Salary Cap: Gun to Your Head

[notDatsyuk]

I’m not a fantasy guy, I prefer reality. In fantasy I’d trade Tavares for McDavid.

They'd have to throw in a first.

 

[ACC1224]

They'd have to throw in a first.

If it's fantasy make it 2.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Given this whole mess started when Marner bent Dubas over a barrel, you run Marner out of town. Overpaid and over rated. A 3rd liner in the playoffs.

 

[namttebih]

Any examples of someone in his situation waiving? No one has ever provided one

You're right. Under his exact circumstance there isn't much out there. Interesting.

I would assume if there was a lot of negative noise around a player, he would ask for a trade. Not that I would want that to happen here, but if anyone on the team would be sensitive to that sort of redirect I would think that it would be him.

I'm not a fan of Mitch. He's a fantastically skilled player, but I'm not sure if he's a leader that players want to follow. I've met him a few times now and didn't get great vibes from him.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If there's a plan could someone please tell me what it is. Cause I can't make it out.

Profits are up.
There are no problems.
The Leafs exist to make money.

Skating around with loser TikTok logos on helmets is proof enough.

It’s not about winning.

 

[ACC1224]

You're right. Under his exact circumstance there isn't much out there. Interesting.

I would assume if there was a lot of negative noise around a player, he would ask for a trade. Not that I would want that to happen here, but if anyone on the team would be sensitive to that sort of redirect I would think that it would be him.

I'm not a fan of Mitch. He's a fantastically skilled player, but I'm not sure if he's a leader that players want to follow. I've met him a few times now and didn't get great vibes from him.

There has been negative noise around him since his contract was signed. He's immensely popular with his teammates and the vast majority of Leaf fans, I don't think he'd look to leave because of a few.
Good kid but he's not the sharpest marble that's for sure and definitely sensitive.

 

[namttebih]

There has been negative noise around him since his contract was signed. He's immensely popular with his teammates and the vast majority of Leaf fans, I don't think he'd look to leave because of a few.
Good kid but he's not the sharpest marble that's for sure and definitely sensitive.

The question is, is he popular with the clique in the core or with the majority of the team - especially vets coming in.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I really wonder about the maturity level of our core and why guys like O'Reilly choose to move on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The question is, is he popular with the clique in the core or with the majority of the team - especially vets coming in.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I really wonder about the maturity level of our core and why guys like O'Reilly choose to move on.

You are not alone.

 

[ACC1224]

The question is, is he popular with the clique in the core or with the majority of the team - especially vets coming in.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I really wonder about the maturity level of our core and why guys like O'Reilly choose to move on.

I think most do and I think that's a big part of it.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The question is, is he popular with the clique in the core or with the majority of the team - especially vets coming in.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I really wonder about the maturity level of our core and why guys like O'Reilly choose to move on.

Lots of red flags about people not wanting to stay.

It’s just a business from the top down to the players.

Punch in, punch out.

Summers off early every year is a huge bonus working for the Leafs.

 

[namttebih]

I think most do and I think that's a big part of it.

You are not alone.

Giving him the A was a big mistake IMO. He should have just came in and played his game.

If the rumors are true and he demanded it in his contract negotiations, then it was all over before it began.

Voltaire had a wooden shoe, silk slippers theory. It was about civilizations and their rise and fall. An up and coming civilization wears wooden shoes and toughen up and eventually make their way to the top of the heap. Once there they live an "Oriental" life of excess and leisure - the silk slippers phase. This is typically their demise as tougher, wooden shoe wearing civilizations overpower them.

The first time I met Mitch was in his third season at an event. He was literally wearing silk slippers. This is the issue with rewarding the players with huge contracts for regular season success. To me, it appears as though that first line has an ego which is way bigger than their actual achievements when it matters.

Lots of red flags about people not wanting to stay.

It’s just a business from the top down to the players.

Punch in, punch out.

Summers off early every year is a huge bonus working for the Leafs.

Other than Gio, Simmonds and Spezza who are local boys litteraly playing their last games in the league, what other playoff grizzled vet has stayed and bought in after a year?

 

[34]

Marner is a disruption in the locker room. He is toxic. He should be traded.

 

[Trapper]

Here is the question before you delve into the rest.
We know the core: Matthews,Marner,JT,Nylander,Rielly.

Can this core win?
What does this team need to win the Cup now?
Can you get it?
How many pieces is it and what are they? Can it be got in the salary structure or without trading the core?

