Proposal: Habs rebuild

[HabsCode]

None of those numbers are correct. Where did you pull them from?

Two past seasons if we include the current season = 2020-2021 and 2021-2022. His numbers are correct.

 

[ole ole]

None of those numbers are correct. Where did you pull them from?

You are correct. Sorry.
In the previous 2 seasons he was 25 points more effective than Coleman while playing in 1 less game.. PERIOD.
Add this season in and it becomes 34 point more effective. That's quite a difference.

 

[Sparky93]

From Montreal? How many players do they have to offer that you would move him for?

From Montreal, Suzuki but that doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him for a young player that wasn't a center.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Two past seasons if we include the current season = 2020-2021 and 2021-2022. His numbers are correct.

That is not the 2 previous seasons though. That is last season and the current season. I am not talking about the current season as it is pretty clear that Coleman is snakebitten in this small 29 game sample size

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You are correct. Sorry.
In the previous 2 seasons he was 25 points more effective than Coleman while playing in 1 less game.. PERIOD.
Add this season in and it becomes 34 point more effective. That's quite a difference.

Thank you for correcting yourself but you still chose to ignore that Toffoli had 20 PP points to Coleman's 4

 

[ole ole]

That is not the 2 previous seasons though. That is last season and the current season. I am not talking about the current season as it is pretty clear that Coleman is snakebitten in this small 29 game sample size

Again.

In the previous 2 seasons he was 25 points more effective than Coleman while playing in 1 less game.. PERIOD.
Add this season in and it becomes 34 point more effective. That's quite a difference.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

From Montreal, Suzuki but that doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him for a young player that wasn't a center.

Do you have some examples? Assuming Caufield is not an available option at all

 

[ole ole]

Thank you for correcting yourself but you still chose to ignore that Toffoli had 20 PP points to Coleman's 4

Is that Toffoli's fault.
Now your trying to hold something against him because he's a better point producer?
Toffoli is easily the more offensive player as the stats easily back it up no matter how you try to put a twist on it.

 

[HabsCode]

That is not the 2 previous seasons though. That is last season and the current season. I am not talking about the current season as it is pretty clear that Coleman is snakebitten in this small 29 game sample size

Toffoli is snake bitten too this season.

Here is an offensive stats there won't be semantic fight about:

Toffoli averages 49 pts over a 82 games season career wise.
Coleman averages 33 pts over a 82 games season career wise.

Anyway this is a moot point, Calgary is clearly not interested in the offer I made so we are arguing for nothing. Just that I think your Coleman >>> Toffoli statement was exaggerated but your have your right to your opinion.

 

[glenbuis]

You can only retain on 3 contracts so I'd leave those spots open for Price, Gallagher, and Petry. Nice idea on Anderson but that blocks us from moving guys with less value and lots of term left.

if we retain on chariot this season, at the end of the year that spot opens up again wouldnt it ?

 

[ole ole]

Toffoli is snake bitten too this season.

Here is an offensive stats there won't be semantic fight about:

Toffoli averages 49 pts over a 82 games season career wise.
Coleman averages 33 pts over a 82 games season career wise.

Anyway this is a moot point, Calgary is clearly not interested in the offer I made so we are arguing for nothing. Just that I think your Coleman >>> Toffoli statement was exagerated but your have your right to your opinion.

You are 100% correct.

 

[HabsCode]

if we retain on chariot this season, at the end of the year that spots opens up again wouldnt it ?

Correct.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Is that Toffoli's fault.
Now your trying to hold something against him because he's a better point producer?
Toffoli is easily the more offensive player as the stats easily back it up no matter how you try to put a twist on it.

Im not holding anything against him, I am saying that you are comparing a player who got 20 PP points with prime powerplay minutes to one who does not play powerplay. That's like me using Coleman's exceptional PK stats to Toffoli's even though Toffoli's PK time is extremely limited in comparison.

So I choose to eliminate both special teams stats and focus on their effectiveness at EV.

