Proposal: Habs rebuild

[Hector Salamanca]

If the Habs can get a second rounder for Lehkonen they better take it. I love his work ethic but keep in mind he was a healthy scratch for some games in the playoffs last year. He has very limited offensive skills. A player like him can be found on the free agency market in the summer or replaced from within the organization.

Having hum scratch wasnt a good décision at Any point

 

[Hector Salamanca]

I wonder what we can get for Anderson if we retain like 1,5m prolly alot and i Do it.

Value-production-utility vs salary, lehkonen Might be the best Winger on the habs at this point

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wonder what we can get for Anderson if we retain like 1,5m prolly alot and i Do it.

Value-production-utility vs salary, lehkonen Might be the best Winger on the habs at this point

You can only retain on 3 contracts so I'd leave those spots open for Price, Gallagher, and Petry. Nice idea on Anderson but that blocks us from moving guys with less value and lots of term left.

 

[ole ole]

My point was more its not necessarily what "Calgary is offering" It was what I am fine offering

It seems now that we couldn't Lucic straight up for Toffoli. : Now isn't that something.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It seems now that we couldn't Lucic straight up for Toffoli. : Now isn't that something.

Some good context...

Toffoli as a Pending UFA:
* 2nd rounder
* Tyler Madden (37 pts in 27 NCAA games with 19 goals that year).
* Conditional 4th

Lucic being involved who is no doubt a negative value contract with that AAV. He would have a very hard time getting $2M- $3M as a UFA this summer.

Toffoli as a good top 6F who is on a value contract for the next 2 years after this one expires.

The Flames probably decline cause they are content with Lucic and they prefer not to trade futures for Toffoli but the trade value is not horrible when you consider Toffoli is on a value contract as a top 6F and Lucic is included in the deal. Flames fans can try to pump up Lucic and devalue Toffoli all they want.

 

[Sparky93]

Some good context...

Toffoli as a Pending UFA:
* 2nd rounder
* Tyler Madden (37 pts in 27 NCAA games with 19 goals that year).
* Conditional 4th

Lucic being involved who is no doubt a negative value contract with that AAV. He would have a very hard time getting $2M- $3M as a UFA this summer.

Toffoli as a good top 6F who is on a value contract for the next 2 years after this one expires.

The Flames probably decline cause they are content with Lucic and they prefer not to trade futures for Toffoli but the trade value is not horrible when you consider Toffoli is on a value contract as a top 6F and Lucic is included in the deal. Flames fans can try to pump up Lucic and devalue Toffoli all they want.

Absolutely no fan of any team, outside the Habs has said this is even remotely close lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

Absolutely no fan of any team, outside the Habs has said this is even remotely close lol

Have fun on that party bandwagon if you wish. This holds little value to me. I'm not the type to fall for popularity

 

[Sparky93]

Have fun on that party bandwagon if you wish. This holds little value to me. I'm not the type to fall for popularity

It's so terrible that even Oiler fans are saying it. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's so terrible that even Oiler fans are saying it. That pretty much sums it up.

According to your standards it does. Go with it if you wish but I steer clear of popular bandwagons. What you may be overlooking is how the Habs are hated on HF boards. The context I provided in the post you replied to is solid. Flames likely decline but the value is not horrible. I stand firm. Do you want confirmation from the Leafs as well that this is horrible? I'm sure you will get it

Toffoli got a 2nd and a B+ prospect who was well over pt/game in the NCAA at the time of the trade to the Canucks. By including Lucic who is not worth half his AAV, that requires a bit more than without Lucic involved. And lets not ignore that Toffoli as a pending UFA got a 2nd and B+ where today he is on a value contract for the rest of this year and two more seasons.

You disagree but according to my evaluation standards and the context I provided, it's not a horrible trade value

 

[Sparky93]

According to your standards it does. Go with it if you wish but I steer clear of popular bandwagons. What you may be overlooking is how the Habs are hated on HF boards. The context I provided in the post you replied to is solid. Flames likely decline but the value is not horrible. I stand firm. Do you want confirmation from the Leafs as well that this is horrible? I'm sure you will get it

Toffoli got a 2nd and a B+ prospect who was well over pt/game in the NCAA at the time of the trade to the Canucks. By including Lucic who is not worth half his AAV, that requires a bit more than without Lucic involved. And lets not ignore that Toffoli as a pending UFA got a 2nd and B+ where today he is on a value contract for the rest of this year and two more seasons.

You disagree but according to my evaluation standards and the context I provided, it's not a horrible trade value

Considering this is the same logic that believes Josh Anderson is valuable, with 37 points in 77 games, signed for 5 more years at 5.5 million but Lucic with 36 points in 86 games, somehow has severe negative value, signed for one more year, at 5.25 million. Yes, it's completely ridiculous. This pretty much sums it up. The value is absolutely horrendous for the Flames.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Considering this is the same logic that believes Josh Anderson is valuable, with 37 points in 77 games, signed for 5 more years at 5.5 million but Lucic with 36 points in 86 games, somehow has severe negative value, signed for one more year, at 5.25 million. This pretty much sums it up. The value is absolutely horrendous for the Flames.

Anderson has nothing to do with this conversation. Got anything new that is of value? If not, we can end the chat now cause it's steering into the ditch.

One question for you? What is a fair AAV for Lucic for what he is providing with his time with the Flames? Like what would you give him for a contract if he was a UFA this summer? I'm curious cause the answer to this reveals how much he is overpaid today. Then add that value difference on top of what Toffoli got for the Kings to the Canucks and then add the value difference on a pending UFA vs a value contract with 2 seasons leaf after this season. I don't believe I'm being unreasonable on this

 

[Sparky93]

Anderson has nothing to do with this conversation. Got anything new that is of value? If not, we can end the chat now cause it's steering into the ditch

It literally started in the ditch with absolutely terrible evaluation of player worth. Typical Habs fan nonsense.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It literally started in the ditch with absolutely terrible evaluation of player worth. Typical Habs fan nonsense.

