Value of: Hart, Konecny, Provorov, Sanheim, Laughton, Couturier

[Fjordy]

UPL + 1st for Hart

 

[ponder719]

UPL + 1st for Hart

I think that would absolutely work for the Flyers, presuming you mean pick #13 this year.

 

[Curufinwe]

I remember when Couts was going to be a Selke contender

Do you remember when he won the Selke?

2019-20 NHL Awards Voting | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[wintersej]

Do you remember when he won the Selke?

2019-20 NHL Awards Voting | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Yeah I phrased that funny. He was supposed to be an annual contender and he obviously never had that happen.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah I phrased that funny. He was supposed to be an annual contender and he obviously never had that happen.

Apart from those three years where that did happen.

17-18: 2nd
18-19: 6th
19-20: 1st
20-21: 15th

 

[GTA]

As a base (WHICH MEANS THERE MAY BE ADDS ON EITHER SIDE)

Konecny, Laughton, Hart

for

Marner

Philly flips Marner @50%. Could get a real good package for that.

Probably more like Konecny + Laughton + Cutter Gauthier ++. Marner is one of the best players in the league, let’s be real here.

 

[EK392000]

Probably more like Konecny + Laughton + Cutter Gauthier ++. Marner is one of the best players in the league, let’s be real here.

Hence why I indicated it was a base.

If Philly wants a scorched earth rebuild, Gauthier is not on the table. They just drafted him.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Couturier is a cap dump at this point. Nobody is paying assets for that contract right now.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

If the Flyers are actually open to doing it, I'm guessing the Kings would want to do Kupari + Durzi + Petersen + picks/prospects for Provorov + Hart. Unless they can extend Gavrikov. Not sure that Kings and Flyers would be able to agree on the picks/prospects part though.

I'm sure the Kings would, but that's... bad. Durzi is not good and Kupari has a long way to go before he's even serviceable.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Flames would probably have interest in Konecny. 16th overall for Konecny?

With what cap space lol

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Couturier is a cap dump at this point. Nobody is paying assets for that contract right now.

No he's not. He's simply at discounted value like Eichel was. The acquiring team would have to get access to his medicals or course

 

[TheKingPin]

I remember when Couts was going to be a Selke contender and Philly had the best group of young d-men and D prospects in the league.

And I remember when WPG was getting 202X Stanley Cup champions? covers with their epic prospect pool.

Rebuilding is hard. And then when it doesn’t work and you have to do it again? Yikes

Couts won a Selke.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Neutral fan, but something that seems logical would be:

Marner + something (Timmins?)

for

Provorov + Konecny

Money is nearly identical, Leafs get a big upgrade on D, Flyers get a game-changing forward and a young RH dman.

If I'm the Leafs I then call up LA and see about a Roy - McCabe swap

 

[Gurglesons]

14th overall for Laughton and NYR’s 3rd

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

No he's not. He's simply at discounted value like Eichel was. The acquiring team would have to get access to his medicals or course

He hasn't played hockey in over a year due to injury, only played 29 games in 21/22 and he's already on the north side of 30, signed for another 6 years at almost $8M...


He most certainly is a cap dump

 

[ponder719]

Neutral fan, but something that seems logical would be:

Marner + something (Timmins?)

for

Provorov + Konecny

Money is nearly identical, Leafs get a big upgrade on D, Flyers get a game-changing forward and a young RH dman.

If I'm the Leafs I then call up LA and see about a Roy - McCabe swap

The Flyers are not looking for a game-changing forward in his prime, because we'd waste his career like we did G's. If Marner to a third team for future assets was part of the deal, there's something to work with here.

He hasn't played hockey in over a year due to injury, only played 29 games in 21/22 and he's already on the north side of 30, signed for another 6 years at almost $8M...


He most certainly is a cap dump

He's most certainly not, because we have no need to move him on that basis. I don't expect anyone to trade for him this offseason, but we aren't moving players just to move them, we're moving them to collect assets for the long term. He'd either be moved after a close look at his medicals at a discounted value, but still at some value, or we'll keep him until he proves his health back on the ice.

 

[Freaky Styley]

The Flyers are not looking for a game-changing forward in his prime, because we'd waste his career like we did G's. If Marner to a third team for future assets was part of the deal, there's something to work with here.

Ya I think that's a great option for the Flyers too. I still think there's value for Philly to have a guy like Marner as a veteran shouldering the load for the young players and being their new Captain potentially. I'm not super familiar with Philly's prospect pool so maybe it's more worth it to them to flip Marner and build up the pool.

Marner is still only 26 though and has a lot of miles left. The guy will still be a top-end player by the time Philly would be on the rebound and will be effective well into his 30s. Laughton would also be a good target for the Leafs

 

[ponder719]

Ya I think that's a great option for the Flyers too. I still think there's value for Philly to have a guy like Marner as a veteran shouldering the load for the young players and being their new Captain potentially. I'm not super familiar with Philly's prospect pool so maybe it's more worth it to them to flip Marner and build up the pool.

