April 11, 2023 Ryan Hartman Interference against Nikolaj Ehlers 1 game $9,189.19
2. November 26, 2023 Ryan Hartman Tripping Alex DeBrincat 2 games $41,463.41 (Repeat offender)



And before all this, he already had one suspension and one fine on his record (from the same season!)

October 24, 2017 Ryan Hartman Slashing Brayden McNabb $2,320.79
April 18, 2018 Ryan Hartman Illegal check to the head of Carl Soderberg 1 playoff game

• He has received supplemental discipline 9 times in his career
  • 6 fines
  • 3 suspensions
• He has been identified as a repeat offender 5 times in his career
  • 4 fines
  • 1 suspension
• He has received supplemental discipline in 5 of his 10* NHL seasons
  • 2014-15 No (*only 5 GP)
  • 2015-16 No (*only 3 GP)
  • 2016-17 No
  • 2017-18 Yes
  • 2018-19 No
  • 2019-20 No
  • 2020-21 Yes
  • 2021-22 Yes
  • 2022-23 Yes
  • 2023-24 Yes
• He has received supplemental discipline multiple times in the same season 4 times(!)
  • 2017–18 (1 fine, 1 suspension)
  • 2021–22 (2 fines)
  • 2022–23 (1 fine, 1 suspension)
  • 2023–24 (1 fine, 1 suspension)
  • Every season he has gotten in trouble, he did it again the same season, except once (2020–21)
• He has received supplemental discipline 4 times this past calendar year alone
  • March 7, 2023 fine
  • April 11, 2023 suspension
  • November 26, 2023 suspension
  • December 31, 2023 fine

• He has lost $75,495.06 from disciplinary actions in his career, out of $9,943,945 career earnings
  • $24,842.46 from fines
  • $50,652.60 from suspensions
• He has sat out 4 games from disciplinary actions in his career

 

[Kshahdoo]

Interesting that you know how someone else thinks, without actually being that person.

It's not about all people, but I know exactly how HF users think in a case like this. Because I've read such things a few hundred times at the forums already... or rather a few thousand.

 

[Romang67]

This is Hartman's FOURTH suspension in a row as a repeat offender, meaning he had been fined in the 12 months prior to the new fine.

...

It's a disgrace. Even with the assumption that they couldn't use the audio to determine if the high stick was premeditated,

WHY

DOES

THIS

SCUMBAG

GET

THE

BENEFIT

OF

DOUBT?