Value of: Habs First Pick

[Go Wings]

About Detroit ?
If they really want a player at #6

Habs : #6
for
Detroit : #11 + NYI first pick #19

The only player I would even consider that for is Michkov.

 

[Michoulicious]

If Bratt doesn't sign a contract before the draft I wonder if the Habs would be up for trading a pick + for Bratt who is an RFA.

Habs negotiate a long term contract with Bratt and get a player that they would hope their 6th OV pick would turn into and the Devils get something from a bad situation and hopefully get a good player in a couple years on their ELC to help with the cap situation during their playoff/cup window.

Bratt is small. Bratt will cost a fortune. Bratt has an history of tough negociations with NJ. Bratt is a winger.

He has no future in NJ with the Meier acquisition/9+ millions extension coming, but he has no future in Montreal either who's already filled with small wingers in their top 9 (Caufield, RHP) and system (Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Richard, etc.).

Not interested, and certainly not for a top 10 picks (right now #6) in 2023, especially not +.

I'd be willing to trade that pick for a top end D prospect like Hughes or Nemec. That's about it.

 

[Xirik]

Bratt is small. Bratt will cost a fortune. Bratt has an history of tough negociations with NJ. Bratt is a winger.

He has no future in NJ with the Meier acquisition/9+ millions extension coming, but he has no future in Montreal either who's already filled with small wingers in their top 9 (Caufield, RHP) and system (Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Richard, etc.).

Not interested, and certainly not for a top 10 picks (right now #6) in 2023, especially not +.

I'd be willing to trade that pick for a top end D prospect like Hughes or Nemec. That's about it.

Yes fitting Caufield's new contract and Bratts would be hard next year I agree with that but I don't understand the rest of what you said.

Bratt is better then RHP and will probably be better then Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Richard, when they are fully developed. You keep the best player and figure out if the lesser smaller players fit with the team. You are thinking totally opposite.

the 6th overall pick is definitely valuable as any player you pick would be on an ELC but its a gamble to say that they would end up as good as Bratt.

The Devils rebuiild puzzle is almost complete and now its all about finding the final couple pieces. This is why the Bratt contract negotiations are so hard. All the pieces have already been placed and its hard to find a fit. The Habs meanwhile have just started the rebuild process and have lots of area's to fill in its way easier for the Habs to find a fit for Bratt,

I think think that such a trade would be fair to both teams and the + would probably be a late pick or Edmundson as depth defenseman with only a year on their contract are always needed for the playoffs.

The Devils definitely have the cap space to fit both Bratt and Meier the GM stated so, Its up to Bratt to decide if he wants to be a part of Devils long term.

If not then basically every team in the league will want to trade for him and the Devils will try to get the best deal.

 

[ole ole]

Dubois, Stanley, Jets 1st for Habs 1st, Florida 1st, Dach (or similar center potential player)

No chance in hell the Habs would be this stupid. Just terrible for the Habs.

 

[ole ole]

The only player I would even consider that for is Michkov.

And i wouldn't trade Michkov for that offer.

Yes fitting Caufield's new contract and Bratts would be hard next year I agree with that but I don't understand the rest of what you said.

Bratt is better then RHP and will probably be better then Farrell, Roy, Mesar, Richard, when they are fully developed. You keep the best player and figure out if the lesser smaller players fit with the team. You are thinking totally opposite.

the 6th overall pick is definitely valuable as any player you pick would be on an ELC but its a gamble to say that they would end up as good as Bratt.

The Devils rebuiild puzzle is almost complete and now its all about finding the final couple pieces. This is why the Bratt contract negotiations are so hard. All the pieces have already been placed and its hard to find a fit. The Habs meanwhile have just started the rebuild process and have lots of area's to fill in its way easier for the Habs to find a fit for Bratt,

I think think that such a trade would be fair to both teams and the + would probably be a late pick or Edmundson as depth defenseman with only a year on their contract are always needed for the playoffs.

The Devils definitely have the cap space to fit both Bratt and Meier the GM stated so, Its up to Bratt to decide if he wants to be a part of Devils long term.

If not then basically every team in the league will want to trade for him and the Devils will try to get the best deal.

