Half way Norris vote

[Rabid Ranger]

Karlsson's point totals are impressive but Fox is significantly better in his own zone/overall. He'll be in the conversation, especially as his points creep up, The other thing to keep in mind is the voters don't always reward "historic" point totals for d-men. We saw that with Mike Green, John Carlson, and Roman Josi (last year). The likes of Dahlin, Morrissey, and Makar will also be under consideration.

 

[ElLeetch]

Indeed I have, they’re elite Dmen, EK is something else this season.

He definitely is 'something else' because he certainly isn't a defenseman.

10+1 will still equal the same as 7+4.

EKs offensive impact is so major that it pretty much allows for him to be shit defensively and still have a strong positive impact on his team. His xGF percentages are almost on par with Fox, despite being on a much worse team and with worse defense. Games can be impacted in more than one way, that's why all-offense McDavid is the best player in the world and not Patrice Bergeron. It's not always about "a DeFensEmAn hAs onE jOb".

I still think Adam Fox is a better defenseman than Erik Karlsson, but shitting on EK because his defensive game isn't as strong is just a matter of not wanting to admit how above everyone else he is when it comes to offense.

You understand this is an award for a DEFENSEMAN, yes? "Strong impact to his team" is an argument for the Hart or Lindsay, not the Norris.

 

[Regal]

He definitely is 'something else' because he certainly isn't a defenseman.



You understand this is an award for a DEFENSEMAN, yes? "Strong impact to his team" is an argument for the Hart or Lindsay, not the Norris.

Defenseman is a position not a description. The Norris is for the defenseman who is the best overall at the position, regardless of how much defense is involved

 

[Raspewtin]

I understand Dahlin and Karlsson, but Morrissey?

he has some of the worst defensive metrics in the league for D this year.

 

[Buck Naked]

You understand this is an award for a DEFENSEMAN, yes? "Strong impact to his team" is an argument for the Hart or Lindsay, not the Norris.

Bring me the definition of what a real defenseman is then, please.

 

[MCR74]

He definitely is 'something else' because he certainly isn't a defenseman.



You understand this is an award for a DEFENSEMAN, yes? "Strong impact to his team" is an argument for the Hart or Lindsay, not the Norris.

Take away Karlsson's offensive impact and what do you get? A beer leaguer D man who wouldn't crack most NHL lineups. To Karlsson fans, it's all about points because they've rarely seen him do anything else.

 

[MadeUpName]

Fox is the most complete D in the NHL.

 

[Buck Naked]

Take away Karlsson's offensive impact and what do you get? A beer leaguer D man who wouldn't crack most NHL lineups. To Karlsson fans, it's all about points because they've rarely seen him do anything else.

Yes. Take away the thing that he's the best in the world at at his position and then start comparing him to other players. What a worthless argument. I'm a little bit mad at Karlsson for the ways he hurt you though.. Not nice.

 

[MCR74]

Yes. Take away the thing that he's the best in the world at at his position and then start comparing him to other players. What a worthless argument. I'm a little bit mad at Karlsson for the ways he hurt you though.. Not nice.

Right on cue. That didn't take long.

No, Worthless is Karlsson at actually playing his position, the argument stands.

As for comparing him to other players, I'm sure I could dig up plenty of threads where you fanboys compared him to Lidstrom, Orr, etc.

 

[Buck Naked]

Right on cue. That didn't take long.

No, Worthless is Karlsson at actually playing his position, the argument stands.

As for comparing him to other players, I'm sure I could dig up plenty of threads where you fanboys compared him to Lidstrom, Orr, etc.

You go ahead and dig all you want and you'll see that I'm far from a Karlsson fan boy. I'm not a Pejorative Slur either though and am capable of thinking objectively.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

EK all the way

 

[MCR74]

You go ahead and dig all you want and you'll see that I'm far from a Karlsson fan boy. I'm not a Pejorative Slur either though and am capable of thinking objectively.

It doesn't mean what you think it means. Nice try though.

Anyways, who cares? Karlsson will be golfing in April, and his point totals won't have helped the team any further.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

10+1 will still equal the same as 7+4.

EKs offensive impact is so major that it pretty much allows for him to be shit defensively and still have a strong positive impact on his team. His xGF percentages are almost on par with Fox, despite being on a much worse team and with worse defense. Games can be impacted in more than one way, that's why all-offense McDavid is the best player in the world and not Patrice Bergeron. It's not always about "a DeFensEmAn hAs onE jOb".

