Proposal: Hampus Lindholm offer sheet (BUF/NJD)

[Mr Positive]

Would the ducks match 7.5 for 4 years or take a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

I would think yes. Losing your 1D for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd is just too devastating. If you want any chance at Lindholm you have to get the compensation to the four 1sts range. Like others are saying, you can do that and have a 7-8 AAV

 

[Whileee]

Here's my theory.

The "market" has been set for young D coming of ELCs on 6-year terms (Rielly $5M, Jones $5.4M, Maatta $4.1M).

However, I think that the Ducks, Jets and Sabres are likely trying to get Lindholm, Trouba and Ristolainen signed to longer deals (7 or 8 years). It's likely harder to pin down that value at this stage and maybe each GM / agent is waiting to see if one of the deals gets done to set a precedent.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

I would think yes. Losing your 1D for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd is just too devastating. If you want any chance at Lindholm you have to get the compensation to the four 1sts range. Like others are saying, you can do that and have a 7-8 AAV

So any GM can offer him 7.5 for 4 years and the result is the ducks have to over pay for his RFA years and he becomes a UFA his 1st year eligible.

Would the ducks match 9 for 4 years or take 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd?

 

[Pennaduck]

Would the ducks match 7.5 for 4 years or take a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

I would think they would match 7.5 for 4 years. The Ducks would obviously have to move some talent out though to make room for that salary but we are already expecting at least one defensemen to be moved anyway.

If matching an offer sheet of 7.5 million or more means losing Rakell or Silfverberg though in addition to having to deal Fowler, I'd be pretty pissed at Lindholm for doing that to the team. Not to mention it would probably jack up the salaries for Risto and Trouba and other RFAs going forward, so it'd be a move that pissed off a lot of GMs I would think.

 

[Pennaduck]

So any GM can offer him 7.5 for 4 years and the result is the ducks have to over pay for his RFA years and he becomes a UFA his 1st year eligible.

Would the ducks match 9 for 4 years or take 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd?

1) There really aren't that many GMs that can offer 7.5 for 4 years that due to their own cap issues/RFA issues to sort out. Plus we would match and it would up the RFA values of other good young Dmen finishing their ELCs so a lot of GMs would be pissed.

2) There are even fewer teams who could do 9 for 4 years, and then wouldn't they also be in the same situation (He becomes UFA in his first year eligible).

 

[CupfortheSharks]

1) There really aren't that many GMs that can offer 7.5 for 4 years that due to their own cap issues/RFA issues to sort out. Plus we would match and it would up the RFA values of other good young Dmen finishing their ELCs so a lot of GMs would be pissed.

2) There are even fewer teams who could do 9 for 4 years, and then wouldn't they also be in the same situation (He becomes UFA in his first year eligible).

I asked the 7.5 X 4 question knowing the answer. The ducks have to match. Any GM can make that offer regardless of their situation. The ducks have to match and the GM won't have to deal with the contract.

The 9 X 4 question is the real one. Is lindholm worth 9 per year? A GM would have to have a lot of faith in him to pay him that much at this point. It's a big risk. Would the ducks match? The compensation isn't enough but the 9 per year would really hurt. I'm not sure what would happen if lindholm signed this kind of offer sheet.

 

[Savant]

How much does Lindholm want? How much does Trouba want?

 

[Ducks DVM]

I asked the 7.5 X 4 question knowing the answer. The ducks have to match. Any GM can make that offer regardless of their situation. The ducks have to match and the GM won't have to deal with the contract.

The 9 X 4 question is the real one. Is lindholm worth 9 per year? A GM would have to have a lot of faith in him to pay him that much at this point. It's a big risk. Would the ducks match? The compensation isn't enough but the 9 per year would really hurt. I'm not sure what would happen if lindholm signed this kind of offer sheet.

Not technically accurate. You can only go over the cap by 10% in the summer, so you'd need at least 200K cap space in order to make that offer sheet. I'm believe that the player is assigned to the new team's roster as far as Cap purposes are concerned the instant they sign the offer sheet. Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto are currently listed as over the cap regardless and need to shed salary by the end of training camp to be compliant regardless. LA is too close as well (assuming General fanager has accurate numbers)

9M a year ties him for the highest cap hit for defensemen in the league. Only 7 other defensemen in the league make 7M or more, and only Subban makes over 8. He's not worth that. I know it's a "what if" scenario, but no team is going to destroy their salary structure offering that contract - their own free agents will immediately have their hands out. The Ducks would take the compensation though. Weber was worth that sort of contract. Lindholm is not, and probably will never be, worth that contract.

I personally suspect the real deadline is the start of the fake tournament. One serious injury and all the contracts go away, and he won't be insured for what he'll be risking for his entire career.

 

[Pennaduck]

I asked the 7.5 X 4 question knowing the answer. The ducks have to match. Any GM can make that offer regardless of their situation. The ducks have to match and the GM won't have to deal with the contract.

