Salary Cap: Gun to Your Head

[horner]

Let see how they both play against the tough teams
Florida you are up

 

[keonsbitterness]

Marner is a disruption in the locker room. He is toxic. He should be traded.

How many times have you been in the room with the team?

 

[Michoulicious]

Mitch has A FULL NMC.

Surprise!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Of course not, they are worried about their football and basketball teams. They also have Brind'Amour behind the bench, a solid D core and proven goalies. We have Keefe, and weak goaltending behind a terrible D.
That was my initial reply to poster comparing the situations in Carolina with Toronto and the behaviour of their fans. I compared, coach, D and goaltending. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough.
I don't know how you define proven, but Andy and Raanta's numbers makes me call them proven. If those two are not proven, you may want to ask Shanny and Tre WTF they are thinking trying to win a SC with a goalie thrown to the curb by Washington and another with 22 NHL games under his belt.

You could just as easily say that Carolina is trying to win the cup with a goalie thrown to the curb by Toronto, a goalie thrown to the curb by Arizona, and a goalie with 34 games under their belt. Lots of teams are trying to win with a goalie that somebody else let go. Goalies fluctuate so much it doesn't really matter.

Kochetkov is a rookie, and Andersen (injured) and Raanta are "proven" in the sense that they are NHL goalies, but not much beyond that.
Andersen has been below a league average goalie in 4 of the past 5 seasons, and is now chronically injured.
Raanta is an often injured career tandem goalie/backup, who has hovered around league average since 2017-2018, and is currently having a horrible year.
Kochetkov is a rookie who has never done anything of note, who is playing badly this year.
You tried to come in and talk up Carolina goaltending as a proven positive when they were -10.8 GSAx on the season with everybody in the negatives, while simultaneously blasting Leaf goaltending that was -1.5 GSAx. Then, when you got proven wrong, you left, came to this thread to misquote and misrepresent what I said, and then created a strawman argument about the Toronto tandem's "proven" status when nobody was even talking about that.

Just like Carolina, and most teams, our tandem isn't proven either. But at least one guy is in the positives and the other was a top 10 goalie last year.
And even with struggles, they're performing much better than Carolina's goalies have.

 

[thewave]

Sadly the majority are not far off from realizing that we missed the window to win because of a series of missteps.

Its going to take MM waiving his NMC while getting a fantastic return to fix this. William being traded may do it as well but then again neither trades would fix the tending.

Depressing stuff

 

[Trapper]

Sadly the majority are not far off from realizing that we missed the window to win because of a series of missteps.

Its going to take MM waiving his NMC while getting a fantastic return to fix this. William being traded may do it as well but then again neither trades would fix the tending.

Depressing stuff

It’s like the 12 days of Leafmas.
On the 12th day of Leafmas there is no Cup for me:
4 different goalies,
3 GMs,
2 other coaches
And a Shanny who refuses to see.

 

[34]

How many times have you been in the room with the team?

I said that in reference to his demeanour. He behaves like a kid having a tantrum. Entitlement. Can not be good for his teammates.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I said that in reference to his demeanour. He behaves like a kid having a tantrum. Entitlement. Can not be good for his teammates.

behaves like a kid having a tantrum

Irony!

 

[gordonshumway]

Just wondering, why is it a foregone conclusion that we won't be able to keep both? I'm looking at capfriendly and one could venture a guess that even if Nylander gets his 11m, that can come from the 4m bump in the cap next year. Most if not all of this year's UFA signings won't be retained (Klingberg surely, but I wonder if they'll want to keep Domi and/or Bertuzzi). Add to that Brodie's 5m coming off the books (even if they keep him, no way in hell he gets a raise), Samsonov is gone if he doesn't find his game... so all those should leave enough room for Nylander's new deal, and then the year after Tavares deal will be expiring and he's not getting a raise either (plus another cap bump coming). So it kinda seems like they can keep both - now whether they *should* is another discussion

 

[rumman]

It’s like the 12 days of Leafmas.
On the 12th day of Leafmas there is no Cup for me:
4 different goalies,
3 GMs,
2 other coaches
And a Shanny who refuses to see.

I've already come to the conclusion that what's left of this era of the Leafs will win nothing..............

 

[ToneDog]

Just wondering, why is it a foregone conclusion that we won't be able to keep both? I'm looking at capfriendly and one could venture a guess that even if Nylander gets his 11m, that can come from the 4m bump in the cap next year. Most if not all of this year's UFA signings won't be retained (Klingberg surely, but I wonder if they'll want to keep Domi and/or Bertuzzi). Add to that Brodie's 5m coming off the books (even if they keep him, no way in hell he gets a raise), Samsonov is gone if he doesn't find his game... so all those should leave enough room for Nylander's new deal, and then the year after Tavares deal will be expiring and he's not getting a raise either (plus another cap bump coming). So it kinda seems like they can keep both - now whether they *should* is another discussion

Question is, can you replace the players that walk with as good or better players with less money? Most likely not, in which case you continue to get worse while a few teams behind you continue to get better. They'd need Cowan, Minten and Woll to take a step up and Tre to add right UFAs.

 

[gordonshumway]

Question is, can you replace the players that walk with as good or better players with less money? Most likely not, in which case you continue to get worse while a few teams behind you continue to get better. They'd need Cowan, Minten and Woll to take a step up and Tre to add right UFAs.

