Value of: Hart, Konecny, Provorov, Sanheim, Laughton, Couturier

[kcunac]

11OV, OEL, Myers for Sanheim, Hayes.

Salary is similar. OEL and Myers are elite tank commanders and the OEL buyout won't be that bad once PHI is ready to compete.

11OV is a very solid piece for the rebuild and Myers @ 50% could get PHI a decent pick at the deadline.

Or perhaps 11OV, Myers for Sanheim + but not sure what the plus would be.

 

[1865]

11OV, OEL, Myers for Sanheim, Hayes.

Salary is similar. OEL and Myers are elite tank commanders and the OEL buyout won't be that bad once PHI is ready to compete.

11OV is a very solid piece for the rebuild and Myers @ 50% could get PHI a decent pick at the deadline.

Or perhaps 11OV, Myers for Sanheim + but not sure what the plus would be.

Dropping the contracts for OEL and Myers is worth the 11th on its own. You're getting two very decent pieces on top too, it's just not enough for the Flyers to agree to it.

Myers at 50% ain't getting us much, let's be honest.

Moving 24 year old Hart? wth for?

There's every chance it'll be his decision. He's 24 now, he's going to be at least 27 when we're any good and who knows how long his career will last? Goalies break these days.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Moving 24 year old Hart? wth for?

So he doesn't get John Gibson'd

 

[Baksfamous112]

I would give Florida first round pick for Hart

 

[JRichard]

But the context of the comment was ‘this is a good draft year, best to load up on picks’. Your thought was that you can’t tell for 5 years. So the conclusion is you don’t target firsts because you won’t know for 5 years. Which is the case for almost all draft picks.

We’re just not on same page. I mean i dont know if its a good year.
Nothing to do with liking- not liking 1sts.
Just not « loading » on em this year BECAUSE its a good draft. Thats all.

I would give Florida first round pick for Hart

Of course.
Tells me you dont like him that much.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

I know it’s unlikely that a trade happens between the 2 teams, but what about Penguins 14OA for Provorov?

 

[JRichard]

I know it’s unlikely that a trade happens between the 2 teams, but what about Penguins 14OA for Provorov?

Best offer yet. Would consider it especially if a top d like Reinbacher, Pelikka is still there. Saving 6 mil, helping rebuild.

 

[TheKingPin]

We’re just not on same page. I mean i dont know if its a good year.
Nothing to do with liking- not liking 1sts.
Just not « loading » on em this year BECAUSE its a good draft. Thats all.


Of course.
Tells me you dont like him that much.

Yea as a GM I would target this year ahead of time to accumulate picks. Especially given the Flyers’ situation.

In general, I would be looking to get 1sts by trading assets and cap space as part of a rebuild.

 

[Rebels57]

Would Philly be Interested in a Hockey deal for DeBrincat? Not a prospect or pick but may still fit the age group to a degree

I think the Sens would be interested all 4 of Konecny Laughton Couturier and Hart

Couturier and Giroux are dynamite together, but would you really want to take a risk on a player with a contract like his that missed the last season and a half due to back injuries? Right now, I can't see any team touching Couturier until he proves he can stay healthy for a full season or even two. Konecny to Ottawa makes a lot of sense though.

Flames would probably have interest in Konecny. 16th overall for Konecny?

Not enough for a PPG winger in their prime on a good contract.

16th overall is a start but there would need to be a good prospect added as well.

I know it’s unlikely that a trade happens between the 2 teams, but what about Penguins 14OA for Provorov?

Done.

 

[Sens Vader]

Couturier and Giroux are dynamite together, but would you really want to take a risk on a player with a contract like his that missed the last season and a half due to back injuries? Right now, I can't see any team touching Couturier until he proves he can stay healthy for a full season or even two. Konecny to Ottawa makes a lot of sense though.



Not enough for a PPG winger in their prime on a good contract.

16th overall is a start but there would need to be a good prospect added as well.



Done.

Yeah I don't know, I guess it would depend on medical's but it is risky. Was it the same back injury?

Would Philly be interested in trading Konecny for Debrincat? I think we could also see the Sens trade Debrincat for draft picks and then flip some for a player like Konecny + adding some prospects on our side.

 

[Rebels57]

Yeah I don't know, I guess it would depend on medical's but it is risky. Was it the same back injury?

Would Philly be interested in trading Konecny for Debrincat? I think we could also see the Sens trade Debrincat for draft picks and then flip some for a player like Konecny + adding some prospects on our side.

He had two back surgeries in a period of about 9 months.

I think Konecnys value is a bit higher right now. If we trade Konecny I would think it would be for a Futures heavy return.

