Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | The Boys of Summer

[VanillaCoke]

Chinakhov too. Would love any of them.

Fun fact, I drafted chinakov in 2019 fantasy draft, fifth round iirc, hire me nhl pls thx.

In reality I have him behind the other two, Marchenko's shot is too legitimate, but Voronkov at the top he looked like a beast ready for breakout in a small sample last year.

 

[Vector]

Fun fact, I drafted chinakov in 2019 fantasy draft, fifth round iirc, hire me nhl pls thx.

In reality I have him behind the other two, Marchenko's shot is too legitimate, but Voronkov at the top he looked like a beast ready for breakout in a small sample last year.

I have him behind the others too but I’m not going scoff at any of them. Chinakhov really impressed me in the small amount I saw of him. Voronkov looks like a problem for defenseman and Marchenko has all the offensive skill in the world in a big body.

Can’t wait for the Blue Jackets to f*** it up.

 

[TruGr1t]

Is that where lekky comes in?

No, I think they're looking for something more immediate. IE. Established NHLer.

 

[Lindgren]

people put too much weight on prospects like willander, lekkerimaki, raty, etc

i'm not saying they'll bust but go look at how few rookies/sophomores make meaningful contributions to their teams and then look at their ages and/or where they are drafted. the kinds of guys who come in on an elc and play big minutes for contenders are either top 5 picks or come out of nowhere

the closest thing the panthers had last year or the year before to a meaningful rookie contributor was lundell in his age 20/21 seasons (after making the league fulltime in his age 19). vegas had nobody. edmonton had nobody unless you count broberg in his age 22 season or mcleod in his age 23 season. colorado had byram and newhook both in their age 20 season but newhook barely contributed and byram was the 4th overall. the lightning had sergachev at age 21 but he was in his 3rd season at that point. the lightning also had cirelli and cernak but both barely played at age 22 before being more important at 23

if willander is an important canuck going forward it probably won't be for another two or three seasons. if you can move him now for someone who helps for those seasons and can still be around after that you have to at least consider it

I agree, basically, but "who helps now" needs to be more specific. As in ,"helps a very lot now," or, better yet, "pushes the Canucks into cup-favourite territory now."

 

[Baby Pettersson]

I feel like Hoglander is becoming the most underrated player in the league.

Guys 23, coming off a 24 goal season playing mainly 3rd/4th line minutes.

All while on a 1.1M contract.

Honestly one of the top players from his entire draft class!

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

people put too much weight on prospects like willander, lekkerimaki, raty, etc

i'm not saying they'll bust but go look at how few rookies/sophomores make meaningful contributions to their teams and then look at their ages and/or where they are drafted. the kinds of guys who come in on an elc and play big minutes for contenders are either top 5 picks or come out of nowhere

the closest thing the panthers had last year or the year before to a meaningful rookie contributor was lundell in his age 20/21 seasons (after making the league fulltime in his age 19). vegas had nobody. edmonton had nobody unless you count broberg in his age 22 season or mcleod in his age 23 season. colorado had byram and newhook both in their age 20 season but newhook barely contributed and byram was the 4th overall. the lightning had sergachev at age 21 but he was in his 3rd season at that point. the lightning also had cirelli and cernak but both barely played at age 22 before being more important at 23

if willander is an important canuck going forward it probably won't be for another two or three seasons. if you can move him now for someone who helps for those seasons and can still be around after that you have to at least consider it

I think your premise is quite flawed.

None of the teams you are mentioning had high recent draft picks. And also, the NHL is incredibly weird, myopic, and stupid when it comes to precedent and that bleeds into the media and fandom.

Like how every team starts chasing their tail to adopt the style of the most recent cup winner. So like, when the Canucks lost in the finals to Boston everyone including us suddenly put an emphasis on being tough, etc. But if Hamhuis, Malhotra, Samuelsson, Raymond, Ehrhoff, Edler, Rome, etc etc weren't some combination of out with injury, out due to suspension, or playing severely diminished due to injury, then we likely win that cup and now the whole league starts chasing puck possession as the only way you can win.

