Salary Cap: Gun to Your Head

[ACC1224]

What an absolute horrible take on marner. Also, knies has been okay, but not a top player on this team. He'll get better every year.

You could fill a book with the horrible Marner takes added daily here.
Warning be prepared for the brain dead ‘Paul’ comments to follow.

 

[ToneDog]

I've always maintained this (still to be proven wrong; will be happy to be proven wrong) that:

- individually they are good players (matthews, tavares, nylander, marner); together though they are not just good enough especially when it comes to playoffs. they don't have the drive to raise their games.

For some reason they don't come together as a team under this leadership group; they play like a bunch of individuals.

I just wonder what our defensive state would be if we didn't have Rielly busting his ass every night.

So you are saying they are not greater than the sum of their parts.

 

[Buds17]

I'm not moved by this "point to someone else" defence. And even if I was, Marner makes about 4 million a year more than Nylander so he should be outscoring him by a lot. I just had a quick peek at the numbers - over the last 4 years, Marner has 30 playoff points to Nylander's 29, but Nylander has 14 goals compared to 5 for Marner. If you're trying to make Marner look good, you didn't pick a good example here.

Here are Marner's playoff numbers, read 'em and weep.

Games 1-4 - 1.19 PPG
Games 5-7 - 0.47 PPG

I'm merely stating that Marner has seven more points in the playoffs while having played in the same number of games as Nylander. I do agree that Marner should have the better production since he is receiving the greater amount of pay. Adjusting the parameters by zeroing in on goals or half the sample size of playoff experience is respectfully a matter of moving the goalposts though. It'll also be difficult for almost any player to look good since the team has only won the one playoff round in recent memory.

 

[arso40]

Nylander is a star hockey player having a career year. If we pay him 11m, we will regret it.

Marner is less of a hockey player and moreso the physical manifestation of a swirling mess of narratives. He's the golden boy, the local kid who was the chosen one, who seems to be eternally tormented by the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Doug Gilmour, flipping pucks over the glass, hockey dad from hell fighting people on twitter, this guy is anything but a normal hockey player. The actual human being Mitch Marner has absolutely sick talent, but mentally he's got to be the weirdest hockey player I've ever seen. Wound up tighter than (insert favourite tasteless metaphor here) and prone to implosions when we need a hockey player to lead us.

Marner is more talented than Nylander, there's no real doubt to me about it. But I don't think Marner can win in Toronto, he's got too much going against him mentally. If you love him, let him go somewhere else where he can be free.

That's what I'd do. What the Leafs are going to do is let Nylander walk as a UFA this summer and re-up Marner next summer to a 12m contract that comes with the captaincy.

Really? I would argue marner is not more talented he’s smarter and even that gap is closing point is split marner and matthews and leave it like that

 

[Commander Clueless]

Why not both? Retool around Matthews and let's give this another go.

 

[Arzak]

The last playoffs

Player A: 24:08 min per game

Player B: 18:45 min per game

Player A also gets to play with the best goal-scorer in the league. Player B scores significantly more goals. Is player A really more productive in playoffs?

 

[GoonieFace]

Why not both? Retool around Matthews and let's give this another go.

Nylander has shown he has that extra gear when he decides to use it. Marner simply does not, he is easy to defend when teams need to clamp down. He is what he is, a regular season warrior

 

[Commander Clueless]

Nylander has shown he has that extra gear when he decides to use it. Marner simply does not, he is easy to defend when teams need to clamp down. He is what he is, a regular season warrior

I love Nylander but if he's serious about the $10-11M demands and another team wants to field that for good assets, it might be time to move on.

Not sure why the Leafs have to pay Mitch and Willy prices above their comparables. Do people hate Toronto that much?

I don't know if I'm being overly pessimistic but this season has "wash" written all over it to me. I would be happy to be wrong but we've got a struggling team, lots of expiring contracts and the off-season was a bit of a dud after going all in last year The play here might be keep the 1st, trade some expiring contracts and retool in the summer. Hope Auston is still the star we all know he can be.

 

[34]

Ask yourself this everyone…

Will any other GM in the NHL pay Marner or Nylander $12M or more? I think not. This BS has to stop here in Toronto. If they are not willing to sign for $8M-$8.5M then trade them both. They are not worth more than this.

Matthews took the MLSE to the bank at gunpoint on the $13.25M AAV. That contract is asinine. MLSE needs to learn from that mistake and not do it with Marner or Nylander now. f***ing trade them if they keep that behavior up. I also have to say that Marners‘s attitude and behavior is an absolute turn off. His smug, entitled cry baby actions are a real piss off. He has become a very unlikeable player.

 

[GoonieFace]

Or because after two losses the idea of trading the best players on a perennial top team in the league seems....odd? People only start these threads after a couple of losses. Don't see them much after the 4 game winning streaks.