 

[dirtydanglez]

if philly sold they'd do really well

 

[Rich Nixon]

if philly sold they'd do really well

I'm not entirely sure about that, because they've severely damaged or degraded much of what they have to sell.

In Provorov's case, he's been disgruntled and they've held onto him for too long, so he's put out quite a bit of half-assed play that doesn't exactly bolster his value. Not sure how his Pride incident earlier in the year plays for GMs in certain markets, but I don't think the added attention he brought upon himself is a positive in the NO DISTRACTIONS league.

Similar with Hayes, who just blatantly plays like it's a chore. He was already overpaid, but I don't think an NHL scout who saw him at any point after January this season would have anything nice to say. Not only was he bad, Tortorella moved him to wing and buried him on the 3rd line, which hurts your ability to sell him as a center in a weak center market.

Couturier and Atkinson, just straight up medical incompetence led to lost seasons and turned them into total question marks. Not to mention Couturier is signed for like 7 more years after this.

Sanheim they signed to an 8-year, expensive extension and then preceded to run hm out there with nightmare partners like Ristolainen and DeAngelo all season. He seemed to struggle to understand what Tortorella wanted from him (happens to a lot of guys) and Torts even health scratched him out of a hometown game with his family in attendance. His confidence is pretty torn up and he just played an entire season well below his ability before that huge extension even kicked in. Not ideal.

Hart, good goalie on a crappy team, the numbers suffer.

Konecny is worth a lot. Laughton is a warrior and a heart-and-soul guy and a PKer and every cliche that hockey coaches and GMs love, so he has some value too.

One guy I don't see much trade discussion around? Farabee. Again, back surgery, crappy season, called out by Torts—but quite young, quite talented, decent contract if he bounces back.

TL;DR incompetent organization and asshole coach diminish player value.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Of course.
Tells me you dont like him that much.

What do you expect to get for Hart exactly?

 

[JRichard]

What do you expect to get for Hart exactly?

Went back at drafts from 2004-2015.
48 players drafted
i’d say 3 players have better careers than Hart. Ugly odds
At least half the draftees busted (24). Very ugly odds
Many are bottom lines guys.

Tried the 2003 draft, a very good one: Patrick Eaves and 3 busts.

so i expect something else than Fla’s pick. I dont expect a better offer from Mtl though as they are not in a hurry to make a move unlike loaded teams but missing a g.

Here is what i think i would like: a 2nd rounder (can be 2024) and 2 prospects. Not gonna go into all prospects but lets say names outside your top 5. Can be « older » prospects like Ylonen, Heineman, Struble or jr players like Kidney, Beck, Mesar.

Would not hurt Mtl and would give Philly 3 shots at someone who could turn out as a NHler.

Philly was hurt by trades of early picks in 21 and 22.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Would be curious to see what more the Sens would have to add to get Hart for Sogaard.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Calgary can offer 3 separate packages for Konecny I figure, and if he’s available they definitely should. Konecny for any of:

2023 16th overall
Dillon Dube

Noah Hanifin
Dillon Dube
Late round pick

Oliver Kylington
Dillon Dube
2nd round pick

Flyers get players on expiring deals they can send off at the trade deadline for a haul of picks, or just take a mid 1st in a deep draft now. Calgary gets a player who slots their forward core very nicely while only getting rid of some of our more expendable assets to maximize their chances the next few years. After the trade Calgary sits at:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Konecny
Pelletier-Kadri-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman
X-Ruzicka-Duehr

Weegar-Andersson
Hanifin/Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Stetcher/X

 

[tictactoe]

There's every chance it'll be his decision. He's 24 now, he's going to be at least 27 when we're any good and who knows how long his career will last? Goalies break these days.

yes, goalie break these days... so let him break here, f that.. I do not wanna see Emery Boucher Leighton in one season..

So he doesn't get John Gibson'd

He does not Joh Gibson? WHats wrong with John and what does it have to do with Carter?

Well, you move him if you can get something that will help your rebuild. Because goaltending is extremely overrated, and nearly useless for a rebuilding team. Even if you think he's the next Luongo, Price, or Lundqvist, you're better off with a nasty deep team and a Corey Crawford or Darcy Kuemper.

Any ffing idiot can move Hart now.. Try moving Hayes, possible broken Couturier, Sanheim. Leave this young goalie alone. We have time to trade him and he does not have to go now.

Everyone says rebuild, like this is somekind of 100% sure win win.. Like shit is going to get 100% better because we rebuild... Look at Edmonton, look at Toronto how long did it take them and where they are now...

 

[KevinRedkey]

He does not Joh Gibson? WHats wrong with John and what does it have to do with Carter?

