Salary Cap: Gun to Your Head

[notbias]

Coming from a random fan, this is rich indeed.

Thank you for the solid contribution, groundbreaking like usual.

Please point out the flawed logic.

The trade proposal was to allow another team the privilege of overpaying Matthews, and in return they'd send us multiple 1sts+.

How is he not overpaid?

21 pts in 19 games. He isnt top 10 in pt/ppg this year again.

He is still on 11.634M so he is overpaid on that deal right now vs 13.25M which begins next year.

If his production improves then he is worth his deal. If he is a 85-95 pt player only in the highest scoring league since the early 90s then he is not fairly paid

Matthews has not been a top 10 player in the league for close to 100 games now (74 i think last year and 19 this year). He has to step up if he wants to pretend he is one of the best players in the league and take 13M

At current production/play, he is... so why would a GM take him off our hands and give us 2x 1st+... your proposal makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Evilhomer]

I first broached the idea of trading Marner after our humiliating 1st round loss to MTL. When I'm evaluating this team and it's players, I don't focus on 4 game streaks during the regular season, it's the 1-7 playoff round record that speaks volumes and that strongly suggests that it's time to stop betting on this core.

I think it's fine to suggest trading a player for the purposes of trying to get a return that will make the team better. The issue is that too many people are jumping off ledges when they pile into these threads. Trading Marner is irrelevant because he can block any trade. Same for Tavares. Trading Nylander makes no sense at this point. All of this means that improvement will have to come from other areas. Add two or three defensively responsible players to this team and I think many of these issues fall away.

Maybe because 5 regulation wins in 19 games puts that 4 game win streak into perspective? That perennial top team being a perennial playoff disaster also adds fuel to the fire

How can you call last season a playoff disaster? They lost a series where they outplayed the other team and lost 2 games in overtime.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think being a toronto kid he feels there so much pressure on him. I don’t think Mitch can handle the pressure. He will thrive in a smaller market where there is no pressure on him.

 

[hamzarocks]

Thank you for the solid contribution, groundbreaking like usual.

Please point out the flawed logic.

The trade proposal was to allow another team the privilege of overpaying Matthews, and in return they'd send us multiple 1sts+.



At current production/play, he is... so why would a GM take him off our hands and give us 2x 1st+... your proposal makes absolutely no sense.

My propsal was in the offseason, before he got his 4 years 13.25M extension.

Right now we need him to bounce back and be worth his deal b/c no one has the cap or desire for a ppgish soon to be 13M man.

Once we decided to go to compete and keep Matthews, we are kind of stuck in our spot unless one of the core 4 steps up huge in the playoffs.

There isnt much help coming this deadline.

We wont deal Cowan, Knies, and Robertson most likely

Unlikely we deal niemela, and minten. Everyone else in our prospect pool is to uncooked/undervalued at the moment to get us an upgrade on defense.

We shuffled the chairs this offseason, improving offense for defense. It would be better if 16, and 34 were playing like usual, but with them both looking very concerning so far, the team has struggled outside of 88 and 91 (aling with domi and robertson/knies depth contributions)

Pizza Man/Shanny combo is just like Dubas/Shanny combo.

We dont know what our L/T strategy is. We get 1 year guys, hope they overplay their deals and then they perform below avg come playoffs and walk as UFAs, rinse and repeat.

Treliving letting Nylander go on this long is an epic failure. He should have been signed coming into the season or dealth at the draft.

We are getting screwed now and could risk losing him for nil

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thank you for the solid contribution, groundbreaking like usual.

Please point out the flawed logic.

The trade proposal was to allow another team the privilege of overpaying Matthews, and in return they'd send us multiple 1sts+.

The meaning of my post apparently went flying over your head. Fear not, I will elucidate.

I wasn't commenting on the proposal, I was merely pointing out the irony in this statement of yours.

"I trust them over a random fan like you..."

You sir, are also nothing more than a random fan, therefore your comment is dripping with irony. I hope that helps.

 

[notbias]

The meaning of my post apparently went flying over your head. Fear not, I will elucidate.

I wasn't commenting on the proposal, I was merely pointing out the irony in this statement of yours.

"I trust them over a random fan like you..."

You sir, are also nothing more than a random fan, therefore your comment is dripping with irony. I hope that helps.

It didn't, still idiotic.

 

[rumman]

if it was possible this is the order I’d trade em:
16
34
91
88

 

[Evilhomer]

I think being a toronto kid he feels there so much pressure on him. I don’t think Mitch can handle the pressure. He will thrive in a smaller market where there is no pressure on him.

Given that Marner has thrived in this market, I think he would be the same player in any other market.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Marner and Tavares traded after the Columbus series. Not that they are bad players, but it was smashing you in the face obvious it wasn't going to work this way.

