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Half way Norris vote

Who will win the Norris?

  • Erik Karlsson

    Votes: 303 45.8%

  • Morrissey

    Votes: 80 12.1%

  • Fox

    Votes: 64 9.7%

  • Dahlin

    Votes: 177 26.7%

  • Other..

    Votes: 38 5.7%
  • Total voters
    662
Sabresruletheschool said:
Here's another fun fact. The Sabres have four less games played that has to be made up and Dahlin's only ten points behind Karlsson. A couple of big nights and he's right there with him as far as offense production while being a vastly better all around .defenseman
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Here’s another fun fact: Dahlin is 12 points behind Thompson on his own team while Karlsson is 14 points ahead of #2 on his team. Dahlin is partly (absolutely not entirely but partly) a passenger on Tage’s production. Karlsson also has almost the double amount of Dahlin’s even strength points (40 to 22) which means that Dahlin gets a lot more of those passenger PP assists that Dmen typically get with great snipers such as TNT on their PP being red hot. Dahlin is not close to Karlsson offensively this season. Is he all that much better defensively? Not enough to make up for it IMO.
 
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Ben White said:
Here’s another fun fact: Dahlin is 12 points behind Thompson on his own team while Karlsson is 14 points ahead of #2 on his team. Dahlin is partly (absolutely not entirely but partly) a passenger on Tage’s production. Karlsson also has almost the double amount of Dahlin’s even strength points (40 to 22) which means that Dahlin gets a lot more of those passenger PP assists that Dmen typically get with great snipers such as TNT on their PP being red hot. Dahlin is not close to Karlsson offensively this season. Is he all that much better defensively? Not enough to make up for it IMO.
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Karlsson also gets to play 60 minutes of garbage time every night while Dahlin is trying to lead his squad to the playoffs.
 
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The Crypto Guy said:
Can someone post the fancy stats so we can see how they have been playing defensively?
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download (18).png

download (19).png

download (20).png

download (21).png
 
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Ben White said:
Here’s another fun fact: Dahlin is 12 points behind Thompson on his own team while Karlsson is 14 points ahead of #2 on his team. Dahlin is partly (absolutely not entirely but partly) a passenger on Tage’s production. Karlsson also has almost the double amount of Dahlin’s even strength points (40 to 22) which means that Dahlin gets a lot more of those passenger PP assists that Dmen typically get with great snipers such as TNT on their PP being red hot. Dahlin is not close to Karlsson offensively this season. Is he all that much better defensively? Not enough to make up for it IMO.
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:laugh: Dahlin is the Sabres' best player. Also, unlike Karlsson, he actually plays defense.
 
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Karlsson has one of the worst goals against per 60 on his team and doesn't play the PK. Yes, he's great offensively, but if he were playing a tighter game defensively, the offensive numbers would drop.

Fox by contrast has one of the best goals against per 60 on his team, and plays over 2 minutes of SH time per game. Dahlin is also on the lower-end for his team in terms of goals against per 60 (not quite as good as Fox), and plays 1:44 of SH time per game.

I'd go with one of Fox or Dahlin. Certainly leading the league in points for defenceman is one of the components of evaluating who should win the Norris and who is the best defenceman, but there's also more to it than just going to nhl.com, sorting by points, and calling it a day. These guys are DEFENCEmen, and Karlsson isn't good defensively.
 
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Other, just because Noah Dobson deserves recognition. Among the leader in goals from defensemen and is playing on an extremely inconsistent Islanders team.
 
miscs75 said:
Other, just because Noah Dobson deserves recognition. Among the leader in goals from defensemen and is playing on an extremely inconsistent Islanders team.
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Sorry but any Dman playing 20:50 MPG and is 23rd in Dman scoring and arguably not even the best Dman on his team shouldn't win the halfway Norris, or frankly be in the top 10 really.
 
I voted Dahlin since I expect Karlsson to slow down quite a lot while Dahlin to almost keep his phase.

I think Makar will be in the top 3 once the season is over. Don't know about Morresey and Fox. In the end I think it ends up something like this:

1. Dahlin, 91p
2. Makar, 86p
3. Karlsson, 93p
4. Fox, 82p
5. Morrisey, 79p
 
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wetcoast said:
Sorry but any Dman playing 20:50 MPG and is 23rd in Dman scoring and arguably not even the best Dman on his team shouldn't win the halfway Norris, or frankly be in the top 10 really.
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I’m sure he’ll get a 3rd place vote from someone. He’s also 22. Just let him keep progressing his game and he’ll be in the talk within a year or two at this rate.
 
Machinehead said:
Dahlin's chart is actually pretty good to be fair.

Fox's is elite.
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Machinehead said:
Dahlin's chart is actually pretty good to be fair.

Fox's is elite.
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You also have to factor in how they do compared to the rest of the team and goaltending. It seems to me that a team with bad goaltending would have the players have a higher GA/60. But compared to the team, Dahlin's defense has been pretty darn good.
 
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Sabresruletheschool said:
You also have to factor in how they do compared to the rest of the team and goaltending. It seems to me that a team with bad goaltending would have the players have a higher GF/60. But compared to the team, Dahlin's defense has been pretty darn good.
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How does bad goaltending result in a higher gf/60.
Having Bad goaltending doesn’t mean you score more.
 
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613Leafer said:
Karlsson has one of the worst goals against per 60 on his team and doesn't play the PK. Yes, he's great offensively, but if he were playing a tighter game defensively, the offensive numbers would drop.

Fox by contrast has one of the best goals against per 60 on his team, and plays over 2 minutes of SH time per game. Dahlin is also on the lower-end for his team in terms of goals against per 60 (not quite as good as Fox), and plays 1:44 of SH time per game.

I'd go with one of Fox or Dahlin. Certainly leading the league in points for defenceman is one of the components of evaluating who should win the Norris and who is the best defenceman, but there's also more to it than just going to nhl.com, sorting by points, and calling it a day. These guys are DEFENCEmen, and Karlsson isn't good defensively.
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This never gets old at HF. Referring to semantics is the worst argument ever. “Oh the point GUARD with the must assists in the NBA should focus more on GUARDING” jeez… Karlsson’s underlying numbers don’t even suggest he’s a bad defender btw, GA is a horrible stat to rely on when evaluating defense.
 
Would vote for Karlsson. The team's such garbage.

And no, I'm not buying the "it's an advantage that his team is so bad"-argument.
 
miscs75 said:
Other, just because Noah Dobson deserves recognition. Among the leader in goals from defensemen and is playing on an extremely inconsistent Islanders team.
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Aka Other just because you like the Islanders. Karlson is on pace for over 100 points and plays in all situations.
 
bert said:
Aka Other just because you like the Islanders. Karlson is on pace for over 100 points and plays in all situations.
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Makar won it over 100 point Roman Josi last year. Then again Cale Makar is a freak of nature.
 
miscs75 said:
Makar won it over 100 point Roman Josi last year. Then again Cale Makar is a freak of nature.
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Karlsson is on pace for 108 points. Dobson is on pace for 48.... He will never be Makar or Karlsson for that matter. Great player not remotely close to that tier. So you shouldnt have voted for other is my point.
 
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