So overemphasizing the fact that most successful teams of the last two years didn't do something in particular, especially devoid of meaningful context, doesn't really mean anything for what we should do.

And there still seems to be this odd sentiment floating around this board that our window isn't opening now, that it's almost closing and we need to dump our prospects to WIN NOW!. Which is just insanely stupid and how you end up having a trajectory like the Jets had after 2018 (not that they fully went all-in) where you make the conference finals once and then become an afterthought.

We are opening our window now and Lekkerimaki and Willander are key figures in the cheap and skillful reinforcements that we will need.
I know it's been a tough few years, but have some patience and let it play out.

If we deal one of them to over emphasize the next 2 seasons I will be livid.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

The Canucks in their forward group are in a weird but good position where you have some much depth that marginal upgrades are pointless. Mercer to the Canucks is pointless unless you think the potential is sky high (I don't), otherwise he is a marginal upgrade on players they already have that he would be taking a spots from. They need a legit top six forward preferably a top line forward, or an above average third line center preferably a 2nd line quality center that will play on the third line.

 

[pitseleh]

I feel like Hoglander is becoming the most underrated player in the league.

Guys 23, coming off a 24 goal season playing mainly 3rd/4th line minutes.

All while on a 1.1M contract.

Honestly one of the top players from his entire draft class!

Hoglander is an interesting one for me.

He’s not going to shoot 20%+ again without some good luck, but he still had 18 xG last year, so 15% might not be out of the question. You always have to worry those sorts of outlier seasons are not sustainable, but he generated xG at a similar rate in 2021/22 so there is starting to be a bit of a track record there.

You also don’t normally see players with strong possession numbers like he has need to rely on percentages to put up decent point totals, but his strong possession numbers are driven more by limiting chances against rather than generating a lot of offence. With him and Pettersson on the ice at 5v5 last year the Canucks gave up 1.88 xGA/60 - for context only Jordan Staal and Jordan Martinook gave up less amongst forwards with 800+ 5v5 minutes. Pettersson had a 60% xGF rate playing with Hoglander and 49% without him.

There are big questions as to whether either of those things are repeatable, so I don’t blame the team if they move him to avoid the risk he comes crashing down to earth, particularly since Tocchet does not seem to love him. But the upside is there in a way that isn’t always the case with a player that goes on a SH% driven bender.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Vegas traded Krebs (similar valued prospect to Lekkerimaki is now at the time), Tuch, and a 1st round pick (Ostlund) for Eichel.

Florida grabbed Tkachuk in an equivalent value trade. Bennett Forsling Verhaege etc etc etc

Colorado traded Barrie (a top 4 defenseman at the time despite his flaws), Kerfoot (similar to Hoglander), and a B prospect for Kadri. Traded Justin Barron (a 1st round, top 50 RHD prospect) and a 2nd for Lehkonnen, a 2nd + 3rd for Burakovsky, and 2 2nds for Toews.

Blues traded 2 1sts for Schenn, Thompson, a 1st and 2nd + 2 depth players for ROR.

These guys won cups within 2 years of these aggressive transactions happening. Willander and Lekkerimaki are years away from contributing. If there’s guys like BTkachuk, Konecny, Theodore whoever available, I’m putting all my cards on the table.

this was Gillis biggest problem in that era. Hodgson, Shroeder, 2011 1st and 2 3rds, 2012 1st and a 2nd, 2013 1st and a 3rd. In the end, those picks never amounted to anything.

Even with Tampa, literally all of their quality depth came through free agency and late round draft picks that they developed. A long shot 3rd rounder who smoked cigarettes every day back in 2014 with poor fitness turns into a star. they went out and got Cernak, Sergachev, and McDonough etc

TLDR: go all out.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

sorry i have nothing else to add

 

[credulous]

We are opening our window now and Lekkerimaki and Willander are key figures in the cheap and skillful reinforcements that we will need.
I know it's been a tough few years, but have some patience and let it play out.

