Proposal: Habs rebuild

[Drew311]

Habs are hosting the 2022 draft.
Habs are *rebuilding* , they want and need first picks for this year.

Players that could help contenders this year for late first picks.
Also Habs have 3 x 3rd picks 2022 that could be put in there .
Could also add some prospect like Norlinder , Ylonen , Harris, Tuck , Struble, Mailloux

Petry
Chariot
Toffoli
Armia
Price @ 6 mil
Hoffman
Poehling
Drouin
Savard

Witch team could use these guys for picks.

Not a lot of appealing players on that list. Not ideal for trying to get high picks.
Also, get over it Habs fans...you're stuck with Price for the long haul.

 

[Sparky93]

I am offering 1st and 2nd for Toffoli because I consider him an effective Sutter type player that would be worth adding to the roster at that price, how does that have anything to do with swapping Pelletier for a similar caliber prospect? Being realistic Pelletier would never be traded in a prospect swap, he would only be moved for a player that dramatically effects the teams chances now (ie Eichel). That goes the same for the other teams and their prospects. Anyone asking about acquiring Pelletier will be trying to sell NHL regulars now, not prospects. So for the sake of argument tell me what potentially available NHL regulars you would move him for right now

I already gave you examples. For instance if for some reason the Rangers couldn't come to terms with Kakko next year, I think any of our top 3 prospects would be available. Just for the record, even as a Flames fan, I'd give Toffoli an edge in value over Coleman. The price of offense is always higher, not only in cap hit but also in cost to acquire. I wouldn't say significantly more valuable but I would expect the Flames to add possibly a 2nd, in a Toffoli/Coleman deal

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I already gave you examples. For instance if for some reason the Rangers couldn't come to terms with Kakko next year, I think any of our top 3 prospects would be available. Just for the record, even as a Flames fan, I'd give Toffoli an edge in value over Coleman. The price of offense is always higher, not only in cap hit but also in cost to acquire. I wouldn't say significantly more valuable but I would expect the Flames to add possibly a 2nd, in a Toffoli/Coleman deal

And as a Bolts fan I think you are undervaluing how effective Coleman is based on poor production this season

I don't consider a Kakko trade for futures realistic at all

 

[Sparky93]

And as a Bolts fan I think you are undervaluing how effective Coleman is based on poor production this season

I don't consider a Kakko trade for futures realistic at all

I hope you're right about Coleman, definitely don't hate the player but he's got a long ways to go, in order to live up to the price tag.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I hope you're right about Coleman, definitely don't hate the player but he's got a long ways to go, in order to live up to the price tag.

Well he is shooting at 4.8% this year so yeah I would say he's definitely producing well below expected

 

[Gaud]

If the Habs can get a second rounder for Lehkonen they better take it. I love his work ethic but keep in mind he was a healthy scratch for some games in the playoffs last year. He has very limited offensive skills. A player like him can be found on the free agency market in the summer or replaced from within the organization.

it's too bad really; i dont think i ever saw a guy get so many opportunities to score and miss. And then he gets a goal that sends the habs to the finals

 

[Habs Halifax]

As much as I dislike the franchise and their fans, I actually liked the make up of the team. It just lacks star power.

A fans willingness to pay a player is often quite different than management's. Myself, I'd be happy paying Lucic 3-3.5, but we just paid Coleman 4.9 and Lucic has as many goals as Coleman has points, up to now. How much would you be happy paying Anderson, given his very similar production to Lucic?

The reason I bring up Anderson is because like Lucic, points aren't all this type of player provides. I very much enjoy having a guy on the roster that can go toe to toe with anyone in league, especially having some smaller stars.

To answer your question, I don't want Toffoli. I feel he's too comparable to what we already have and if cap wasn't an issue, I'd prefer Anderson. I'd run a Gaudreau-Lindholm-Anderson top line and move Tkachuk down to play with Mangiapane, on the 2nd line. I don't feel as though paying a premium to lose Lucic, just to acquire Toffoli, significantly improves the team now, or in the future, especially come playoffs time.

