Half way Norris vote

[Ben White]

Here's another fun fact. The Sabres have four less games played that has to be made up and Dahlin's only ten points behind Karlsson. A couple of big nights and he's right there with him as far as offense production while being a vastly better all around .defenseman

Here’s another fun fact: Dahlin is 12 points behind Thompson on his own team while Karlsson is 14 points ahead of #2 on his team. Dahlin is partly (absolutely not entirely but partly) a passenger on Tage’s production. Karlsson also has almost the double amount of Dahlin’s even strength points (40 to 22) which means that Dahlin gets a lot more of those passenger PP assists that Dmen typically get with great snipers such as TNT on their PP being red hot. Dahlin is not close to Karlsson offensively this season. Is he all that much better defensively? Not enough to make up for it IMO.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Here’s another fun fact: Dahlin is 12 points behind Thompson on his own team while Karlsson is 14 points ahead of #2 on his team. Dahlin is partly (absolutely not entirely but partly) a passenger on Tage’s production. Karlsson also has almost the double amount of Dahlin’s even strength points (40 to 22) which means that Dahlin gets a lot more of those passenger PP assists that Dmen typically get with great snipers such as TNT on their PP being red hot. Dahlin is not close to Karlsson offensively this season. Is he all that much better defensively? Not enough to make up for it IMO.

Karlsson also gets to play 60 minutes of garbage time every night while Dahlin is trying to lead his squad to the playoffs.

 

[Ben White]

Karlsson also gets to play 60 minutes of garbage time every night while Dahlin is trying to lead his squad to the playoffs.

What a generationally vague and weak argument. What’s your point even?

 

[Machinehead]

Can someone post the fancy stats so we can see how they have been playing defensively?

 

[tsujimoto74]

Here’s another fun fact: Dahlin is 12 points behind Thompson on his own team while Karlsson is 14 points ahead of #2 on his team. Dahlin is partly (absolutely not entirely but partly) a passenger on Tage’s production. Karlsson also has almost the double amount of Dahlin’s even strength points (40 to 22) which means that Dahlin gets a lot more of those passenger PP assists that Dmen typically get with great snipers such as TNT on their PP being red hot. Dahlin is not close to Karlsson offensively this season. Is he all that much better defensively? Not enough to make up for it IMO.

Dahlin is the Sabres' best player. Also, unlike Karlsson, he actually plays defense.

 

[613Leafer]

Karlsson has one of the worst goals against per 60 on his team and doesn't play the PK. Yes, he's great offensively, but if he were playing a tighter game defensively, the offensive numbers would drop.

Fox by contrast has one of the best goals against per 60 on his team, and plays over 2 minutes of SH time per game. Dahlin is also on the lower-end for his team in terms of goals against per 60 (not quite as good as Fox), and plays 1:44 of SH time per game.

I'd go with one of Fox or Dahlin. Certainly leading the league in points for defenceman is one of the components of evaluating who should win the Norris and who is the best defenceman, but there's also more to it than just going to nhl.com, sorting by points, and calling it a day. These guys are DEFENCEmen, and Karlsson isn't good defensively.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Karlsson


Darling


Makar probably ends up 3rd. Guy is playing a ton of minutes and I expect the scoring will turn up for the Avalanche as they fight for the playoffs.

 

[miscs75]

Other, just because Noah Dobson deserves recognition. Among the leader in goals from defensemen and is playing on an extremely inconsistent Islanders team.

 

[Machinehead]

I went with Dahlin but it's bananas that Fox has fewer votes than Morrissey.

 

[wetcoast]

Other, just because Noah Dobson deserves recognition. Among the leader in goals from defensemen and is playing on an extremely inconsistent Islanders team.

Sorry but any Dman playing 20:50 MPG and is 23rd in Dman scoring and arguably not even the best Dman on his team shouldn't win the halfway Norris, or frankly be in the top 10 really.

 

[ElLeetch]

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looks like Fox is the only one who knows how to even play D.