I posted this above but will again, as you can see by their CF and CA Toffoli is a more effective offensively than Coleman at EV but significantly less effective defensively

 

[Sparky93]

Do you have some examples? Assuming Caufield is not an available option at all

No, I wouldn't trade him for Cautield but would consider it for Kakko, maybe even Tomasino. Basically, a potential upgrade or similar caliber, young NHL ready RW. The point is, I don't think the only possibility is a center.

 

[waitin425]

Sell whatever we can for picks.

Build around...

Suzuki
Caufield
Romy
Guhle
Wright
Bedard

 

[ole ole]

Sell whatever we can for picks.

Build around...

Suzuki
Caufield
Romy
Guhle
Wright
Bedard

We don't have Wright or Bedard.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

No, I wouldn't trade him for Cautield but would consider it for Kakko, maybe even Tomasino. Basically, a potential upgrade or similar caliber, young NHL ready RW. The point is, I don't think the only possibility is a center.

Tomasino is a center FYI. And No he would very likely never be moved for another young prospect. You are overvaluing what way a player holds their stick

 

[ole ole]

Im not holding anything against him, I am saying that you are comparing a player who got 20 PP points with prime powerplay minutes to one who does not play powerplay. That's like me using Coleman's exceptional PK stats to Toffoli's even though Toffoli's PK time is extremely limited in comparison.

So I choose to eliminate both special teams stats and focus on their effectiveness at EV.

I posted this above but will again, as you can see by their CF and CA Toffoli is a more effective offensively than Coleman at EV but significantly less effective defensively

See i don't believe in nitpicking stats just to try to make my player look better.
I take everything in account, Period, to make a comparison.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

See i don't believe in nitpicking stats just to try to make my player look better.
I take everything he does on the ice, Period, to make a comparison.

But just looking at points is a poor way of evaluating a players effectiveness. It really takes away from a players defensive game. Maybe Jfresh's most recent player cards on the 2 players would be a better way of showing the 2 compared

 

[Sparky93]

Tomasino is a center FYI. And No he would very likely never be moved for another young prospect. You are overvaluing what way a player holds their stick

Tomasino might be a C someday but right now he's playing RW in the NHL. As far as handedness is concerned, it is a team need and I'm not the one offering up a 1st + 2nd for Toffoli.

 

[HabsCode]

But just looking at points is a poor way of evaluating a players effectiveness. It really takes away from a players defensive game. Maybe Jfresh's most recent player cards on the 2 players would be a better way of showing the 2 compared

At the end of the day, Toffoli has the highest WAR% tho (even if it's a slim difference). And Toffoli faces better competition.

Hence why saying that Coleman >>> Toffoli is kind of dramatic.

An argument could be made that they have similar value, but Coleman doesn't outclass Toffoli.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Tomasino might be a C someday but right now he's playing RW in the NHL. As far as handedness is concerned, it is a team need and I'm not the one offering up a 1st + 2nd for Toffoli.

I am offering 1st and 2nd for Toffoli because I consider him an effective Sutter type player that would be worth adding to the roster at that price, how does that have anything to do with swapping Pelletier for a similar caliber prospect? Being realistic Pelletier would never be traded in a prospect swap, he would only be moved for a player that dramatically effects the teams chances now (ie Eichel). That goes the same for the other teams and their prospects. Anyone asking about acquiring Pelletier will be trying to sell NHL regulars now, not prospects. So for the sake of argument tell me what potentially available NHL regulars you would move him for right now

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

At the end of the day, Toffoli has the highest WAR% tho (even if it's a slim difference). And Toffoli face better competition.

Hence why saying that Coleman >>> Toffoli is kind of dramatic.

An argument could be made that they have similar value, but Coleman doesn't outclass Toffoli.

I will admit that the Coleman >>> Toffoli statement was an exaggeration but that doesn't change how lopsided that offer was

 

[waitin425]

We don't have Wright or Bedard.

Ummm....I know...was just saying

 

[HabsCode]

I will admit that the Coleman >>> Toffoli statement was an exaggeration but that doesn't change how lopsided that offer was

Fair point.