I'll leave you be in your Habs Hate bandwagon party. However, go back and read the post again. I added a question after you replied.... if you care to discuss in good faith without any Habs Hate narratives. If you want to continue that narrative, don't waste your or my time... That's not going to lead to anything of value

 

[Sparky93]

I'll leave you be in your Habs Hate bandwagon party. And go back and read the post again. I added a question after you replied.... if you care to discuss in good faith

As much as I dislike the franchise and their fans, I actually liked the make up of the team. It just lacks star power.

A fans willingness to pay a player is often quite different than management's. Myself, I'd be happy paying Lucic 3-3.5, but we just paid Coleman 4.9 and Lucic has as many goals as Coleman has points, up to now. How much would you be happy paying Anderson, given his very similar production to Lucic?

The reason I bring up Anderson is because like Lucic, points aren't all this type of player provides. I very much enjoy having a guy on the roster that can go toe to toe with anyone in league, especially having some smaller stars.

To answer your question, I don't want Toffoli. I feel he's too comparable to what we already have and if cap wasn't an issue, I'd prefer Anderson. I'd run a Gaudreau-Lindholm-Anderson top line and move Tkachuk down to play with Mangiapane, on the 2nd line. I don't feel as though paying a premium to lose Lucic, just to acquire Toffoli, significantly improves the team now, or in the future, especially come playoffs time.

 

[McJedi]

It seems now that we couldn't Lucic straight up for Toffoli. : Now isn't that something.

That’s not true. Calgary would jump all over that offer.

But the difference between Lucic and Toffoli certainly isn’t the equivalent of two first round picks. That’s crazy. Lucic isn’t remotely that bad and Toffoli isn’t the opposite equivalent of amazing he’d need to be in order to make this OP offer pencil.

Tyler Madden isn’t turning into much of an NHL prospect either. He’s a rather middling AHL player.

 

[McJedi]

Anderson has nothing to do with this conversation. Got anything new that is of value? If not, we can end the chat now cause it's steering into the ditch.

One question for you? What is a fair AAV for Lucic for what he is providing with his time with the Flames? Like what would you give him for a contract if he was a UFA this summer? I'm curious cause the answer to this reveals how much he is overpaid today. Then add that value difference on top of what Toffoli got for the Kings to the Canucks and then add the value difference on a pending UFA vs a value contract with 2 seasons leaf after this season. I don't believe I'm being unreasonable on this

If Lucic was a free agent last summer, I suspect he’d sign something like 1 x $3.5mm or 2 x $6mm. What do you think? Power forwards that hit and fight have some value. The Avs gave Seattle a 4th round pick for some goon that can barely get up and down the ice. But he fights and he hits guys hard. His deterrence is interestingly helpful.

lucic is far better than MacDermid.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

It seems now that we couldn't Lucic straight up for Toffoli. : Now isn't that something.

If you are referring to the other thread I have zero interest in paying Zary to move Lucic. I would much rather keep Lucic as an effective depth player for a cup run and acquire Toffoli separately

 

[HabsCode]

If you are referring to the other thread I have zero interest in paying Zary to move Lucic. I would much rather keep Lucic as an effective depth player for a cup run and acquire Toffoli separately

Toffoli , Perreault, 2nd 2022 (practically a 1st) for Coleman, Pelletier(or Zary), 2022 1st?

 

[ole ole]

If you are referring to the other thread I have zero interest in paying Zary to move Lucic. I would much rather keep Lucic as an effective depth player for a cup run and acquire Toffoli separately

I'm referring to the Flames poster that said he wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli which is a total joke.

 

[Sparky93]

Toffoli , Perreault, 2nd 2022 (practically a 1st) for Coleman, Pelletier(or Zary), 2022 1nd?

Yeah, just leave the Flames out of it. Coleman isn't getting traded 30 games into a 6 year deal and nobody wants Toffoli that badly. I'm not sure what a 1nd is supposed to be but the difference between Toffoli and Coleman, historically isn't a top prospect alone.

 

[Sparky93]

I'm referring to the Flames poster that said he wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli which is a total joke.

Every fan base has a couple of them, as these threads show, some fan bases just have more than their fair share. Of course the Flames would do that but the Canadiens wouldn't. If Toffoli was a UFA, bare minimum the two 2nds would be on the table, maybe even the 1st but he simply doesn't fit into our long term cap situation.

 

[HabsCode]

Yeah, just leave the Flames out of it. Coleman isn't getting traded 30 games into a 6 year deal and nobody wants Toffoli that badly. I'm not sure what a 1nd is supposed to be but the difference between Toffoli and Coleman, historically isn't a top prospect alone.

I don't think Flames are good trading partner for the Habs anyway since they don't have a lot of cap space and don't really have a contract that could act as a cap dump, unless we retain on Toffoli I don't see how that could work.

 

[Sparky93]

I don't think Flames are good trading partner for the Habs anyway since they don't have a lot of cap space and don't really have a contract that could act as a cap dump, unless we retain on Toffoli I don't see how that could work.

I agree and the cost of retaining two years of Toffoli would make the price too high, considering the potential rentals on the market this year.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toffoli , Perreault, 2nd 2022 (practically a 1st) for Coleman, Pelletier(or Zary), 2022 1st?

Awful for the Flames.

Coleman >>> Toffoli, Pelletier/Zary >>> Perreault + 2nd, 1st >>>>>>>>> nothing

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I'm referring to the Flames poster that said he wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli which is a total joke.

IMO just ignore that and move on, no reason to entertain them