If we deal one of them to over emphasize the next 2 seasons I will be livid.

broberg was 8th overall and lundell was 12th. sergachev was 9th. newhook was 16th. it's not like these teams didn't have first round picks comparable to lekkerimaki and willander

my point is you're already pencilling in lekkerimaki and willander when there's a lot of uncertainty about whether they'll contribute at all. you're sacrificing improvements now for the hope that it'll be worth it 2-3-4-more years down the line

i'm not saying they should be moved for marginal improvements or depth players. mercer isn't that though. he's a player that could be a top 6 fixture for 5+ years. again i'm not really a huge fan of him and i definitely don't think it's a slam dunk he'll be worth more than willander in three years but getting the extra years now when the roster is peaking is worth the risk if you believe the player can help now

bird in the hand

I agree, basically, but "who helps now" needs to be more specific. As in ,"helps a very lot now," or, better yet, "pushes the Canucks into cup-favourite territory now."

yeah i mean obviously you don't move willander for josh manson or christian dvorak but i think mercer is in the range where you consider it at least

 

[mriswith]

Willander is basically a top 5 draft pick because 2023 was a bonkers draft with 4, maybe 5, first overall in other draft calibre players.

If he isn't in our top 4d for at least the last OEL 4 mil penalty year then we missed on the pick.

 

[wonton15]

My line is at Willander. Untouchable. I would, however, actively shop Lekkerimaki (and 1sts+) for a legit needlemover either up front or on D. If someone like Shea Theodore shakes loose, we instantly become a real contender if we pull off something like that. Not saying it has to be Theodore, but yes they almost should be moving Lekk this year.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

broberg was 8th overall and lundell was 12th. sergachev was 9th. newhook was 16th. it's not like these teams didn't have first round picks comparable to lekkerimaki and willander

my point is you're already pencilling in lekkerimaki and willander when there's a lot of uncertainty about whether they'll contribute at all. you're sacrificing improvements now for the hope that it'll be worth it 2-3-4-more years down the line

i'm not saying they should be moved for marginal improvements or depth players. mercer isn't that though. he's a player that could be a top 6 fixture for 5+ years. again i'm not really a huge fan of him and i definitely don't think it's a slam dunk he'll be worth more than willander in three years but getting the extra years now when the roster is peaking is worth the risk if you believe the player can help now

bird in the hand



yeah i mean obviously you don't move willander for josh manson or christian dvorak but i think mercer is in the range where you consider it at least

So in terms of looking at the future, you're on the record as saying you would deal Lekkerimaki or WIllander to get Mercer?

Look, I like Mercer a lot more than some people do. I watched a fair bit of his first two years and saw shades of Parise. I know he had a bad year and I think there is a chance to get a decent asset there if they sour on him.

But you don't go for a distressed asset RFA who is going to require more than we can afford, and deal one of our two upcoming (quite likely) contributing ELC's to do it. For me, Lekki and Willander are members of the upcoming core barring a trade for a young, cost controlled genuine star. And Mercer ain't that.

Trading one for a Mercer now runs the risk of turning into dealing Getzlaf or Perry in 07 for like an older and more expensive player who plays in the middle 6 and doesn't make much of a difference (note I'm not comparing hall of fame careers here, but their cheap and important contributions to a good team while on ELC).

If I'm San Jose or something I would be looking at giving Mercer a chance to blossom. Or if we had cap space and depth problems. But I really think history would look back unkindly on a trade of this type. Keep our powder dry on this one.

 

[Peen]

Irf also comes across as a smug douche on social media, which isn’t a good look for someone who looked like he was shitting his pants in every TV appearance & hasn’t exactly had a stellar record as an insider

 

[VanJack]

My line is at Willander. Untouchable. I would, however, actively shop Lekkerimaki (and 1sts+) for a legit needlemover either up front or on D. If someone like Shea Theodore shakes loose, we instantly become a real contender if we pull off something like that. Not saying it has to be Theodore, but yes they almost should be moving Lekk this year.