 

[Machinehead]

looks like Fox is the only one who knows how to even play D.

Dahlin's chart is actually pretty good to be fair.

Fox's is elite.

 

[snu22fint]

I voted Dahlin since I expect Karlsson to slow down quite a lot while Dahlin to almost keep his phase.

I think Makar will be in the top 3 once the season is over. Don't know about Morresey and Fox. In the end I think it ends up something like this:

1. Dahlin, 91p
2. Makar, 86p
3. Karlsson, 93p
4. Fox, 82p
5. Morrisey, 79p

 

[miscs75]

Sorry but any Dman playing 20:50 MPG and is 23rd in Dman scoring and arguably not even the best Dman on his team shouldn't win the halfway Norris, or frankly be in the top 10 really.

I’m sure he’ll get a 3rd place vote from someone. He’s also 22. Just let him keep progressing his game and he’ll be in the talk within a year or two at this rate.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Dahlin's chart is actually pretty good to be fair.

Fox's is elite.

Dahlin's chart is actually pretty good to be fair.

Fox's is elite.

You also have to factor in how they do compared to the rest of the team and goaltending. It seems to me that a team with bad goaltending would have the players have a higher GA/60. But compared to the team, Dahlin's defense has been pretty darn good.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You also have to factor in how they do compared to the rest of the team and goaltending. It seems to me that a team with bad goaltending would have the players have a higher GF/60. But compared to the team, Dahlin's defense has been pretty darn good.

How does bad goaltending result in a higher gf/60.
Having Bad goaltending doesn’t mean you score more.

 

[Ben White]

Karlsson has one of the worst goals against per 60 on his team and doesn't play the PK. Yes, he's great offensively, but if he were playing a tighter game defensively, the offensive numbers would drop.

Fox by contrast has one of the best goals against per 60 on his team, and plays over 2 minutes of SH time per game. Dahlin is also on the lower-end for his team in terms of goals against per 60 (not quite as good as Fox), and plays 1:44 of SH time per game.

I'd go with one of Fox or Dahlin. Certainly leading the league in points for defenceman is one of the components of evaluating who should win the Norris and who is the best defenceman, but there's also more to it than just going to nhl.com, sorting by points, and calling it a day. These guys are DEFENCEmen, and Karlsson isn't good defensively.

This never gets old at HF. Referring to semantics is the worst argument ever. “Oh the point GUARD with the must assists in the NBA should focus more on GUARDING” jeez… Karlsson’s underlying numbers don’t even suggest he’s a bad defender btw, GA is a horrible stat to rely on when evaluating defense.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

How does bad goaltending result in a higher gf/60.
Having Bad goaltending doesn’t mean you score more.

Was supposed to be GA. Fixed it

 

[3B]

Hampus Lindholm deserves consideration

 

[ijuka]

Would vote for Karlsson. The team's such garbage.

And no, I'm not buying the "it's an advantage that his team is so bad"-argument.

 

[ijuka]

Hampus Lindholm deserves consideration

That would be the type of a Norris that Doughty got over Karlsson.

 

[bert]

Other, just because Noah Dobson deserves recognition. Among the leader in goals from defensemen and is playing on an extremely inconsistent Islanders team.

Aka Other just because you like the Islanders. Karlson is on pace for over 100 points and plays in all situations.

 

[pegcity]

I'm always surprised at Jared Spurgeon. Every year he flies under the radar.

Morrissey had a bad game yesterday, or else he would be higher.

Makar ran away with this stat last year.

 

[miscs75]

Aka Other just because you like the Islanders. Karlson is on pace for over 100 points and plays in all situations.

Makar won it over 100 point Roman Josi last year. Then again Cale Makar is a freak of nature.

 

[bert]

Makar won it over 100 point Roman Josi last year. Then again Cale Makar is a freak of nature.

Karlsson is on pace for 108 points. Dobson is on pace for 48.... He will never be Makar or Karlsson for that matter. Great player not remotely close to that tier. So you shouldnt have voted for other is my point.