Rather keep the 6th OA pick over Bratt.

 

[Mersss]

Dubois, Stanley, Jets 1st for Habs 1st, Florida 1st, Dach (or similar center potential player)

Habs won't give anything of value for Dubois and will just sign him in 1 years.

Or we'd offer our 2025/2026 1st

If Bratt doesn't sign a contract before the draft I wonder if the Habs would be up for trading a pick + for Bratt who is an RFA.

Habs negotiate a long term contract with Bratt and get a player that they would hope their 6th OV pick would turn into and the Devils get something from a bad situation and hopefully get a good player in a couple years on their ELC to help with the cap situation during their playoff/cup window.

Why tho? Habs don't trade a top6 pick for another small forward.

 

[Mersss]

The Devils definitely want to keep Bratt but his agent has been playing hardball for two years and hasn't even gotten back to the GM Fitzgerald about the recent offer he gave. The GM is also trying hard to instill the bruins way of thinking of "if everyone takes a bit of a paycut we can be a better team" Obviously not everyone wants to buy into that and that's totally fair. Fitz doesn't want to pay any player more then Hughes at $8 million which is a hard stance to take.

I'm sure there would be other trade partners for Bratt but in any Bratt trade the Devils would end up the losers. Trading for a high 1st pick has the chance of getting back the most value but is also a gamble.

A Caufield-Suzuki-Bratt line or a Slafkovsky-Dach-Bratt line does sound pretty cool.

Habs won't trade any 1st rd pick before 2025-2026. So 2025 1st for Bratt.. no need if the price is higher than that.

 

[Go Wings]

And i wouldn't trade Michkov for that offer.


Rather keep the 6th OA pick over Bratt.

There is no one in the draft beyond the top 3 and Mitchov that Montreal is going to get a decent deal for if they want to trade that pick. Teams are not going to trade 2 first round picks to move up 4 spots etc

 

[ole ole]

There is no one in the draft beyond the top 3 and Mitchov that Montreal is going to get a decent deal for if they want to trade that pick. Teams are not going to trade 2 first round picks to move up 4 spots etc

If you don't think the Habs could get a decent deal for the 6th OA pick in the upcoming draft than i don't know what else to say but .

 

[Go Wings]

If you don't think the Habs could get a decent deal for the 6th OA pick in the upcoming draft than i don't know what else to say but .

From who exactly? There are only a few teams that have multiple first round picks and I doubt any of them are trading multiple picks. As for trying to find a 24 year first line player for the 6th pick dream on.

 

[ole ole]

From who exactly? There are only a few teams that have multiple first round picks and I doubt any of them are trading multiple picks. As for trying to find a 24 year first line player for the 6th pick dream on.

Dream on if you don't think the 6th OA pick could net a decent deal like you STATED.

 

[Go Wings]

Dream on if you don't think the 6th OA pick could net a decent deal like you STATED.

Thanks for the clarification on who exactly was going to make that deal.
You're definitely a habs fan.

 

[Ligue]

From who exactly? There are only a few teams that have multiple first round picks and I doubt any of them are trading multiple picks. As for trying to find a 24 year first line player for the 6th pick dream on.

Every year guys get traded and some come up as a bit of a surprise. Ottawa did get Debrincat last year for like the 7th and a 2nd rd pick in a weaker draft. Not saying that will happen just disputing that last part of your argument.

 

[FerrisRox]

Dach is a C. Suzuki is a C. Dubois is a C. Too many Cs. Not enough Ws in the top six.

Dach was outstanding playing the wing with Suzuki and Caufield.

I have zero interest in the Canadiens trading for Dubois. In fact, I would really lose faith in the Canadiens brass if they dealt off one of their first round picks to acquire him.

But if they inked him as a free agent the following year, I don't think it would make Dach in anyway redundant. They would just shift him to the wing and let him use his size on the wall with Suzuki and Caufield.

I think its highly likely that one of their two 2023 1st round picks will be used on a centre.

 

[Number 57]

Dach for Dubois, really? That's not happening.

