Salary Cap: Gun to Your Head

[Ianturnedbull]

Recency Bias is making people say Yes to Nylander and No to Marner. My Dude, the Dude Abides. This poll sucks if you ask me. No one has stepped out of their emotional attachments to vote for the most realistic player to trade. No one is taking that gun to their head seriously.

“Sometimes You Eat The Bear… And Sometimes The Bear, Well, He Eats You"​

-The Big Lebowski

 

[notbias]

Apparently Marner's camp was willing to do 8 x 8 but dubas galaxy brained the whole thing. Dubas was so stupid that he made sure he signed tavares for 11 AAV and then Marner's production exploded playing next to Tavares.

Wasn't Marner on pace for 93 points next to Kadri? If I recall correctly, nothing exploded...

It's interesting to see how many people are obsessed with Dubas and then complain about people bringing him up...

 

[ACC1224]

Marner has outproduced Nylander in the playoffs while being miles better defensively. I know that isn't the popular narrative around here, but it is what it is..

Puck over the glass 5 years ago, devastating

 

[Gary Nylund]

Recency Bias is making people say Yes to Nylander and No to Marner. My Dude, the Dude Abides. This poll sucks if you ask me. No one has stepped out of Their emotional attachments to vote for the most realistic player to trade. No one is taking that gun to their head seriously.

Marner disappearing in the biggest playoff games is why losing him doesn't seem like such a catastrophe for me and that's anything but a recent development.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Pick over the glass 5 years ago, devastating

You must have posted this a hundred times by now. It's been explained to you so many times that no it wasn't 5 years ago and no, it wasn't just one time, as a matter of fact there was a period of a number of years where he took almost as many puck over glass penalties in the playoffs (6) as the rest of the team combined. And what's your response, you just post the same nonsense again.

Serious question - this has been explained to you by a number of different people, why do you persist on making yourself look clueless? The numbers have been posted, you can look up the stats yourself, why do you never learn?

 

[GoonieFace]

Marner has outproduced Nylander in the playoffs while being miles better defensively. I know that isn't the popular narrative around here, but it is what it is..

Those points he scored in those blowout games against Tampa sure helped, but Willy is the best playoff performer plain and simple

 

[Dekes For Days]

As if this guy isn't using "recency bias" to trash Treliving' after his first season with the team 20 games in

What are you even talking about? I haven't "trashed" anybody. I evaluate Treliving based on his entire tenure, and have said the same things whether we're on a winning streak or losing streak. That's literally the opposite of recency bias.

I think we've all come across those people life who want to outwardly proclaim how smart they are. Pretty well every time they prove that they aren't nearly as smart as they think they are. Actual smart people never actually bring up such things.

Lol. If you go around falsely accusing people of always being wrong, and in response, they point out their actual historical accuracy, that's not "outwardly proclaiming how smart they are". The only one bringing up such things is you. The rest of us are trying to talk hockey.

Ripped Raanta today because he is an often injured backup but supported the Murray trade all the way to LTIR.

I didn't "rip Raanta". I disproved your claim that Carolina was anchored by "proven goalies". And what I actually called him was "an often injured career tandem goalie/backup, who has hovered around league average since 2017-2018, and is currently having a horrible year", which is an accurate description of him. My statements about Murray have largely been shooting down false and hyperbolic claims, but I'm not sure what he has to do with anything anyway. The only real similarities between them is an injury history, but nobody said that that made a player worthless.

I don't even dislike Raanta. He's a decent option to have for certain situations. He's just not what you claimed.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Those points he scored in those blowout games against Tampa sure helped, but Willy is the best playoff performer plain and simple

Except for production and defensive play, I agree.

The idea that Nylander is some kind of playoff stud is so premature when he has the worst production of the three and is miles worse defensively while also never making it out of the second round. I hope he has an actual big playoff somewhere along the line here. He has the talent for sure, but hasn’t done squat yet.

But Toronto fan group think gotta do Toronto fan group think.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Except for production and defensive play, I agree.