These threads have been going on for years, understandably since this team has won 1 playoff round. This isn’t rash by any means

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Let's say that the writing is on the wall. It's a foregone conclusion that we won't be able to resign Willy and build a competitive, cap complient team.

Try to put recency bias behind you as Willy is on a heater. Easy question: Trade Willy or Mitch.

Nylander

 

[PromisedLand]

Two fans meet to discuss hockey and...

 

[Gary Nylund]

What an absolute horrible take on marner. Also, knies has been okay, but not a top player on this team. He'll get better every year.

We hope Knies will get better every year but this is far from being a sure thing.

You could fill a book with the horrible Marner takes added daily here.
Warning be prepared for the brain dead ‘Paul’ comments to follow.

Trust me when I say that if you weren't calling Marner "super crazy elite" in 186 different threads every time the kid did something good, there would be a lot less "Paul" comments. You feel me?

Edit - allow me to correct myself. Now that I remember some of your posts this summer, it seems the kid doesn't even have to do anything good for you to pollute every thread with your "super crazy elite" nonsense.

I'm merely stating that Marner has seven more points in the playoffs while having played in the same number of games as Nylander. I do agree that Marner should have the better production since he is receiving the greater amount of pay. Adjusting the parameters by zeroing in on goals or half the sample size of playoff experience is respectfully a matter of moving the goalposts though. It'll also be difficult for almost any player to look good since the team has only won the one playoff round in recent memory.

Looking at the last 4 years isn't moving the goalposts, it's entirely logical. For one thing, recent performance always carries more weight than past performance - who cares about what happened 5 years ago? And those are also the 4 years where Marner has been making 11 million compared to Nylander's 7 and as I mentioned, their cap hit figures prominently when we're talking about what we should reasonably expect from these guys.

I also don't equate player performance with team performance. Example - last playoffs Rielly was fantastic, Marner not so much, especially in game 3 against Florida when in the biggest game of the year, he was the worst player on the ice. How is it even possible for an 11 million dollar player to look like a nervous rookie playing his first NHL game in the biggest game of the year? The mind boggles.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I've always maintained this (still to be proven wrong; will be happy to be proven wrong) that:

- individually they are good players (matthews, tavares, nylander, marner); together though they are not just good enough especially when it comes to playoffs. they don't have the drive to raise their games.

For some reason they don't come together as a team under this leadership group; they play like a bunch of individuals.

I just wonder what our defensive state would be if we didn't have Rielly busting his ass every night.

I think the reason this group isn't working out for us is that they are all too similar in playing styles. All skill, no nastiness and a flair for flaming out when the pressure is highest (Willy isn't really bad in that respect compared to the others). When you have no diversity in your top players it makes it much harder to cover up for each others flaws. If we play a team that is rough and tumble and we have those type of star players...they cover up for the MM and AM's of the team.

What we have is a team that someone has written a blueprint on how to beat and everyone uses it against us with great success.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Let's say that the writing is on the wall. It's a foregone conclusion that we won't be able to resign Willy and build a competitive, cap complient team.

Try to put recency bias behind you as Willy is on a heater. Easy question: Trade Willy or Mitch.

Trade both

Yeah let’s trade 2 of our best 3 players for futures and return to being f***ing garbage.

The takes here are ridiculous lately

This core has a low probability of winning the cup
It's over

 

[andora]

Need assholes.. we have needed assholes for years..

 

[Clark4Ever]

Even if their salaries were equal, I would still prefer to keep Nylander long term.

 

[Drytoast]

Mitch better come in single digits on his next contract.

 

[andora]

Does anyome watch this group and actually feel inspired?

 

[LeafsFan89]

What eats at me is that Dubas was clearly going to break up the core 4 in his presser. And the odd one out is clearly Mitch Marner based on playoff style hockey, inability to win under pressure (remember the x amount of years in a row with delay of game penalties lol). and playoff production relative to minutes.

Perhaps three weeks isn't enough time to trade a guy, I don't know, I am not a GM. But man, what a missed opportunity to probably get a couple of decent, young dmen and better cap allocation.

Before I get piled on for being a Dubas fan - I am indifferent to whoever runs the team; what I want is changes to make this team a true contender. Let's get started Tre.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Need assholes.. we have needed assholes for years..

Could really use a Roberts or Tucker, and Matthews having half the drive Mats had

 

[Arzak]

Mitch better come in single digits on his next contract.

He won't, but it's good to have a dream.

 

[andora]

Could really use a Roberts or Tucker, and Matthews having half the drive Mats had

Guys like hartman and konecny

 

[rumman]

Trade both


This core has a low probability of winning the cup
It's over

if it was possible I'd trade em all, this team is cancerous, infected to the core..........

 

[Arzak]

If we kept our picks, we could have several players like Knies on our roster making us much better cap and performance wise.

But we needed Foligno and ROR to install balls/leadership during their 2 month stay with Leafs.