No way they're ever going to shop Lekkerimaki.....he's the heir apparent replacement for Boeser, who they'd like to bring back but are likely going to find it impossible.

Having a young scoring winger like Lekkerimaki on an ELC is a golden ticket as far as the salary cap is concerned.

 

[Wisp]

Vegas traded Krebs (similar valued prospect to Lekkerimaki is now at the time), Tuch, and a 1st round pick (Ostlund) for Eichel.

Oh Eichel is available again, is he?

 

[LemonSauceD]

So in terms of looking at the future, you're on the record as saying you would deal Lekkerimaki or WIllander to get Mercer?

Look, I like Mercer a lot more than some people do. I watched a fair bit of his first two years and saw shades of Parise. I know he had a bad year and I think there is a chance to get a decent asset there if they sour on him.

But you don't go for a distressed asset RFA who is going to require more than we can afford, and deal one of our two upcoming (quite likely) contributing ELC's to do it. For me, Lekki and Willander are members of the upcoming core barring a trade for a young, cost controlled genuine star. And Mercer ain't that.

Trading one for a Mercer now runs the risk of turning into dealing Getzlaf or Perry in 07 for like an older and more expensive player who plays in the middle 6 and doesn't make much of a difference (note I'm not comparing hall of fame careers here, but their cheap and important contributions to a good team while on ELC).

If I'm San Jose or something I would be looking at giving Mercer a chance to blossom. Or if we had cap space and depth problems. But I really think history would look back unkindly on a trade of this type. Keep our powder dry on this one.

Unless there’s mid to late round talents absolutely blowing off the doors like Getzlaf/Perry/Pastrnak/McAvoy/Johnston/Stankoven in their D+1 and 2 seasons (pretty rare), a team that is currently in their cup window like ourselves should not just be hoarding assets in hopes of some miracle they turn out to be contributors right out the gate.

And obviously no one’s talking about trading these assets for mid level players but actual needlemovers.

Most contending teams that have ELC’s contributing for them are top 10 picks gained from a down year or shrewd trade (Colorado with Makar and Byram), league minimum UFA signings, (Joshua types), college and overager signings, and sometimes, training camp surprises. Very rarely do you have a Getzlaf or Johnston just come in and become a difference maker as most contending teams don’t pick high enough to pick higher end prospects and so when players like them do come and emerge, it’s pretty much convenient luck.

I mean look at Tampa. Essentially they had undersized and low potential guys like Point, Palat, Johnson, Gourde, etc who aren’t included in trades for top tier players because they don’t really have much prospect value and so they remain untouched and left to develop. And so when they’re 22-24, suddenly they appear with 3-4 years of development under their belts, coke to training camp, steal a roster spot, and emerge into NHL players, with teams benefitting from those for a couple of years.

As @wonton15 said above, Willander is practically untouchable due to our unique situation on defense, but if Tkachuk is on the table and Willander MUST be included or the trade falls off, I’m including him in it.

 

[Nick Lang]

people put too much weight on prospects like willander, lekkerimaki, raty, etc

i'm not saying they'll bust but go look at how few rookies/sophomores make meaningful contributions to their teams and then look at their ages and/or where they are drafted. the kinds of guys who come in on an elc and play big minutes for contenders are either top 5 picks or come out of nowhere

the closest thing the panthers had last year or the year before to a meaningful rookie contributor was lundell in his age 20/21 seasons (after making the league fulltime in his age 19). vegas had nobody. edmonton had nobody unless you count broberg in his age 22 season or mcleod in his age 23 season. colorado had byram and newhook both in their age 20 season but newhook barely contributed and byram was the 4th overall. the lightning had sergachev at age 21 but he was in his 3rd season at that point. the lightning also had cirelli and cernak but both barely played at age 22 before being more important at 23

if willander is an important canuck going forward it probably won't be for another two or three seasons. if you can move him now for someone who helps for those seasons and can still be around after that you have to at least consider it

I have to disagree. Mercer for Willander or Lekkerimaki would be a very poor trade for us. He's a weaker middle 6 player who we would be gambling on having a bounce back year. Then what, hope he's going to explode with Petey, after a down year. Super risky when it's unnecessary. We already have players capable of scoring 20 goals.