Like I said, Flames probably decline but where we don't agree is on the trade value. I don't think it's far off and I've provided my context. Nothing more we can add to it to change either of minds.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Lucic was a free agent last summer, I suspect he’d sign something like 1 x $3.5mm or 2 x $6mm. What do you think? Power forwards that hit and fight have some value. The Avs gave Seattle a 4th round pick for some goon that can barely get up and down the ice. But he fights and he hits guys hard. His deterrence is interestingly helpful.

lucic is far better than MacDermid.

I think Lucic would have a hard time getting $2M-$3M range. Wrong side of 30 and his skating is well below average.

 

[Habs Halifax]

if we retain on chariot this season, at the end of the year that spot opens up again wouldnt it ?

Yes, we can retain on anybody who is a pending UFA this year cause we are not moving all of Price, Gallagher, and Petry at this deadline. So yeah, retaining on Chiarot to help the other team be cap compliant is in play

 

[Sparky93]

I think Lucic would have a hard time getting $2M-$3M range. Wrong side of 30 and his skating is well below average.

I doubt it. He's arguably the toughest in the league. He'll be 35 before his next contract so might even hang them up but if he was a free agent last summer, a young, up and coming team, like the Devils, would've given him that without hesitation. The leadership and insurance is worth every penny.

 

[glenbuis]

Yes, we can retain on anybody who is a pending UFA this year cause we are not moving all of Price, Gallagher, and Petry at this deadline. So yeah, retaining on Chiarot to help the other team be cap compliant is in play

gallagher is the guy to unload this trade deadline . not giving him the C and his claim already to be on a winner makes him the best bet this year . we should wait until price and petry's value returns next year . Even asking price to waive his nmc under the circumstances reeks of a lack of class . he'll return more when he's healthy anyway . limit the retention on gallagher to as little as possible. straight up for monohan maybe .
obviously chariot and kulak are to go to

 

[Sparky93]

gallagher is the guy to unload this trade deadline . not giving him the C and his claim already to be on a winner makes him the best bet this year . we should wait until price and petry's value returns next year . Even asking price to waive his nmc under the circumstances reeks of a lack of class . he'll return more when he's healthy anyway . limit the retention on gallagher to as little as possible. straight up for monohan maybe .
obviously chariot and kulak are to go to

Monahan is cheaper, still more productive and has one year left. There'd have to be some seriously heavy retention, to even consider a straight up swap. Moving a guy, in year 1 of his fat retirement contract may not be considered classy, in some circles either. That contract is going no where, anytime soon.

 

[Habs Halifax]

gallagher is the guy to unload this trade deadline . not giving him the C and his claim already to be on a winner makes him the best bet this year . we should wait until price and petry's value returns next year . Even asking price to waive his nmc under the circumstances reeks of a lack of class . he'll return more when he's healthy anyway . limit the retention on gallagher to as little as possible. straight up for monohan maybe .
obviously chariot and kulak are to go to

We might not be able to move any of those 3 guys at the deadline. It will take some unique circumstance that develops. Possible but unlikely.

If we move them (and when), I'm after futures. Monahan for Gallagher would not be the target of mine. My plan would be to keep guys like Drouin, Byron, Lehkonen, Edmundson in rebuild years and play youth while we also test their potential. Then we do our homework on our own top 5 picks cause we will be bottom 5 and then also see how the futures do with what we get for Price, Gallagher, Petry.

Basically, it's a similar approach like Patch. We wait till we get the return that we want and value. Many fans were upset that we didn't trade Patch at the deadline.

My strategy would be to tank for 3 years and stock pile assets Suzuki and younger and just watch them grow together.

 

[glenbuis]

Monahan is cheaper, still more productive and has one year left. There'd have to be some seriously heavy retention, to even consider a straight up swap. Moving a guy, in year 1 of his fat retirement contract may not be considered classy, in some circles either. That contract is going no where, anytime soon.

oh i'm sorry . i was under the impression that monohan wasn't what the flames were looking for in the playoffs .

 

[glenbuis]

We might not be able to move any of those 3 guys at the deadline. It will take some unique circumstance that develops. Possible but unlikely.