The 9 X 4 question is the real one. Is lindholm worth 9 per year? A GM would have to have a lot of faith in him to pay him that much at this point. It's a big risk. Would the ducks match? The compensation isn't enough but the 9 per year would really hurt. I'm not sure what would happen if lindholm signed this kind of offer sheet.

Well it would make him the highest paid defenseman in the league, and the 5th highest paid player in the league, so no he is not worth 9 per year. He is a great young player but not deserving of that kind of salary at this point. I really don't see it as an option for any GM to give him that large of a contract. Only a handful of teams even have that much cap space and two of those (WPG and CGY) have RFAs of their own still to resign. I think the only team that could pull off an offer like right now is the Devils, and I'm not sure they have the requisite picks to give up.

Assuming he was offered that much I don't think the Ducks would or could match, but you could say the same thing about any RFA offered that kind of coin. Do you think Buffalo would match a 9 million offer for Ristolainen? Would Calgary match 9 million for Gaudreau?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Rasmus Rustolainen remains unsigned and nobody says a word

but when Hampus Lindholm is brought up, everyone loses their minds

 

[Legend123]

Well it would make him the highest paid defenseman in the league, and the 5th highest paid player in the league, so no he is not worth 9 per year. He is a great young player but not deserving of that kind of salary at this point. I really don't see it as an option for any GM to give him that large of a contract. Only a handful of teams even have that much cap space and two of those (WPG and CGY) have RFAs of their own still to resign. I think the only team that could pull off an offer like right now is the Devils, and I'm not sure they have the requisite picks to give up.

Assuming he was offered that much I don't think the Ducks would or could match, but you could say the same thing about any RFA offered that kind of coin. Do you think Buffalo would match a 9 million offer for Ristolainen? Would Calgary match 9 million for Gaudreau?

No one in thier right mind will offer that much to Gaudreau esp to Ristolainen. As good as R is, he would become a detriment to the team.

 

[Romang67]

i translated the article and it said "economical" lol

He definitely said cheap. More specifically, he said that Anaheim is one of the cheaper teams in the league. He also said that he could sign anything, but if he accept a shameful offer, he would set the bar low for everyone else.

 

[Hally BlackWood]

I would offer him 7.5 for 5 years and if it works great. If ANA matchs oh well we probably got them to sign him for more then they wanted to. Then it forces them to look at moving other assets.

 

[Pennaduck]

He definitely said cheap. More specifically, he said that Anaheim is one of the cheaper teams in the league. He also said that he could sign anything, but if he accept a shameful offer, he would set the bar low for everyone else.

He's not wrong. We had the 7th lowest payroll in the league last season and a few teams spent almost 10 million more than us when you factor in LTIR. We are historically a team that taps out several million below the cap ceiling. Everyone knows this. Lindholm stating that in a candid manner doesn't imply anything aside from him simply explaining that he is still negotiating for his fair value. To keep from sounding selfish, he pulls the union card out and says its also because if he signed for too low a figure it would impact the salaries of other RFAs this season and in the future.

The bar has already been set by a number of good young RFA defenseman and that range is 4.5 to 5.5 million on a moderately long term (4-5 years) deal. Murray is doing his job by probably trying to sign him to the low end of this, while his agent is doing his job by trying to set the bar even higher than the high end of this, and the two sides haven't come to an agreement yet because their has not been a pressing need to do so. He is an RFA. The only leverage he has is an offer sheet, a holdout, or a long trip to Europe. I think everyone is reading way to far into this because it is late summer and there is nothing else to talk about.

 

[broman]

Disclaimer: I am a Finn, not a native Swedish speaker, but here goes anyway.

"Kanske lite snålare" is a quite mild expression. "Maybe little more stingy" comes close. He is not implying Anaheim are "cheap" in a negative tone, in fact he seems to be going out of his way to avoid appearing inflammatory. To me, he clearly understands that a business negotiation is under way. Having said that, he is clearly taking a stand, making it clear that he wants "what he's worth".

"Skambud" is wordplay on the word for "offer". It translates literally to "shame offer", something that is ridiculously or obviously below market value. It ties into other quotes when he says you must "compare with what other players are getting and adapt to that". Also, you don't want to "hurt others by setting the bar too low".

All in all, he's putting a lot of emphasis on what's "fair". Granted that's partly a Swedish cultural thing: the nation as a whole is more or less obsessed with fairness and equality, so it's a natural tone for a public eye discussion to take, especially when there isn't a lot of substance to talk about. It's like the Brits discussing weather. But regardless, that's his message, and he's driving it home with intent.

 

[HanSolo]

Honestly I'm am absolutely stunned Buffalo hasn't tendered one yet. Buffalo fans were so sure it was gonna happen. They even had me convinced.

 

[helax]

Disclaimer: I am a Finn, not a native Swedish speaker, but here goes anyway.

"Kanske lite snålare" is a quite mild expression. "Maybe little more stingy" comes close. He is not implying Anaheim are "cheap" in a negative tone, in fact he seems to be going out of his way to avoid appearing inflammatory. To me, he clearly understands that a business negotiation is under way. Having said that, he is clearly taking a stand, making it clear that he wants "what he's worth".