I still think Adam Fox is a better defenseman than Erik Karlsson, but shitting on EK because his defensive game isn't as strong is just a matter of not wanting to admit how above everyone else he is when it comes to offense.

Threw out his career there hasn't been many years where he's vastly outperformed tha bad he is on defense with the good he is on offense. How many times has he finished middle or bottom of his team for goals against while putting up big numbers offensively? I mean if you give as much as you get, how do you get a bunch of trophies for it? He's a high risk player that tends to give the opponents opportunities almost as much as he puts up points. Then as a coach you have to come up with a scheme of four guys playing a system and one defenseman doing basically what he wants. I've never been a fan of that.

 

[Buck Naked]

It doesn't mean what you think it means. Nice try though.

Anyways, who cares? Karlsson will be golfing in April, and his point totals won't have helped the team any further.

No, it means exactly what it means. Karlsson used to play for Frölunda. Any player who ever put on a pair of skates with that jersey on is automatically a player who I deeply hate. Yet I can put that aside when I see the way he performs and be real with the way he's playing. I don't let my hate cloud my judgement about his skills.

 

[MCR74]

No, it means exactly what it means. Karlsson used to play for Frölunda. Any player who ever put on a pair of skates with that jersey on is automatically a player who I deeply hate. Yet I can put that aside when I see the way he performs and be real with the way he's playing. I don't let my hate cloud my judgement about his skills.

I never knocked his offensive skils. I know he's good at putting the puck in the net. The guy can't defend for shit, simple as that.

I hope the Sharks lift his Norris in celebration.

 

[ElLeetch]

Bring me the definition of what a real defenseman is then, please.

Hockey Defenseman

1. "A defenseman is a position in hockey. Unlike forwards, the defenseman is a key player in a team’s ability to block goals and apply pressure in the defensive zone. It is up to the defensemen to help the goalie and prevent shots on goal."

AKA, things he doesnt do.

 

[MCR74]

Hockey Defenseman

1. "A defenseman is a position in hockey. Unlike forwards, the defenseman is a key player in a team’s ability to block goals and apply pressure in the defensive zone. It is up to the defensemen to help the goalie and prevent shots on goal."

AKA, things he doesnt do.

 

[Buck Naked]

Hockey Defenseman

1. "A defenseman is a position in hockey. Unlike forwards, the defenseman is a key player in a team’s ability to block goals and apply pressure in the defensive zone. It is up to the defensemen to help the goalie and prevent shots on goal."

AKA, things he doesnt do.

Of course he does. He's one of the top players in the league in zone exits and zone entries. He's one of the best players in the league in the transition game. He's one of the best players in the league when it comes to keeping the puck on his stick. All that contributes to helping the goalie prevent shots on goal. It's actually the best defense there is. Don't let your opponents have the puck.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Fox is the most complete D in the NHL.

Debatable and depends on what you mean by most complete.
Fourth in points this season.
He’s in the top four imo.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Karlsson used to play for Frölunda. Any player who ever put on a pair of skates with that jersey on is automatically a player who I deeply hate.

 

[ElLeetch]

Of course he does. He's one of the top players in the league in zone exits and zone entries. He's one of the best players in the league in the transition game. He's one of the best players in the league when it comes to keeping the puck on his stick. All that contributes to helping the goalie prevent shots on goal. It's actually the best defense there is. Don't let your opponents have the puck.

He is a career -80. He's not very good at what you say he does.

 

[MCR74]

He is a career -80. He's not very good at what you say he does.

Here comes the "+/- is not a good stat" argument...

 

[rangersfansince08]

Here comes the "+/- is not a good stat" argument...

Normally I would agree. But Karlsson is pretty consistently a negative. his defense sucks. He gives as much as he scores. Norris should be Dahlin or Fox (probably in that order)..

 

[Romang67]

Here comes the "+/- is not a good stat" argument...

Good stat is subjective. I'm sure there are people out there with a vested interest in measuring the count of goals for and against while on the ice on even strength, the power play, empty net situations, and other various situations that make it a difficult to decipher stat.

And for that small group of people, we have exactly the stat they would want!

The issue is other people who think +/- measures something it doesn't measure.

 

[Crease]

EK is having a special season, when you factor in injuries, personal tragedy, and where he is in his career. I think the writers will vote for him. Is he actually better than Fox, Makar and whoever else is in the discussion? I don't know. But I think he'll get it.