We have to stop making those poor decisions of throwing our assets away at a tiny hope of competing now. If we can somehow get Brady Tkachuk, Suzuki, Keller, Larkin, Raymond, Wyatt Johnson, Sharangovich, Erickson Ek, Kyrou, Hintz, Jarvis, or similar then sure you look at it. Vegas had Nic Hague (24) and Edmonton had Holloway. Looks like all those teams had younger drafted players who made a difference. They were also cheap which was huge for spending to the max in other positions.

I think your premise is quite flawed.

None of the teams you are mentioning had high recent draft picks. And also, the NHL is incredibly weird, myopic, and stupid when it comes to precedent and that bleeds into the media and fandom.

Like how every team starts chasing their tail to adopt the style of the most recent cup winner. So like, when the Canucks lost in the finals to Boston everyone including us suddenly put an emphasis on being tough, etc. But if Hamhuis, Malhotra, Samuelsson, Raymond, Ehrhoff, Edler, Rome, etc etc weren't some combination of out with injury, out due to suspension, or playing severely diminished due to injury, then we likely win that cup and now the whole league starts chasing puck possession as the only way you can win.

So overemphasizing the fact that most successful teams of the last two years didn't do something in particular, especially devoid of meaningful context, doesn't really mean anything for what we should do.

And there still seems to be this odd sentiment floating around this board that our window isn't opening now, that it's almost closing and we need to dump our prospects to WIN NOW!. Which is just insanely stupid and how you end up having a trajectory like the Jets had after 2018 (not that they fully went all-in) where you make the conference finals once and then become an afterthought.

We are opening our window now and Lekkerimaki and Willander are key figures in the cheap and skillful reinforcements that we will need.
I know it's been a tough few years, but have some patience and let it play out.

If we deal one of them to over emphasize the next 2 seasons I will be livid.

Couldn't agree more. Unless there is a trade our there that immediately vaults us to Stanley Cup favorites it's not remotely worth trading away our only blue chips assets to tinker with the middle six. As you say our window is opening now, it's not this year or bust. We need to correct the error of selling off our assets every year in a vain attempt to do as good as possible. First we need to get some prospects adding value on elc contracts, surround them with quality players, and then that would be the time to trade assets and go all in. We have been doing it backwards for too long.

 

[racerjoe]

Vegas traded Krebs (similar valued prospect to Lekkerimaki is now at the time), Tuch, and a 1st round pick (Ostlund) for Eichel.

Florida grabbed Tkachuk in an equivalent value trade. Bennett Forsling Verhaege etc etc etc

Colorado traded Barrie (a top 4 defenseman at the time despite his flaws), Kerfoot (similar to Hoglander), and a B prospect for Kadri. Traded Justin Barron (a 1st round, top 50 RHD prospect) and a 2nd for Lehkonnen, a 2nd + 3rd for Burakovsky, and 2 2nds for Toews.

Blues traded 2 1sts for Schenn, Thompson, a 1st and 2nd + 2 depth players for ROR.

These guys won cups within 2 years of these aggressive transactions happening. Willander and Lekkerimaki are years away from contributing. If there’s guys like BTkachuk, Konecny, Theodore whoever available, I’m putting all my cards on the table.

this was Gillis biggest problem in that era. Hodgson, Shroeder, 2011 1st and 2 3rds, 2012 1st and a 2nd, 2013 1st and a 3rd. In the end, those picks never amounted to anything.

Even with Tampa, literally all of their quality depth came through free agency and late round draft picks that they developed. A long shot 3rd rounder who smoked cigarettes every day back in 2014 with poor fitness turns into a star. they went out and got Cernak, Sergachev, and McDonough etc

TLDR: go all out.

