Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.

[613Leafer]

MacKinnon has the highest PPG and has a relatively weak supporting cast (aside from Rantanen). I'd give it to him at the moment.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I am biased for MacKinnon because the Avs would be next to the Sabres without him this season, but anyone outside of Taylor Hall or Nathan MacKinnon receiving votes just means this is the Art Ross v2 trophy and not the MVP.

 

[PensandCaps]

MacKinnon has the highest PPG and has a relatively weak supporting cast (aside from Rantanen). I'd give it to him at the moment.

I'd say he has the best linemates. So not really a weak supporting cast....Landy and Rantanen are top line talents.

 

[Ivan13]

Bum a year ago, top line talent this season. Everything to push a narrative.

 

[ecemleafs]

All situations P/60 is one of the worst stats I've ever seen as an argument. It's going to completely deflate the production of players who PK.

If you're going to use P/60 use it right and select 5V5.

1. Mackinnon
2. Marchand
3. Barzal
4. Stone
5. Marchessault
6. McDavid
7. Kucherov
8. Spooner
9. Matthews
10. Staal

good to see spooner in the Hart race.

 

[cgf]

How about EV points/60? Or just EV point totals. Who are the top 5?

I think coaching has a bigger effect on PP numbers than at EV. PP is a lot about set plays, set zone entries, etc. Quite specific tactics. A great PP coach I think can have a big influential effect on making a dangerous PP. Not to mention needing to have certain players who's skills fit the more rigid formation of play on a PP, such as an effective Dman PP QB, among other players with certain skills that allow a PP to thrive: if you don't have all the pieces the PP likely wont thrive, no matter if there's a superstar on the ice or not. EV is much more nuanced, complex and just plain 'messy' or chaotic, for lack of better terms. Less rigid, let's say; therefore requiring a player of greater skill and ability to be able to produce points. That's my assertion, anyway. Take it or leave it, I suppose.

EDIT: Top 5 EV point producers (totals, not per/60):
1. McDavid: 59 points
2. Kucherov: 52
3. Marchessault: 52
4/5. Gaudreau: 50
4/5. Mackinnon: 50

Interesting. McDavid is outclassing everyone at producing at EV. Odd this was left out. Don't suppose there's any agenda or anything.

Eh. The avs PP is running at over 20% with MacKinnon and was at 7% without him. I'd say it's pretty clear that he is the driving factor of the avs PP, not set plays, set zone entries, etc. So why should we ignore his production there?

 

[DearDiary]

MacKinnon has the highest PPG and has a relatively weak supporting cast (aside from Rantanen). I'd give it to him at the moment.

MacKinnon has way better linemates than McDavid and Malkin

 

[SaltySkywalker]

MacKinnon has way better linemates than McDavid and Malkin

LOLOL sure...Kessel, Crosby, draistl... a sophomore and a powerforward?

 

[DearDiary]

LOLOL sure...Kessel, Crosby, draistl... a sophomore and a powerforward?

Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
2 good forecheckers with no playmaking ability.

Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen
One of the best powerforwards and a skilled young player

 

[Ncit3]

Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist
2 good forecheckers with no playmaking ability.

Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen
One of the best powerforwards and a skilled young player

Please explain to me why a guy leading his teams scoring by less than 10 points and has 2 other guys over a PPG should be in the running for the Hart? How is Malkin more valuable than Hall and MacKinnon? At the end of the day that is the biggest question.

 

[featherhawk]

no race for the Hart IMO.

its Mackinnon without question

Tampa would be doing just fine without Kucherov
Pitt would be doing alright without Malkin.

Colorado on the other hand would be in the basement with or below the hawks without MacKinnon

 

[cgf]

I gotta give it to MacKinnon.

I will never not rep this username

 

[cgf]

I am biased for MacKinnon because the Avs would be next to the Sabres without him this season, but anyone outside of Taylor Hall or Nathan MacKinnon receiving votes just means this is the Art Ross v2 trophy and not the MVP.

There's a difference between most valuable to his team & most spectacular in the league. The Hart is somewhere in between those two, which is why MacK won't get any votes if the avs don't make the playoffs

Value to their team is more of a disqualifier than the basis for judgement. That's why not making the playoffs can knock a player out of contention; but unless they deserve it for other reasons, making the playoffs can't win it for a player.