It's too late now. Too many futures are out of the window, the core is scarred and won't be able to get it done. We'll keep plugging away and spinning our tires until the core are in their mid-30s. We will not see a Cup any time soon.

 

[rumman]

Or because after two losses the idea of trading the best players on a perennial top team in the league seems....odd? People only start these threads after a couple of losses. Don't see them much after the 4 game winning streaks.

For a team with one playoff round success in god knows how long, I think it’s safe to say your assessment borders on hyperbole………

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think it's fine to suggest trading a player for the purposes of trying to get a return that will make the team better. The issue is that too many people are jumping off ledges when they pile into these threads. Trading Marner is irrelevant because he can block any trade. Same for Tavares. Trading Nylander makes no sense at this point. All of this means that improvement will have to come from other areas. Add two or three defensively responsible players to this team and I think many of these issues fall away.

As I said earlier, I broached the idea of trading Marner years ago.

You've recently made a number of insane predictions that reek of extreme homerism. If you're now beginning to understand that there are "issues", then you're late to the party but good to have you here I guess.

Just "two or three defensively responsible players" eh, and praytell, where are these players coming from? Do you know of some magic tree where these players grow? I only ask because I don't see that we have much offer in a trade, just the big 4 (which you don't think can be touched) and a few remaining futures and I'm not sure trading away what little future we have left is a good idea.

This core is a proven failure. I admire your optimism, but thinking "these issues" will ever "fall away" is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It didn't, still idiotic.

If you don't understand something, call it idiotic. Bravo!

I find it hard to believe that you can't understand something that was so simple to begin with and then clearly explained to you. I think you're being purposefully obtuse but either way, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[BayStBullies]

You forgot the "Neither" option

 

[hotpaws]

Mitch gets a pass this year because he's a newlywed
Sammy gets a pass this year because he's a new father

also Mitch has a nmc so just like Johnny he's impossible to move

so the only choice is to trade Willie and put up with watching Tavares stand in front of the oppositions net waiting to be fed while we're trapped in our own end

 

[Evilhomer]

As I said earlier, I broached the idea of trading Marner years ago.

You've recently made a number of insane predictions that reek of extreme homerism. If you're now beginning to understand that there are "issues", then you're late to the party but good to have you here I guess.

Just "two or three defensively responsible players" eh, and praytell, where are these players coming from? Do you know of some magic tree where these players grow? I only ask because I don't see that we have much offer in a trade, just the big 4 (which you don't think can be touched) and a few remaining futures and I'm not sure trading away what little future we have left is a good idea.

This core is a proven failure. I admire your optimism, but thinking "these issues" will ever "fall away" is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I don't think it takes much to acquire two mid pairing defensemen and a third line centre. Clutterbuck and Cizikas from the Islanders are examples. You're looking at probably giving up nothing more than low end prospects and third round picks. Between that and a guy like tanev, you don't need to give away any good assets.

 

[ACC1224]

It wouldn't be the first to be waived though.


I thought of this question when they were on their last win streak.

Any examples of someone in his situation waiving? No one has ever provided one

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think it takes much to acquire two mid pairing defensemen and a third line centre. Clutterbuck and Cizikas from the Islanders are examples. You're looking at probably giving up nothing more than low end prospects and third round picks.

If you pay with peanuts, expect monkey level performance.

Seriously, if you think this team that has a 1-7 playoff round record can be fixed by what you can get for "nothing more than low end prospects and third round picks", you're dreaming. Can I get some of whatever it is that you're smoking?

For a team with one playoff round success in god knows how long, I think it’s safe to say your assessment borders on hyperbole………

Maybe he meant to say perennial playoff team? Also perennial playoff loser, but I digress ...

 

[TMLegend]

It's really not even about point production for me when it comes to Marner. He's likely gonna get his 90-95 points by seasons end. His wildly inconsistent play is maddening. Marners highs and lows are extreme to the point he's borderline unplayable when's he off due to the excessive amount of giveaways he causes.

I also don't think the fact that this guy wears a letter is a good look for the organization as a whole given he's quite testy with the media in general and he has tendency to sulk when things aren't going good. I just don't think "professional" when I evaluate Mitch Marner.

 

[PromisedLand]

Scenario A - Who I prefer we traded
Marner; he hasn't lived up to his contract especially in the playoffs
But can't trade him as that trash that was dubas gave him full NMC/NTC that kicked in a the same time as Matthews' did

Scenario B - Who may have to be traded
Nylander: Because he is the only guy who doesn't have a full NMC/NTC

Scenario C - What the Leafs should have done (Hindsight)
Not sign Tavares to 11 AAV as a UFA and/or given Matthews only 5 years at 11.6 AAV; Nylander only 6 years at 7 AAV and definitely not given marner 11 AAV for 6 years only

Scenario D - write off this season and next season as a re-tool;
You re-sign Nylander, wait out Tavares' contract to expire and let Marner walk as a UFA
This sucks b/c you cannot let assets like Nylander and Marner walk as a UFA. It is painful.