Yeah, and we don't have much in terms of draft capital going forward either... but those free agent signings past summer aren't exactly setting the world on fire either. They hoped Bertuzzi would be a 1st line answer, he (so far) isn't but Knies seems to be working there. Domi, I'm disappointed with but if he's a 3rd liner as he seems to be, it's much easier to replace those than a top6 guy. I'm more concerned with replacing Brodie, he's getting a lot of hate in another thread but people seem to ignore the fact his +9 is leading the team and he plays a lot. You can ditch him, but you better have a decent replacement planned.

 

[rumman]

Yeah, and we don't have much in terms of draft capital going forward either... but those free agent signings past summer aren't exactly setting the world on fire either. They hoped Bertuzzi would be a 1st line answer, he (so far) isn't but Knies seems to be working there. Domi, I'm disappointed with but if he's a 3rd liner as he seems to be, it's much easier to replace those than a top6 guy. I'm more concerned with replacing Brodie, he's getting a lot of hate in another thread but people seem to ignore the fact his +9 is leading the team and he plays a lot. You can ditch him, but you better have a decent replacement planned.

Thankfully none of the players other than Reeves got term so if they don’t pan out it’s a short term problem. I’m not giving up on Bert or Domi yet, we’ll know by season’s end if they were good signings………

 

[Blaylock38]

It has always been and always will be Mitch. He doesn't do enough to justify his current contract or the raise he will be asking for at the end of this one.

 

[Zero1]

I don’t really care that Dubas is not here anymore but after his presser I really thought he was going to move Marner before the NMC kicked in.

I know most people keep pointing to that NMC but do you really think he won’t get a NMC on his next contract if he re-signs here? Do the Leafs just never look to trading him then?

Tell him that he can sign this fair contract or he can leave as there is no future for him in Toronto.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

You force him out through whatever means necessary.

The thought of paying him more on his next contract and his disgraceful play should make people here realize that’s the only option.

Basically we tell him if he doesn’t waive, we are sending Corey Perry after Bonnie

 

[pcruz]

Nylander has all of the skill of a superstar player.

Nylander has a vacuum between the ears.

When things are going well for him, he's not thinking at all out there, just doing.

It's when Willy starts to think of what to do that he makes the most blatant brain dead plays which usually go right back as a chance against.


This year, I think Mitch deserves to be scratched periodically because he's been abysmal.


But gun to the head, you keep the smarter player who despite having a fraction of the skill, has always outproduced the other player.

 

[KapG]

Marner without a second thought

 

[diceman934]

Marner = NMC so it could only be Nylander.

Besides they will both be making a similar salary you keep the younger better player. Marner and it is not even close.

 

[Sypher04]

Besides they will both be making a similar salary you keep the younger better player. Marner and it is not even close.

We should keep both, but if we were moving one, I can see the argument for keeping either. That all said, Marner is only literally mere days over a year younger than Nylander so that’s not going to be the deciding factor. Their age difference is simply not significant.

 

[ToneDog]

We should keep both, but if we were moving one, I can see the argument for keeping either. That all said, Marner is only literally mere days over a year younger than Nylander so that’s not going to be the deciding factor. Their age difference is simply not significant.

Wiilie's game is trending up. Marner's is trending down. Unless you see that changing or you get a king's ransom for Willie, Mitch is the one you trade. Smaller, slower, weaker, muffin shot.

Now if you take the gun away from my head, I'd trade them both for the right return.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Besides they will both be making a similar salary you keep the younger better player. Marner and it is not even close.

I don't think the one year difference in age is as important as the better player aspect.

You're right - Marner is the one to trade, ainec.

 

[diceman934]

We should keep both, but if we were moving one, I can see the argument for keeping either. That all said, Marner is only literally mere days over a year younger than Nylander so that’s not going to be the deciding factor. Their age difference is simply not significant.

I year younger is significant when choosing. Same as skill it is a factor. Marner has more points in regular season and playoffs so you keep him over willy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We should keep both, but if we were moving one, I can see the argument for keeping either. That all said, Marner is only literally mere days over a year younger than Nylander so that’s not going to be the deciding factor. Their age difference is simply not significant.

Agreed, age is not a factor here. It's an interesting choice, two very different players. In the past it was always Marner but this season, Nylander is outplaying him so not so clear anymore. Then when you think about all the playoff series where Marner is Marner for the first few games but then turns into a ghost for the last few, well that's why I now lean towards Nylander.

I assume our choice is to keep both, but if Nylander wants to be paid the same as Marner that could make it tough since Marner's already overpaid and will probably want a raise. If Tre will bend over for Marner and pay him 12, not sure I see Nylander settling for 10.5 but I can see Nylander waiting until they extend Marner before agreeing to anything.

Not an obvious choice in any case because who knows what level Nylander will play at going forward, and who knows if Marner will ever figure out how to handle the pressure of playing the biggest games so I agree with you - I can see the argument for keeping either.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I year younger is significant when choosing. Same as skill it is a factor. Marner has more points in regular season and playoffs so you keep him over willy.

I believe over the last 4 years Marner has one more point in the playoffs, but Nylander has many more goals so if anything, playoff production is in Nylander's favor, especially since he's not playing with Matthews. Plus Mitchy has a tendency to disappear in the biggest games and anyone who saw game 3 against Florida when he was the worst player on the ice has to wonder about mis mental makeup.