Once you answer this, you can decide on pieces staying or going.

 

[Arzak]

Here is the question before you delve into the rest.
We know the core: Matthews,Marner,JT,Nylander,Rielly.

Can this core win?
What does this team need to win the Cup now?
Can you get it?
How many pieces is it and what are they? Can it be got in the salary structure or without trading the core?

Once you answer this, you can decide on pieces staying or going.

It's not just about the core itself, it's about the culture . Not giving your all shouldn't be acceptable for anyone.

If we disregard ROR for a moment, it's not a coincidence our additions tend to underperform. Compare it to Boston which can seemingly integrate no names at will.

Trading Marner would go a long way sending the message that there needs to be a shift in accountability .


Easier said than done. We have NMCs all around and you wan't ROR to go and tell Matthews to try harder and Marner to stop being a lil Mitch.


It could all be avoided, if we just stick with Lou and Mike long enough to toughen them up a bit. Luckily we got the mean coach and old GM out of town fast.

 

[Mess]

This isn't about what should happen, its really about what should have happened.

The Leafs had 3 youngsters all needing new 2nd contracts and the plan was to re-sign and keep them all.

However the minute Leafs decided to invest $11 mil into UFA John Tavares is the time they should have decided to deal either Marner or WIlly for an upgrade on defense reallocating his future cap usage away from a expensive winger to a top pairing Dman.

This question is 5 years too late and $11 mil too short to resolve.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

However the minute Leafs decided to invest $11 mil into UFA John Tavares is the time they should have decided to deal either Marner or WIlly for an upgrade on defense reallocating his future cap usage away from a expensive winger to a top pairing Dman.

It was a bad move bringing in JT.

It was a really bad move not locking up the youth before bringing in JT.

It was a mistake not having more forward and D balance.

UFAs are finishing pieces. For us it was a starting piece.

 

[rumman]

Here is the question before you delve into the rest.
We know the core: Matthews,Marner,JT,Nylander,Rielly.

Can this core win?
What does this team need to win the Cup now?
Can you get it?
How many pieces is it and what are they? Can it be got in the salary structure or without trading the core?

Once you answer this, you can decide on pieces staying or going.

I can’t see JT being part of the “wolf” pact. “One of these things is not like the others……..”

 

[Gary Nylund]

Here is the question before you delve into the rest.
We know the core: Matthews,Marner,JT,Nylander,Rielly.

Can this core win?
What does this team need to win the Cup now?
Can you get it?
How many pieces is it and what are they? Can it be got in the salary structure or without trading the core?

Once you answer this, you can decide on pieces staying or going.

If it was up to me, I'd pressure Marner to waive his NMC and go from there. Here's what I think will happen instead.

We're too goody goody an organization to do something as unseemly as asking Marner to waive. We also don't want him to walk for nothing so we will extend him in the summer. If he insists on 12 or even 12.5 we'll give it to him, and he'll want a full NMC as well so we give him that too. He has leverage now that he didn't have before so no reason to think we'll do anything but give him whatever he wants.

There's no point in further details. With those two sitting on the throne with their NMC's we're basically doomed as they're both lacking in leadership qualities and character. We'll keep trading futures because we're as ever, in win now mode. Most likely outcome is that we never get past the 2nd round and the cupboards keep getting emptier and if we're lucky, the situation is clearly hopeless by the time we get to Matty's 4th year so he'll ask to be traded, and with him under contract for two more playoff runs, we will get a big return in the way of picks/prospects. Marner will agree to go at that point as well, again we will get a ton of futures back and then we can bottom out and start over. If we're not so lucky, we'll still be trying to win in Matty's 4th year so the rebuild gets pushed another year or two down the road and then Matthews probably walks when his deal is up and we get no assets back for him making the inevitable rebuild that much tougher, especially since the cupboards will be even emptier another year or two down the line.

So best case scenario is that we bottom out sooner as opposed to later, and start to rise again maybe 7-8 years from now. I hope I'm wrong of course, but I doubt it. Maybe we somehow get to the 3rd round once at some point if everything falls just right for us but other than that, it's hard to see it going any other way. If M&M miraculously develop the character and leadership qualities that they're lacking, that's the only way I can see a different outcome but if that hasn't happened by now, it doesn't seem likely to me that it will ever happen.

Before anyone asks why bother watching if my outlook is so negative, the answer is that I've always watched, even when we've had no shot at the playoffs so why would I stop now? We still have talent, we'll still win a lot of games, and some nights it'll be fun to watch, I just don't have the excitement any more, the anticipation waiting for the playoffs that I've had the last few years when I thought we actually had a shot at going all the way.