The idea that Nylander is some kind of playoff stud is so premature when he has the worst production of the three and is miles worse defensively while also never making it out of the second round. I hope he has an actual big playoff somewhere along the line here. He has the talent for sure, but hasn’t done squat yet.

But Toronto fan group think gotta do Toronto fan group think.

It's not that Nylander's a playoff stud, it's that once we get to game 5 of the playoffs, Marner disappears and Nylander doesn't.

In the 4 seasons since Marner's 11 million dollar kicked in, Marner has 30 points in the playoffs which is one more than Nylander but considering Nylander has 14 goals to Marner's 5, saying Nylander has worse production is questionable at best. Nylander also doesn't play with Matthews and he didn't get taken off PP1 for no apparent reason last season so when it comes to production, Nylander gets the nod in my book.

It's interesting that you're criticizing Nylander for never making it out of the second round, but not Marner. Can you help me understand why you have Marner ahead of him in this category?

 

[BraveCanadian]

It's not that Nylander's a playoff stud, it's that once we get to game 5 of the playoffs, Marner disappears and Nylander doesn't.

In the 4 seasons since Marner's 11 million dollar kicked in, Marner has 30 points in the playoffs which is one more than Nylander but considering Nylander has 14 goals to Marner's 5, saying Nylander has worse production is questionable at best. Nylander also doesn't play with Matthews and he didn't get taken off PP1 for no apparent reason last season so when it comes to production, Nylander gets the nod in my book.

It's interesting that you're criticizing Nylander for never making it out of the second round, but not Marner. Can you help me understand why you have Marner ahead of him in this category?

You're just regurgitating the same narrative in a different way and trying to move the goalposts. Marner has been a disappointment in the playoffs for the most part. The point is that the narrative that Nylander is the best of the three is a false narrative fans are clinging to. He has been out produced, is buttery soft, doesn't know where his own end is most of the time, and has progressed no further than the other two.

 

[ToneDog]

why would it indicate Shanny blocked a move , especially considering how many moves Dubas made last season

Dubas is a back stabbing weasel with a God complex , only a piece of shit would try to f*** a guy you owe your career too . Shanny or the board didn't offer him an extention and made him dance for his dinner which put him on tilt as witnessed by his meltdown late in the season and his presser.

this had nothing to do with blocking moves like Mirtle was trying to spin , it was all about Dubie's ego

What are you even talking about? I haven't "trashed" anybody. I evaluate Treliving based on his entire tenure, and have said the same things whether we're on a winning streak or losing streak. That's literally the opposite of recency bias.

Lol. If you go around falsely accusing people of always being wrong, and in response, they point out their actual historical accuracy, that's not "outwardly proclaiming how smart they are". The only one bringing up such things is you. The rest of us are trying to talk hockey.

I didn't "rip Raanta". I disproved your claim that Carolina was anchored by "proven goalies". And what I actually called him was "an often injured career tandem goalie/backup, who has hovered around league average since 2017-2018, and is currently having a horrible year", which is an accurate description of him. My statements about Murray have largely been shooting down false and hyperbolic claims, but I'm not sure what he has to do with anything anyway. The only real similarities between them is an injury history, but nobody said that that made a player worthless.

I don't even dislike Raanta. He's a decent option to have for certain situations. He's just not what you claimed.

If Raanta and Andy are not more proven than Sammy and Woll, I can't help you.

 

[Racer88]

There's only 1 real answer. You keep both.

And this board is basically 100% recency bias.

Keep both and get our asses kicked in the first or second round for how many more years?

No, they lost 2 games. Everyone must go. Until they win the next 4 in a row. Then everyone must stay. Until they lose again.

It’s nothing about losing 2 games, that’s a weak narrative, it’s about 5 years worth of playoff failure with this core because of the way it is constructed

 

[Racer88]

Erik Karlsson waived his NMC to go to Pittsburgh last summer. That's off the top of my head since he scored a GWG last night.

