Value of: Hart, Konecny, Provorov, Sanheim, Laughton, Couturier

[KevinRedkey]

Some other goalie? Like some "OTHER" goalie from freaking where lol? Where will Anaheim get that goalie from?

and who says that return from Hart will help us and even if it does, wtf are we going to do without a goalie...

do you even understand the concept of my questions? I did not ask questions, shit is rhetorical

P.S I did not ask YOU anything cheech.. was not even talking to you really.

I'm going to assume English isn't your first language and leave it at that.

 

[JRichard]

I'm going to assume English isn't your first language and leave it at that.

The Hart-Gibson comp is interesting.
Most seasons both goalies have better numbers than whoever dresses in same colors.

But the « wasting » years stuff i dont get.

We dont know the return Ana would have gotten for Gibson. Historically goalies get low returns.

If your intention is to win, better off keeping better goalie until somebody else becomes better. Philly might have that in Ersson. Pretty sure they had it with Fedotov. Bad luck there.

philly wont start their rebuild with Hart. But if they can make deals for Provorov, Hayes, then maybe they keep going with hart.

 

[Rich Nixon]

You mean if Flyers are rebuilding they have to start clearing farmstarting with 24 year old goalie? Not with Couturier, Hayes, Atkinson Ryan freaking Ellis... etc..

I mean teams cannot build around #1 goalie? because Hart can become Gibson(still not sure what that means in terms of hockey)

The players you list range from "very little value" to "extreme negative value."

I am not the guy talking about Gibson, but name for me a single successful team built around a f***ing goalie. You build around high-end forward talent and strong defense. Goaltending is irrelevant for a team in their position.

 

[AcerComputer]

Leafs will take Konecny returning him to his rightful team.

 

[kcunac]

Dropping the contracts for OEL and Myers is worth the 11th on its own. You're getting two very decent pieces on top too, it's just not enough for the Flyers to agree to it.

I'm assuming Philly can't pick up over 13 million in salary and give none back. Also, are you seriously saying Hayes is a decent piece?

 

[1865]

I'm assuming Philly can't pick up over 13 million in salary and give none back. Also, are you seriously saying Hayes is a decent piece?

Hayes has just come off the back of a career high 54 point season with this ramshackle team. He's expensive, but he's not a waste of space.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Hayes has just come off the back of a career high 54 point season with this ramshackle team. He's expensive, but he's not a waste of space.

Again, I just can't imagine anyone taking a long look at his season coming out of it with much interest in the player. Konecny's insane start inflated his early season point totals. Post-benching he was an extremely-disinterested sack of bones who played at a 40 point pace over the final 50 games of the season. He was downright BAD from January on, some of the laziest hockey I have ever seen played. Anyone who scouted him then or sits down to watch video this summer is going to be extremely underwhelmed. Passenger at best, but frequently a liability.

There's a market if you retain like, 40-50% of his deal. It's just not gonna be much more than a middle-round pick.

 

[PALE PWNR]

I appreciate the time taken to make offers in this thread. It gives me hope that the Flyers have players of value that they can move for good futures if they choose to do so. I just hope that they do choose to do so.

 

[Skizwald]

Again, I just can't imagine anyone taking a long look at his season coming out of it with much interest in the player. Konecny's insane start inflated his early season point totals. Post-benching he was an extremely-disinterested sack of bones who played at a 40 point pace over the final 50 games of the season. He was downright BAD from January on, some of the laziest hockey I have ever seen played. Anyone who scouted him then or sits down to watch video this summer is going to be extremely underwhelmed. Passenger at best, but frequently a liability.

There's a market if you retain like, 40-50% of his deal. It's just not gonna be much more than a middle-round pick.

Did you mean Hayes?

 

[Rich Nixon]

Did you mean Hayes?

No? Reread the sentence maybe. The whole post is about Hayes, whose career high point totals were largely the result of playing with Konecny during a run in which Konecny scored 24 times in 36 games. When he no longer played with Konecny, he reverted to the uninpressive production he has always had.

 

[tictactoe]

The players you list range from "very little value" to "extreme negative value."

I am not the guy talking about Gibson, but name for me a single successful team built around a f***ing goalie. You build around high-end forward talent and strong defense. Goaltending is irrelevant for a team in their position.

Well, if you cannot move big contracts and big names how do you plan to rebuild?

Pens started their rebuild with MAF, Habs tried to do the same thing with Price, if I am not mistaken NYR with Henrick were built around goalie...

Name me a team that traded their goalie, finished rebuild and went to SC?

 

[dgaspari]

Logan Cooley for the 7OA​

 

[Rich Nixon]

Well, if you cannot move big contracts and big names how do you plan to rebuild?

Pens started their rebuild with MAF, Habs tried to do the same thing with Price, if I am not mistaken NYR with Henrick were built around goalie...

Name me a team that traded their goalie, finished rebuild and went to SC?

the Pens rebuild was Sidney f***in' Crosby and Geno Malkin bud. MAF did his job, but he was the only one you mentioned who won a Cup, and he backed up a much worse goalie while 87 and 71 went and won the other two. don't know what to tell you man. goaltending is often the last piece of the puzzle.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Considering they just ChatGPT'd their way through all of their new President press releases and quotes, you're not wrong.

Actually them using ChatGPT is proof that they wouldn't do it since ChatGPT uses common sense in their dealings.