15th overall for Dubois is more like it. You can have Dvorak and Anderson in the deal if you add some later picks and maybe prospects like Heinola or Stanley, or Justin Barron's brother

 

[McJedi]

Dach for Dubois, really? That's not happening.

15th overall for Dubois is more like it. You can have Dvorak and Anderson in the deal if you add some later picks and maybe prospects like Heinola or Stanley, or Justin Barron's brother

Dvorak won’t have any value to Peg. He’s still an expensive 3C there. His contract is unfortunate on any team that wants efficient allocation of AAV.

Anderson isn’t a great fit either because he’s not a C and Dubois is. I’d save him for the Habs roster or for a trade to a team that has greater need for a physical winger. This isn’t a huge need for Peg.

So adding either to such a trade doesn’t or shouldn’t move the needle for Peg. They’d just be there for AAV matching.

But if Dvorak had to come over, I’d demand the Habs attach a sweetener for dumping that bad contract. So something like Dubois for 15th OA + Dvorak + Barron or Mesar.

15th overall isn’t enough for Dubois straight up. Dvorak has no value at his AAV. So Habs would need to add something to dump that 3C contract.

 

[FerrisRox]

Dach for Dubois, really? That's not happening.

15th overall for Dubois is more like it. You can have Dvorak and Anderson in the deal if you add some later picks and maybe prospects like Heinola or Stanley, or Justin Barron's brother

I would be absolutely furious if the Canadiens traded that 15th overall in a deal for Dubois but I would absolutely lose my mind if they gave up Anderson in the deal too.

If Dubois wants to sign in Montreal as a free agent, great, but trading for him is idiotic and a total waste of assets.

Dvorak won’t have any value to Peg. He’s still an expensive 3C there. His contract is unfortunate on any team that wants efficient allocation of AAV.

Anderson isn’t a great fit either because he’s not a C and Dubois is. I’d save him for the Habs roster or for a trade to a team that has greater need for a physical winger. This isn’t a huge need for Peg.

So adding either to such a trade doesn’t or shouldn’t move the needle for Peg. They’d just be there for AAV matching.

But if Dvorak had to come over, I’d demand the Habs attach a sweetener for dumping that bad contract. So something like Dubois for 15th OA + Dvorak + Barron or Mesar.

15th overall isn’t enough for Dubois straight up. Dvorak has no value at his AAV. So Habs would need to add something to dump that 3C contract.

Christian Dvorak has "no value" at $4.4 million?

Are you serious with this?

 

[McJedi]

I'd rather rot towards the bottom of the standings next year and try to grab him as a UFA. Winnipeg is likely to get a similar or better return from another team if they want to ship him off as a TDL rental. We're not at the point where we should be adding impact veterans at the cost of picks and prospects yet. Other habs fans feel differently.

You guys operate under this assumption he’s a done deal to the Habs after next season. Maybe he is, but maybe he isn’t.

If you’re right and he’s a done deal, then I’d agree to just wait it out.

If it isn’t. It’s risky. Habs need to make a move at some point because they are learning how to lose and that isn’t fixed by losing more.

 

[McJedi]

I would be absolutely furious if the Canadiens traded that 15th overall in a deal for Dubois but I would absolutely lose my mind if they gave up Anderson in the deal too.

If Dubois wants to sign in Montreal as a free agent, great, but trading for him is idiotic and a total waste of assets.



Christian Dvorak has "no value" at $4.4 million?

Are you serious with this?

Absolutely. I’m surprised you don’t see it. What team wants a 3C at that AAV? No contender will have that available cap space to inefficiency spend on him. Unless they are dumping a bad contract they don’t want back on the Habs.

Try coming up with a Dvorak trade to a contender. Put it out there and you’ll see it gets shredded by that fan base if they trade only picks or prospects from that team to the Habs. Why? Because they don’t want his contract before you’d factor in the cost they won’t want to pay either.

Here is a trade the Avs don’t make. Dvorak for a 7th rounder in 2025. Why? Because the Avs don’t want a $4.5mm 3C thru 2025 with NTC.

No rebuilding team would send the Habs assets for a guy like Dvorak because he won’t fit their timeline.