Oh snap!!!!

 

[Racer88]

7 pages a great debate but sadly nothing will change until Shanny gets his ass booted out of the ivory tower and the 2 clowns right below him get booted too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You're just regurgitating the same narrative in a different way and trying to move the goalposts. Marner has been a disappointment in the playoffs for the most part. The point is that the narrative that Nylander is the best of the three is a false narrative fans are clinging to. He has been out produced, is buttery soft, doesn't know where his own end is most of the time, and has progressed no further than the other two.

I never said he's the best of the three so looks like you're the one shifting the goalposts.

I'm still waiting for you to help me understand why you're criticizing Nylander for never having advanced past round two and not Marner.

 

[arso40]

There’s no need to compare them other than the money they make and the value they hold we just need to put them in a position to succeed force marner to be magic Mitch put him bacc with Tavares he needs a little tough love Willy’s naturally an athlete but the gap shouldn’t have been closed this fast there’s still another level do Mitch we need him there

 

[GoonieFace]

You're just regurgitating the same narrative in a different way and trying to move the goalposts. Marner has been a disappointment in the playoffs for the most part. The point is that the narrative that Nylander is the best of the three is a false narrative fans are clinging to. He has been out produced, is buttery soft, doesn't know where his own end is most of the time, and has progressed no further than the other two.

He’s been the best of the three in the playoffs, which isn’t really saying much. Define outproduced?

Marner - 47p in 50
Matthews - 44p in 50
Nylander - 40p in 50

Less TOI and less PP time for half the money as well

 

[Gilmour1996]

Why all the historical stats from the distant past?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner = NMC so it could only be Nylander.

Kind of avoiding the question.

Assume Willy signs tomorrow for $11M and Mitch waives his NMC. If you have to keep only one, which is it?

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Let's be realistic here boys, nobody is getting traded. They will hand out raises without getting 8 years in term, the contract structure has been set and it's not changing until the core either retires or chooses to leave at free agency.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Raanta and Andy are not more proven than Sammy and Woll, I can't help you.

Nobody said anything about a tandem of Samsonov and Woll being proven. Woll is a rookie. Of course he's not proven! That's a complete strawman.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's called being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If there's a plan could someone please tell me what it is. Cause I can't make it out. Other than to keep throwing good money after bad.

Overpaying both these guys would be doubling down on stupid.

Or maybe it would be tripling down. Some might even say quadrupling down. I'm not really sure at this point.

Only that it's stupid.

What I do know is that I would hate to be in Treliving's position right now. It doesn't matter what he ends up doing. Guaranteed half the fan base isn't gonna like it either way.

That's what's called being damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[leafs in five]

Those points he scored in those blowout games against Tampa sure helped, but Willy is the best playoff performer plain and simple

this is like when people say that bad drivers cause traffic

 

[ACC1224]

Kind of avoiding the question.

Assume Willy signs tomorrow for $11M and Mitch waives his NMC. If you have to keep only one, which is it?

I’m not a fantasy guy, I prefer reality. In fantasy I’d trade Tavares for McDavid.

 

[ToneDog]

Nobody said anything about a tandem of Samsonov and Woll being proven. Woll is a rookie. Of course he's not proven! That's a complete strawman.

Of course not, they are worried about their football and basketball teams. They also have Brind'Amour behind the bench, a solid D core and proven goalies. We have Keefe, and weak goaltending behind a terrible D.

That was my initial reply to poster comparing the situations in Carolina with Toronto and the behaviour of their fans. I compared, coach, D and goaltending. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough.

I don't know how you define proven, but Andy and Raanta's numbers makes me call them proven. If those two are not proven, you may want to ask Shanny and Tre WTF they are thinking trying to win a SC with a goalie thrown to the curb by Washington and another with 22 NHL games under his belt.

Andy

24 SO

2.58 GAV

286W

126L

52T

0.915 SV%

Raanta

20 SO

2.47 GAV

133W

176L

27T

0.916 SV%