Marner is still only 26 though and has a lot of miles left. The guy will still be a top-end player by the time Philly would be on the rebound. Laughton would also be a good target for the Leafs

I've always preferred the "tear the whole thing down" method of rebuilding (big Process fan, Hinkie come home), so my inclination is to not worry about shouldering the load for the young players. If we want some lead by example types, well, Couturier's a very plausible next captain, since we aren't likely to get anything for him right now. Laughton should be traded for value (should have been traded back before we extended him, for that matter), but if we don't, I think Torts will eventually upgrade his A to a C, since he's the only player who was trusted with any sort of letter this season.

Beyond that, we'll be able to pick up some "plays the right way" kind of veterans to help flesh out the team for a while, until the younger players are properly ready to step up. I just want us to take anyone of medium-to-high value who will be leaving their prime in the next 4-5 years, when I next see us being competitive, and rehoming them in exchange for players who fit that timeline.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The Flyers are not looking for a game-changing forward in his prime, because we'd waste his career like we did G's. If Marner to a third team for future assets was part of the deal, there's something to work with here.


He's most certainly not, because we have no need to move him on that basis. I don't expect anyone to trade for him this offseason, but we aren't moving players just to move them, we're moving them to collect assets for the long term. He'd either be moved after a close look at his medicals at a discounted value, but still at some value, or we'll keep him until he proves his health back on the ice.

Obviously.... That doesn't mean he isn't still a cap dump. He just wont be traded because of it.

Nobody is trading for him given his contract situation and his injury status. Philly also obviously wont trade him given that he has literally zero value. Its a situation that perhaps gets revisited at the trade deadline next summer if Couts can come back, be healthy and play at the level he was capable of before the injuries.



His situation is pretty similar to Landeskogs with the Avs, and at this point Landy is absolutely without question a negative value cap dump as well. When you're 30+ missing almost 2 entire seasons due to injury, nobody is trading for you.


EDIT: The last time Couturier played a game of hockey was December 18th 2021, that's 17 months ago and by the time October gets here it'll be closing in on 2 years. Nobody is taking a chance on him just by "looking at his medicals" after a damn near 2 year injury absence. He's gotta actually play games for Philly and prove he can play again before anybody considers trading anything of value for him.

 

[ponder719]

Obviously.... That doesn't mean he isn't still a cap dump. He just wont be traded because of it.

Nobody is trading for him given his contract situation and his injury status. Philly also obviously wont trade him given that he has literally zero value. Its a situation that perhaps gets revisited at the trade deadline next summer if Couts can come back, be healthy and play at the level he was capable of before the injuries.

His situation is pretty similar to Landeskogs with the Avs, and at this point Landy is absolutely without question a negative value cap dump as well. When you're 30+ missing almost 2 entire seasons due to injury, nobody is trading for you.

And there's the difference of opinion. IMO, a key element of "cap dump" is "dump." If you aren't intending to move a player, they're just expensive. They become a cap dump when you're willing to pay assets to get rid of them.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

And there's the difference of opinion. IMO, a key element of "cap dump" is "dump." If you aren't intending to move a player, they're just expensive. They become a cap dump when you're willing to pay assets to get rid of them.

I guess... I dont think the Flyers have any intention of trading him either. Its more so of IF they wanted to deal him today, it would cost them assets to dump him. But considering the title of the thread is "Value of Couturier" the answer to that question today is negative value.

But yeah its also for that reason that they shouldn't have any interest in moving him as they're not exactly in need of his cap space or roster spot to go compete for a cup anytime soon. Let him come back, see if he can stay healthy and get back to playing at a high level and then by next summer he might have some value around the league... Although even then I dont imagine he would have much value. Next summer he'll be 31 turning 32 in December, signed for 6 more years until he's 38 years old.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Not sure on hes value but send Hart to Montreal

 

[GTA]

Hence why I indicated it was a base.

If Philly wants a scorched earth rebuild, Gauthier is not on the table. They just drafted him.

The + would have to be more valuable than the base. What elite pieces are you offering?

 

[Ovi895]

These players should probably all be available, as the Flyers enter into a rebuild. Who would be interested, and for what? Flyers would likely only be looking for Blue chip prospects, high draft picks or players under 22 years old. The Flyers currently have no cap room, so keep that in mind when making offers. They would likely be willing to eat contracts if they are sending salary out.

Current contracts

Carter Hart - 3.979M for 1 more Year - RFA, 24 Years old
Travis Konecny - 5.5M for 2 more Years - UFA, 26 Years old
Ivan Provorov - 6.75M for 2 more years - UFA, 26 Years old
Travis Sanheim - 6.25M for 8 more years - UFA 27 Years old
Scott Laughton - 3M for 3 more years - UFA 28 years old
Sean Couturier - 7.75M for 7 more years - UFA 30 years old

Rebuild doesn't mean you just jettison all your good players, more like swap in ones that don't work with younger ones that do. Especially since tanking in the coming years is much less rewarding than it would have been this year

Keep Konecny and Sanheim, move Provorov because it seems like he's no longer working out in Philly, move Laughton because he's replaceable for a retooling team but has value to a contending team, move Hart because he has huge value but they can voodoo their way to a comparable goalie just being proactive. Couturier is probably unmoveable with the questions around his back

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He hasn't played hockey in over a year due to injury, only played 29 games in 21/22 and he's already on the north side of 30, signed for another 6 years at almost $8M...


He most certainly is a cap dump

So like Eichel... But not nearly as a good a return due to age. You have to assume he's 100% healthy in any trade involving him because no team would consider trading for him if he's not