If Dvorak had trade value, Hughes would have moved him already. Hughes didn’t sit out the deadline by choice. The Habs didn’t have anything the market valued enough for Hughes to pull the trigger.

 

[FerrisRox]

Absolutely. I’m surprised you don’t see it. What team wants a 3C at that AAV? No contender will have that available cap space to inefficiency spend on him. Unless they are dumping a bad contract they don’t want back on the Habs.

Try coming up with a Dvorak trade to a contender. Put it out there and you’ll see it gets shredded by that fan base if they trade only picks or prospects from that team to the Habs. Why? Because they don’t want his contract before you’d factor in the cost they won’t want to pay either.

Here is a trade the Avs don’t make. Dvorak for a 7th rounder in 2025. Why? Because the Avs don’t want a $4.5mm 3C.

No rebuilding team would send the Habs assets for a guy like Dvorak because he won’t fit their timeline.

If Dvorak had trade value, Hughes would have moved him already. Hughes didn’t sit out the deadline by choice. The Habs didn’t have anything the market valued enough for Hughes to pull the trigger.

I don't want to come up with a Dvorak trade because I don't want to trade him.

I think it's bizarre that you think $4.4 million is an issue for a third line centre that plays a solid two way game and can move up and down your lineup as need be. I have no issue, at all, in paying a 3rd line utility centre $4.4 million.

 

[McJedi]

I don't want to come up with a Dvorak trade because I don't want to trade him.

I think it's bizarre that you think $4.4 million is an issue for a third line centre that plays a solid two way game and can move up and down your lineup as need be. I have no issue, at all, in paying a 3rd line utility centre $4.4 million.

Because your team is a lottery team with lots of holes in the roster and some upcoming cap space with Drouin falling off the books.

Good teams don’t have $4.5mm/per in cap space to waste on a 3C. They are spending to the cap on better players or more efficiently in much cheaper bottom six guys playing closer to $1mm per that take the same-ish minutes and role as Dvorak would.

Go try to fit Dvorak on a contender. There isn’t one that can layer him in for the next 2.25 seasons without sending back a contract to the Habs. And probably one with term you won’t want.

 

[FerrisRox]

Because your team is a lottery team with lots of holes in the roster and some upcoming cap space with Drouin falling off the books.

Good teams don’t have $4.5mm/per in cap space to waste on a 3C. They are spending to the cap on better players or more efficiently in much cheaper bottom six guys playing closer to $1mm per that take the same-ish minutes and role as Dvorak would.

So, to be clear, you think all the contenders this year are spending $1 million on their third line centres?

Is that what you are suggesting here?

 

[McJedi]

So, to be clear, you think all the contenders this year are spending $1 million on their third line centres?

Is that what you are suggesting here?

Most are spending less than $4.5mm on their 3C. And he’s not an elite 3C either. Just a run off the mill middle six C in his prime. With NTC kicking in July 1st.

It’s not an intriguing contract. It’s a problematic one.

If it had value, a contender would have traded for him. Especially with Monahan and Toews not getting traded at the deadline. There were not many Cs available this year. And Dvorak didn’t find a new home? Why? Because the market for him is tiny and he’s more valuable to the Habs than anyone else.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You guys operate under this assumption he’s a done deal to the Habs after next season. Maybe he is, but maybe he isn’t.

If you’re right and he’s a done deal, then I’d agree to just wait it out.

If it isn’t. It’s risky. Habs need to make a move at some point because they are learning how to lose and that isn’t fixed by losing more.

Thanks for the wise words, guy who doesn't care how another team spends their draft capital.

I think you should head down to the dealership and buy yourself a brand new f350, those things sure are handy for pulling a trailer. I know you already have a 2010 that is fine for your purposes, and your relative is likely going to give you his 2019 in a few years, but it's better to have a new one, now.

 

[McJedi]

Thanks for the wise words, guy who doesn't care how another team spends their draft capital.

Spend it however you’d like. If Dubois is only going to consider the Habs in UFA, then I’d just wait it out too.

That’s clearly your assumption. That Dubois is in the bag. In that scenario, don’t do anything but wait until July 2024.