OPTIONS:
1. Re-sign Nylander and be in a cap hell next season; worry about the cap and success when Tavares is off the cap.
2. Trade Nylander to get some assets. Get something instead of nothing. Work in Nylander's agent to do a sign and trade.
3. Convince Marner to waive the NMC/NTC and work with him and his agent to trade Marner
4. Status-Quo: Do the same thing and expect a different result. Basically, hope that these overpaid forwards will finally learn to be a pro; and come out to play most nights and raise their level of play in the playoffs. Even after 7years of evidence; throw that in the bin and just hope that this is the year every freakin' year

 

[Stephen]

Any examples of someone in his situation waiving? No one has ever provided one

Erik Karlsson waived his NMC to go to Pittsburgh last summer. That's off the top of my head since he scored a GWG last night.

 

[PromisedLand]

While true, we can clearly see when Matthews is not scoring, Marner is not collecting assists, you don't see him stepping up.

If we trade Nylander now, we'll get 1st back we flip for rental at trade deadline.

Marner is already overpaid, split him and Matthews, resign Nylander.

Good news is you can let either test UFA. Only Leafs could give RFA Marner $11M.

How much can he realistically get from a mad GM as UFA?

11.5 ? 12 ? He can stay in his hometown, keep his endorsement deals in place, get a frontloaded contract etc.

32 teams in the league, but I have a hard time seeing any non-leaf team paying McDavid money for Mitch

there was a rumor about CBJ doing an offersheet for marner at 10.5 and everybody was losing their shit on this board. I would have welcomed that offersheet with 4 first round picks.

The sense of fear and no foresight/logic has screwed the Leafs

 

[notbias]

Scenario A - Who I prefer we traded
Marner; he hasn't lived up to his contract especially in the playoffs
But can't trade him as that trash that was dubas gave him full NMC/NTC that kicked in a the same time as Matthews' did

Scenario B - Who may have to be traded
Nylander: Because he is the only guy who doesn't have a full NMC/NTC

Scenario C - What the Leafs should have done (Hindsight)
Not sign Tavares to 11 AAV as a UFA and/or given Matthews only 5 years at 11.6 AAV; Nylander only 6 years at 7 AAV and definitely not given marner 11 AAV for 6 years only

Scenario D - write off this season and next season as a re-tool;
You re-sign Nylander, wait out Tavares' contract to expire and let Marner walk as a UFA
This sucks b/c you cannot let assets like Nylander and Marner walk as a UFA. It is painful.


OPTIONS:
1. Re-sign Nylander and be in a cap hell next season; worry about the cap and success when Tavares is off the cap.
2. Trade Nylander to get some assets. Get something instead of nothing. Work in Nylander's agent to do a sign and trade.
3. Convince Marner to waive the NMC/NTC and work with him and his agent to trade Marner
4. Status-Quo: Do the same thing and expect a different result. Basically, hope that these overpaid forwards will finally learn to be a pro; and come out to play most nights and raise their level of play in the playoffs. Even after 7years of evidence; throw that in the bin and just hope that this is the year every freakin' year

Why are we in cap hell next year if we re-sign Nylander?

We have Nylander's raise sitting on LTIR right now...

 

[Evilhomer]

It's really not even about point production for me when it comes to Marner. He's likely gonna get his 90-95 points by seasons end. His wildly inconsistent play is maddening. Marners highs and lows are extreme to the point he's borderline unplayable when's he off due to the excessive amount of giveaways he causes.

I also don't think the fact that this guy wears a letter is a good look for the organization as a whole given he's quite testy with the media in general and he has tendency to sulk when things aren't going good. I just don't think "professional" when I evaluate Mitch Marner.

Marner is one of the best players in the league, but I agree that his approach with the media is not great. You would think the team would have gotten him some media training over the years.

 

[ACC1224]

You force him out through whatever means necessary.

The thought of paying him more on his next contract and his disgraceful play should make people here realize that’s the only option.

What are the ‘means’?

 

[PromisedLand]

Why are we in cap hell next year if we re-sign Nylander?

We have Nylander's raise sitting on LTIR right now...

are you saying that:

Tavares 11 AAV
Matthews 13.25 AAV
Marner 11 AAV
Nyaldner 10+ AAV
Total: approx 45M+ in 4 guys all forwards is a great strategy

Is going to be an awesome cap allocation for Leafs next season with guaranteed success in regular season and post season?

WHAT?