 

[tictactoe]

the Pens rebuild was Sidney f***in' Crosby and Geno Malkin bud. MAF did his job, but he was the only one you mentioned who won a Cup, and he backed up a much worse goalie while 87 and 71 went and won the other two. don't know what to tell you man. goaltending is often the last piece of the puzzle.

I said Pens started their rebuild with MAF... I said nothing about cup and I said nothing about 87 or 71 or who were more important.. You may wanna rewatch 1st SC and how MAF looked against Detroit..

If it was about drafting forward and build around forward they would go with Eric Staal.

You build around high-end forward talent and strong defense. Goaltending is irrelevant for a team in their position.

No alwalys.

 

[Pantokrator]

The Flyers should not trade Hart. This is a team that has struggled to find a legitimate long term starting goalie since Bernie Parent. At 24, he is still young enough to be helpful.

If he does get back to his “old self” many teams will want him.

Couturier would be a perfect fit on the Leafs.

If Couturier was sent to the Leafs, I would actually pull for the Leafs.

Not saying they shouldn't but has Flyers management sad they've committed to a full rebuild or is it just the fans wanting it? Also you're going to have to greatly lower your expectations there. Not that those are bad players but with how tricky contracts and the cap are right now it's possible the Flyers could play a 'please just take any of these guys for free' game and not find a home for everyone.

The Flyers are supposedly in a rebuild, which means when they are really bad come January, they will give up on the rebuild.

 

[Boxscore]

I also think a Marner- Philly scenario could be interesting. But if it happens Provorov should be a main target for the Leafs. Interesting idea to retain on Marner in a second deal, that could be a deadly move for a contender.

I also thought a Marner to Philly deal would be a good fit... until I heard Briere and Jones both say this will be a long rebuild and no shortcuts or quick fixes will be taken like in the past.

Trading for Marner with 2 years left on a hefty deal makes zero sense for a rebuilding Flyers team.

Jones said they are going to be strategic with the players they target and John Tortorella will have a say. I sure don't see him lining up to offer the farm for a kid like Marner.

Jones also said the Flyers want to build from the defense out. I wonder if teams with a deep D cupboard like Anaheim or Columbus would move a young D prize for a player like Konecny+?

 

[Pantokrator]

Does Philly are ready to retain ? if yes COlorado can be interested in Couturier if he can play this year

I want Philly to trade Hayes to Colorado. Flyers eat half of his contract. Colorado gets an offensive second line center. I don't want anything in return.

 

[Pantokrator]

If you are actually an Oiler fan, you know that RNH isn't going to be traded.

The Oilers are interested in Travis Sanheim though. Both teams are basically capped out, so how about something like this:

To Edmonton:

Sanheim (6.25M)

To Philly
Philip Broberg (863K, RFA)
Cody Ceci (3.25M X 2 years, then UFA))
Kailer Yamamoto (3.1M X 1 yr, then RFA)

Broberg is coming along slowly - he shows NHL talent for sure, but he needs to bulk up a bit over the summer, and we don't have time to wait for him to develop, we need to fill the blueline hole and get moving towards contender status.

Ceci is a good 4/5 guy at a fair deal. I would love to keep him as our 3rd pair RD, but with cap issues, we need to cut some salary to bring in Sanheim.

Yamamoto - middle sixer, coming off of a bad year, but he scored 20 a year ago, and he has always played good, smart, tenacious hockey, despite being so undersized.

If the Oilers need to add another futures piece, we can probably do that, but Broberg is going to be good in a year or two, there is a lot of value with him.

I do this if I am the Flyers. This gives the Flyers a young prospect and two players they can trade at the deadline in the future. It gets rid of a long contract as well, and Edmonton gets a solid defender for a long time.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I also thought a Marner to Philly deal would be a good fit... until I heard Briere and Jones both say this will be a long rebuild and no shortcuts or quick fixes will be taken like in the past.

Trading for Marner with 2 years left on a hefty deal makes zero sense for a rebuilding Flyers team.

Jones said they are going to be strategic with the players they target and John Tortorella will have a say. I sure don't see him lining up to offer the farm for a kid like Marner.

Jones also said the Flyers want to build from the defense out. I wonder if teams with a deep D cupboard like Anaheim or Columbus would move a young D prize for a player like Konecny+?

The Flyers need developmental staff and a decent scouting staff before they start building anything, new medical staff is a must as well.

Well see what kinda moves Jones and Briere make with the front office, if they don’t make those moves then it’s a certainty nothing will change, if that’s the case the Flyers would be best to sell everything that isn’t bolted down.

 

[Pantokrator]

11OV, OEL, Myers for Sanheim, Hayes.

Salary is similar. OEL and Myers are elite tank commanders and the OEL buyout won't be that bad once PHI is ready to compete.

11OV is a very solid piece for the rebuild and Myers @ 50% could get PHI a decent pick at the deadline.

Or perhaps 11OV, Myers for Sanheim + but not sure what the plus would be.

I do this. It gets rid of Hayes, Myers only has a year left on his contract. OEL's contract is just a year longer than Hayes.

 

[JRichard]

I want Philly to trade Hayes to Colorado. Flyers eat half of his contract. Colorado gets an offensive second line center. I don't want anything in return.

Saving 3.5 mil (and still paying 3.5 mil) for nothing for 3 yrs is not enough to get rid of a 40-50 pt player.
Acquiring team should pay something to get Hayes at 3.5 for next 3 yrs.
Would agree with no retention.