"Skambud" is wordplay on the word for "offer". It translates literally to "shame offer", something that is ridiculously or obviously below market value. It ties into other quotes when he says you must "compare with what other players are getting and adapt to that". Also, you don't want to "hurt others by setting the bar too low".

All in all, he's putting a lot of emphasis on what's "fair". Granted that's partly a Swedish cultural thing: the nation as a whole is more or less obsessed with fairness and equality, so it's a natural tone for a public eye discussion to take, especially when there isn't a lot of substance to talk about. It's like the Brits discussing weather. But regardless, that's his message, and he's driving it home with intent.

Skambud is a hard way to express oneself in Swedish, as you say, our culture is very modest and centred on fair treatment. How i interpret that phrase is that he's not happy with the offer he has received so far.

"Kanske lite snålare" is also a typical Swedish that means "they are cheap", because if you call out someone for being cheap "snål" without the sugar coating "kanske lite" in front is a very aggressive way of expressing yourself in Swedish.
If one reads between the lines, he’s not happy so far with the negotiations, BUT he thinks that they probably will reach a deal that both parties will think is fair.

 

[Heraldic]

Honestly I'm am absolutely stunned Buffalo hasn't tendered one yet. Buffalo fans were so sure it was gonna happen. They even had me convinced.

I recommend you to update yourself. Buffalo already addressed their LHD need. And beside that, I doubt they are making any moves as long as they have their key RFAs still without an extension.

After getting them under extensions, and being able to make cap room, it could be another story. But at the moment they don't have a pressing need to add LHD as they had before the draft.

***

As a Ducks fan, I wouldn't be that relieved to read those things that Lindholm has been throwing there pretty much the whole summer. If he wants to get paid accordingly, his best option is to sign an offersheet if B.Murray is actually going to low-ball him 'til the end.

 

[HanSolo]

I don't know man. I seem to remember some Buffalo fans saying if Lindholm wasn't signed within the first two weeks of free agency, he would be tendered an offer sheet by Buffalo for sure.

 

[Djp]

Here's my theory.

The "market" has been set for young D coming of ELCs on 6-year terms (Rielly $5M, Jones $5.4M, Maatta $4.1M).

However, I think that the Ducks, Jets and Sabres are likely trying to get Lindholm, Trouba and Ristolainen signed to longer deals (7 or 8 years). It's likely harder to pin down that value at this stage and maybe each GM / agent is waiting to see if one of the deals gets done to set a precedent.

I don't think buffalo is doing that....they are going to be a tight cap team so they don't want to waste cap space.

Ristolainen has yet proven he is a #1 yet. Do you want to pay him that money and he isn't a dominant number 1...see Myers.

I think buffalo is wanting to sign Risto to a 3 yr bridge deal at a very nice rate ($4M cap hit). Then he gets the number 1 Dman contract if he can prove what he is.

 

[broman]

Skambud is a hard way to express oneself in Swedish, as you say, our culture is very modest and centred on fair treatment. How i interpret that phrase is that he's not happy with the offer he has received so far.

"Kanske lite snålare" is also a typical Swedish that means "they are cheap", because if you call out someone for being cheap "snål" without the sugar coating "kanske lite" in front is a very aggressive way of expressing yourself in Swedish.
If one reads between the lines, he’s not happy so far with the negotiations, BUT he thinks that they probably will reach a deal that both parties will think is fair.

OK I will accept that coming from a native. Swedish is my third language at best, anyway.

 

[Heraldic]

I don't know man. I seem to remember some Buffalo fans saying if Lindholm wasn't signed within the first two weeks of free agency, he would be tendered an offer sheet by Buffalo for sure.

Lindholm could as well have been tendered an offersheet.

He might have even multiple offersheets in front of him. He might as well be waiting to B.Murray give comparable deal. And if it actually seems that B.Murray is not going to give it, he just signs an offersheet. At this moment he is not in a rush to make any decisions - unless his priority is to get out of Anaheim. And I doubt that, even if he actually ends up signing an offersheet.

 

[Heraldic]

I think buffalo is wanting to sign Risto to a 3 yr bridge deal at a very nice rate ($4M cap hit). Then he gets the number 1 Dman contract if he can prove what he is.

T.Murray has explicitly said that they are looking for a long term deal.

 

[Nordic*]

Hasn't it almost become an unwritten rule among GMs, that you don't offer sheet?

Especially star players? When was the last time it happened?

 

[CorgisPer60]

Rasmus Rustolainen remains unsigned and nobody says a word

but when Hampus Lindholm is brought up, everyone loses their minds

Nice feeling, isn't it? Welcome to the club; there are sandwiches and coffee on the table over there.

Hasn't it almost become an unwritten rule among GMs, that you don't offer sheet?

Especially star players? When was the last time it happened?

In the last 5 years, there were 2 offer sheets: Ryan O'Reilly from the Flames (to potentially hilarious results) and Shea Weber from the Flyers. The last one that actually worked was the Dustin Penner one that Edmonton threw at the Ducks.