At Hart's age, Gibson had 178 games played, to Hart's 201
Both were considered good starters in their early 20s
Both were drafted in the 2nd round
Both were on non-contenders
Both were/are desirable to more competitive teams.

Gibson is now turning 30yrs old and wasted many of his prime years on a bad team.
If Hart stays in Philly for the next 5yrs, it's not hard to imagine the same will happen to him.

Go back 5yrs and Gibson is basically Carter Hart now.

 

[tictactoe]

At Hart's age, Gibson had 178 games played, to Hart's 201
Both were considered good starters in their early 20s
Both were drafted in the 2nd round
Both were on non-contenders
Both were/are desirable to more competitive teams.

Gibson is now turning 30yrs old and wasted many of his prime years on a bad team.
If Hart stays in Philly for the next 5yrs, it's not hard to imagine the same will happen to him.

Go back 5yrs and Gibson is basically Carter Hart now.

Makes no difference to me... He will play those 5 years here while we rebuild or as you say we will get return that wont help and we still rebuild for 5 years but without goalie...

Or you saying that we will get such a magic return that will makes us a contender without a goalie? Not like we havent tried that in 2010 with Emery Leighton, Boucher and other 2-3 goalies.

 

[Rich Nixon]

yes, goalie break these days... so let him break here, f that.. I do not wanna see Emery Boucher Leighton in one season..


He does not Joh Gibson? WHats wrong with John and what does it have to do with Carter?


Any ffing idiot can move Hart now.. Try moving Hayes, possible broken Couturier, Sanheim. Leave this young goalie alone. We have time to trade him and he does not have to go now.

Everyone says rebuild, like this is somekind of 100% sure win win.. Like shit is going to get 100% better because we rebuild... Look at Edmonton, look at Toronto how long did it take them and where they are now...

I mean, they're rebuilding. That's where they are. And that's when you trade guys who can return value, which you can use to get better in the future. Shitty and/or broken vets on long deals don't have much value. The young goalie might.

You trade him now because now is a good time to trade him.

1. He is an RFA next summer. So, sometime between now and next summer, he will need a contract extension. For prospective buyers, it gives more flexibility to acquire him before that point.

2. The team is really shitty. So before you subject his stats, health, and trade value to another 60 games behind a really shitty hockey team, you just trade him now.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Makes no difference to me... He will play those 5 years here while we rebuild or as you say we will get return that wont help and we still rebuild for 5 years but without goalie...

Or you saying that we will get such a magic return that will makes us a contender without a goalie? Not like we havent tried that in 2010 with Emery Leighton, Boucher and other 2-3 goalies.

You asked a question and I answered it.

A better question wouldbe to ask Anaheim fans if they would have rather be a bottom feeder with Gibson over the last 5yrs (reality), or have the assets he would have gained 5yrs ago, but with some other goalie in nets instead. My guess is the poll would be very lopsided in favor of "trade Gibson 5yrs ago".

But go ahead and keep Hart as if it matters I guess? lol

 

[TFHockey]

I’d be all over some sort of basis of RNH for TK

Full NMC for RNH. Forget it.

 

[tictactoe]

You asked a question and I answered it.

A better question wouldbe to ask Anaheim fans if they would have rather be a bottom feeder with Gibson over the last 5yrs (reality), or have the assets he would have gained 5yrs ago, but with some other goalie in nets instead. My guess is the poll would be very lopsided in favor of "trade Gibson 5yrs ago".

But go ahead and keep Hart as if it matters I guess? lol

Some other goalie? Like some "OTHER" goalie from freaking where lol? Where will Anaheim get that goalie from?

and who says that return from Hart will help us and even if it does, wtf are we going to do without a goalie...

do you even understand the concept of my questions? I did not ask questions, shit is rhetorical

P.S I did not ask YOU anything cheech.. was not even talking to you really.

 

[tictactoe]

I mean, they're rebuilding. That's where they are. And that's when you trade guys who can return value, which you can use to get better in the future. Shitty and/or broken vets on long deals don't have much value. The young goalie might.

You trade him now because now is a good time to trade him.

1. He is an RFA next summer. So, sometime between now and next summer, he will need a contract extension. For prospective buyers, it gives more flexibility to acquire him before that point.

2. The team is really shitty. So before you subject his stats, health, and trade value to another 60 games behind a really shitty hockey team, you just trade him now.

You mean if Flyers are rebuilding they have to start clearing farmstarting with 24 year old goalie? Not with Couturier, Hayes, Atkinson Ryan freaking Ellis... etc..

I mean teams cannot build around #1 goalie? because Hart can become Gibson(still not sure what that means in terms of hockey)