 

[namttebih]

It was a bad move bringing in JT.

It was a really bad move not locking up the youth before bringing in JT.

It was a mistake not having more forward and D balance.

UFAs are finishing pieces. For us it was a starting piece.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't remember very many people complaining at the time of the signing.

It was the comedy of errors that followed that killed the team. Dubas getting bullied in contact negotiations with AM and MM. This was followed by getting pennies on the dollar for Kadri.

 

[ToneDog]

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't remember very many people complaining at the time of the signing.

It was the comedy of errors that followed that killed the team. Dubas getting bullied in contact negotiations with AM and MM. This was followed by getting pennies on the dollar for Kadri.

Say what you want about Kadri and his suspensions, but the guy cared and bled blue and white. Trading him was just dumb and the return was dumber.

And to those that claimed he cost us the Bruins series, I ask how many have we lost since we dumped him and who's fault were they?

 

[Gilmour1996]

The question is, is he popular with the clique in the core or with the majority of the team - especially vets coming in.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I really wonder about the maturity level of our core and why guys like O'Reilly choose to move on.

We haven't heard any recent reports about a drunk Matthews flashing ladies in parking lots with his underwear down to his ankles so maturity level of some of the core has likely gone up a bit. Nylander and Tavares seem mature enough. Not so sure if Marner has matured though. Does he still whine and cry when he doesn't get his own way?

 

[mydnyte]

This isn't about what should happen, its really about what should have happened.

The Leafs had 3 youngsters all needing new 2nd contracts and the plan was to re-sign and keep them all.

However the minute Leafs decided to invest $11 mil into UFA John Tavares is the time they should have decided to deal either Marner or WIlly for an upgrade on defense reallocating his future cap usage away from a expensive winger to a top pairing Dman.

This question is 5 years too late and $11 mil too short to resolve.

the mistake(s) in my opinion were:
not shelling out the $$ for Pietrangelo
and/or
not offering up Marner/Nylander + to Buffalo for Eichel + Owen Power who hadnt played yet.

The question is, is he popular with the clique in the core or with the majority of the team - especially vets coming in.

I don't want to read too much into it, but I really wonder about the maturity level of our core and why guys like O'Reilly choose to move on.

he did mention the attention factor was Huge, and its not like he went to a contender, he went to a team in stasis
he was our #3C and is their #1C ...compare that talent change.
He just wanted to cash in and relax.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't remember very many people complaining at the time of the signing.

It was the comedy of errors that followed that killed the team. Dubas getting bullied in contact negotiations with AM and MM. This was followed by getting pennies on the dollar for Kadri.

Yeah I don't agree at all with this popular narrative that the JT signing killed us because it drove up Marner's price and whatever else. Marner should have gotten 9 million instead of 11 and if he tried to compare himself to JT, you just tell him that JT was UFA, you are not, end of story and yes, it is that simple.

Say what you want about Kadri and his suspensions, but the guy cared and bled blue and white. Trading him was just dumb and the return was dumber.

And to those that claimed he cost us the Bruins series, I ask how many have we lost since we dumped him and who's fault were they?

Fair point. I understood why Kadri was traded but had I known how mentally weak and lacking in character and leadership qualities M&M were, I would have kept him. I just had no idea that he had more fight in him than the rest of these gutless pukes put together (except for Rielly).

If you keep Kadri, then you don't need JT and you keep your eyes open for opportunities to add the right Dman to the mix. Or, sign JT and trade Marner for that Dman after the MTL series, that was another opportunity to do a different route. And no matter what else, it's more clear than it ever was that Rielly should have been made captain.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I can’t see JT being part of the “wolf” pact. “One of these things is not like the others……..”

I was against signing JT (and still think it was a mistake), but I think he is much more 'wolf' than Marner.

 

[BallardEra]

What's the cause behind the lack of production in Marner's eyes?

"Just not getting the puck with a whole lot of speed and myself moving," he said on Monday. "Not really trusting my abilities out there, so it's something that needs to change and you've just got to trust it."


And how does he get through a stretch like this?

"Breathing, relaxing, realizing [the offense] will come. If you force stuff, that's when you'll get more frustrated, more mad. Just gotta trust your instincts, trust your game, and I've been in the spots before multiple times in my career, so it's just making sure I'm relaxed, calm and steady out there, and just doing what I love."