I'd say he has the best linemates. So not really a weak supporting cast....Landy and Rantanen are top line talents.

They are but their production has hit new heights because of MacKinnon and the team can only score when he's there to lead the way. Without him those top line talents go from elite top line #s to middle of the road top line player #s. The team scores 1.3 goals a game less without him and the PP drops 13%. This isn't a competent offensive team without MacKinnon making it all happen and making life easier on everybody else. With him the PP works, the top line delivers, and the secondary scoring gets easy enough matchups to contribute. Take him out and that all stops happening.

So though Mikko is a young stud in the making, he can't drive that line without MacK yet, and Landy certainly can't.

MacKinnon has way better linemates than McDavid and Malkin

Linemates, maybe, though Leon is the best linemate any of this trio have. But definitely not team-mates. Teams focus their whole game plan on MacKinnon & MacKinnon alone. That's why the other lines can only score when MacK's there to draw all of the attention.

 

[AvroArrow]

Between MacKinnon and Hall for me. The pens are still great without Malkin, Tampa is still a legit contender without Kucherov.

Avs and Devils would be nowhere near where they are without MacKinnon/Hall. If the trophy is given to the player judged to be the most valuable to his team, it has to be either MacKinnon/Hall (Edge to MacKinnon imo)

 

[Goleafsgo95]

I don't think all-situation centers get enough consideration in the Hart race. Is a high scoring winger like Kucherov really more valuable than a horse centerman like Bergeron or Kopitar?

Dmen also don't get enough love.

 

[AvroArrow]

I still dont understand how the "Hart Trophy race truly only boils down to four players " includes Hall but not Kopitar

because it judges the player most valuable to his team, not necessarily the best player. The kings without Kopitar are a FAR better team than the Devils without Hall.

 

[Bernify]

How is the Hart even in question? The Avalanche were beyond horrible last year, and if they make the playoffs, MacKinnon is the reason. He's the MVP

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I've been saying Kucherov the whole time, but his pts lead isn't that big anymore. If the Avs make the playoffs it has to be MacK. Kucherov, Ovechkin, Hall and probably Malkin round out the top 5.

For the lindsay keep MacK, Kucherov, Ovechkin and Malkin in the top 5 and probably replace Hall with McDavid (Hall not being top 10 in pts will really hurt him in voting for both trophies).

 

[Paul4587]

I really don't get why people think pts/60 has any relevance when discussing high end offensive players.

I don’t get why it’s bought up so much either. Some guys when given more ice time end up wearing down and having issues with injuries and end up being less productive. It’s an ok tool when looking at a third line player and trying to project it he would benefit from a few more minutes a night but when looking at guys already playing 18 minutes or more, chances are the extra ice time isn’t going to lead to more production. Unless it’s extra PP time.

 

[TopT]

because it judges the player most valuable to his team, not necessarily the best player. The kings without Kopitar are a FAR better team than the Devils without Hall.

really ? you should check Kopi points VS other Kings

 

[Empoleon8771]

I hate how people make such a big deal about how good of a team a player is on with Hart voting. It has a small impact, but people who think it makes the largest impact are just crazy. If the award is actually somewhat team based, it's a garbage award. Players on bad teams shouldn't get an advantage on players on good teams just because they have a weaker supporting cast.

That's not saying MacKinnon can't win, but I'd be shocked if Kucherov wouldn't win it if it was awarded today. I'd say MacKinnon will most likely come in 2nd or 3rd, depending on what Malkin does for the rest of the year.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I will never not rep this username

Jets fan bud, I just had the opportunity and took my chance. What I love about the username is I didn't think people would like it so much.

It was that or Pickle Rick DiPietro.

 

[Meeqs]

The only 2 players who should win Hart at this point are Hall or Mackinnon sans something crazy happening

 

[cgf]

Jets fan bud, I just had the opportunity and took my chance. What I love about the username is I didn't think people would like it so much.

It was that or Pickle Rick DiPietro.

Well firstly it's just a great dad-joke which is always a great place to start, and secondly, Cale has just kept impressing since getting drafted 4th overall; so it really was perfectly timed

...even if I'm pretty sure that we'll both hate one another's teams by the end of the 2020s

 

[DFC]

I think it's gonna be MacKinnon. So many guys are putting up big points for TB.