If we move them (and when), I'm after futures. Monahan for Gallagher would not be the target of mine. My plan would be to keep guys like Drouin, Byron, Lehkonen, Edmundson in rebuild years and play youth while we also test their potential. Then we do our homework on our own top 5 picks cause we will be bottom 5 and then also see how the futures do with what we get for Price, Gallagher, Petry.

Basically, it's a similar approach like Patch. We wait till we get the return that we want and value. Many fans were upset that we didn't trade Patch at the deadline.

My strategy would be to tank for 3 years and stock pile assets Suzuki and younger and just watch them grow together.

i feel the same way . monohan would be jettisoned out fairly quickly . getting rid of gallagher's contract without retention is the goal here because of the term.

also drouin byron and maybe even lehkonen should be gone by next year's deadline. addition by subtraction

 

[Habs Halifax]

i feel the same way . monohan would be jettisoned out fairly quickly . getting rid of gallagher's contract without retention is the goal here because of the term.

also drouin byron and maybe even lehkonen should be gone by next year's deadline. addition by subtraction

I get the difficulty to move Gallagher with his term left. Honestly, Not sure they bite on that and probably ask us to either retain or add something due to Gallagher being overpaid and on the wrong side of 30. Personally, I rather retain and get futures instead.

I'm not desperate to move Drouin, Byron, and Lehkonen. Depends on what we are offered I guess. We will need 25+ and 30+ players on our roster during a rebuild. Can't trade them all.

For those worried about retention... think of it this way. We had $8M - $10M of unused cap space for 2+ years after we let Markov and Radulov go. Those were bubble playoff years and we survived.

What is $10M - $12M of retention worth (Retaining on Price, Gallagher, Petry)?
* 3 First round picks (Likely 16+)
* Grade A prospects (Maybe 3)
* Other picks or Grade B prospects

Adding this to what we already have and what picks we would get is of high value to me.

 

[expy]

i feel the same way . monohan would be jettisoned out fairly quickly . getting rid of gallagher's contract without retention is the goal here because of the term.

also drouin byron and maybe even lehkonen should be gone by next year's deadline. addition by subtraction

Drouin the most important to move, the other two players are actually good fits and don't take up 5.5m.

 

[glenbuis]

Drouin the most important to move, the other two players are actually good fits and don't take up 5.5m.

byron at 3.4 per year is not a good fit

 

[glenbuis]

I get the difficulty to move Gallagher with his term left. Honestly, Not sure they bite on that and probably ask us to either retain or add something due to Gallagher being overpaid and on the wrong side of 30. Personally, I rather retain and get futures instead.

I'm not desperate to move Drouin, Byron, and Lehkonen. Depends on what we are offered I guess. We will need 25+ and 30+ players on our roster during a rebuild. Can't trade them all.

For those worried about retention... think of it this way. We had $8M - $10M of unused cap space for 2+ years after we let Markov and Radulov go. Those were bubble playoff years and we survived.

What is $10M - $12M of retention worth (Retaining on Price, Gallagher, Petry)?
* 3 First round picks (Likely 16+)
* Grade A prospects (Maybe 3)
* Other picks or Grade B prospects

Adding this to what we already have and what picks we would get is of high value to me.

good luck with that . molson will not be retaining 10-12 million .

 

[expy]

byron at 3.4 per year is not a good fit

Plays his role better than the more expensive guy.

Lehkonen I’d not move at all. Drouin is a must get rid of, and Byron can go both ways.

 

[glenbuis]

Plays his role better than the more expensive guy.

Lehkonen I’d not move at all. Drouin is a must get rid of, and Byron can go both ways.

well at least we agree on getting rid of drouin. next years trade deadline and 50 % retention should get us something

 

[TBF1972]

missing the point

 

[Habs Halifax]

good luck with that . molson will not be retaining 10-12 million .

Molson quotes...

"I'm not afraid of anything"

"I will have questions, lots of questions"

I don't know what Molson would accept as a rebuild strategy. Time will tell

 

[gianni]

What's the asking price on Joel Edmundson? Any clue what his undisclosed injury is?

 

[topshelf15]

Just losing their previous scouting staff,should have them drafting much better...Timmons was pretty Meh