Maybe I should have just replied to your last post, but I don’t consider mercer a needle mover…

I always maintain anyone is tradeable but it has to be the right trade.

 

[DimitriL07]

They need another top 4 dman not a Mercer. I’m still spooked by the bottom pairings.

 

[Sexy Necksy Garland]

McNabb would also be another defender in the big, physical, but lacking in puck moving abilities style that we already have in abundance. Not the type of player we should be targeting at this stage, IMO.

Got lots Tarzan, need more Jane

 

[David71]

dog days of summer in terms of hockey news.

 

[F A N]

people put too much weight on prospects like willander, lekkerimaki, raty, etc

i'm not saying they'll bust but go look at how few rookies/sophomores make meaningful contributions to their teams and then look at their ages and/or where they are drafted. the kinds of guys who come in on an elc and play big minutes for contenders are either top 5 picks or come out of nowhere

the closest thing the panthers had last year or the year before to a meaningful rookie contributor was lundell in his age 20/21 seasons (after making the league fulltime in his age 19). vegas had nobody. edmonton had nobody unless you count broberg in his age 22 season or mcleod in his age 23 season. colorado had byram and newhook both in their age 20 season but newhook barely contributed and byram was the 4th overall. the lightning had sergachev at age 21 but he was in his 3rd season at that point. the lightning also had cirelli and cernak but both barely played at age 22 before being more important at 23

if willander is an important canuck going forward it probably won't be for another two or three seasons. if you can move him now for someone who helps for those seasons and can still be around after that you have to at least consider it

So... age gap? Seriously though, I think if the idea is to push in the chips to try and win a Cup over the next 1-2 seasons, what you're saying is reasonable. If you can pry away a young player on a good contract (or can be signed to a good contract) the team should consider it.

Vegas traded Krebs (similar valued prospect to Lekkerimaki is now at the time), Tuch, and a 1st round pick (Ostlund) for Eichel.

Florida grabbed Tkachuk in an equivalent value trade. Bennett Forsling Verhaege etc etc etc

Colorado traded Barrie (a top 4 defenseman at the time despite his flaws), Kerfoot (similar to Hoglander), and a B prospect for Kadri. Traded Justin Barron (a 1st round, top 50 RHD prospect) and a 2nd for Lehkonnen, a 2nd + 3rd for Burakovsky, and 2 2nds for Toews.

Blues traded 2 1sts for Schenn, Thompson, a 1st and 2nd + 2 depth players for ROR.

These guys won cups within 2 years of these aggressive transactions happening. Willander and Lekkerimaki are years away from contributing. If there’s guys like BTkachuk, Konecny, Theodore whoever available, I’m putting all my cards on the table.

this was Gillis biggest problem in that era. Hodgson, Shroeder, 2011 1st and 2 3rds, 2012 1st and a 2nd, 2013 1st and a 3rd. In the end, those picks never amounted to anything.

Even with Tampa, literally all of their quality depth came through free agency and late round draft picks that they developed. A long shot 3rd rounder who smoked cigarettes every day back in 2014 with poor fitness turns into a star. they went out and got Cernak, Sergachev, and McDonough etc

TLDR: go all out.

Gillis was trying to build a contender that contended every year so he didn't want to trade away all of his young pieces/draft picks. The Canucks were up against the cap in 2010-2011 (that required some brilliant work from Gilman) so I'm not sure if the Canucks were in a position to acquire anyone of substance (apart from moving Ballard's contract). The 11-12 season was another matter, but there were a lot of self-inflicted harms there.

 

[F A N]

I feel like Hoglander is becoming the most underrated player in the league.

Guys 23, coming off a 24 goal season playing mainly 3rd/4th line minutes.

All while on a 1.1M contract.

Honestly one of the top players from his entire draft class!

Ya well Benning and Weisbrod moved Hoglander up the list and stripped Brackett of his autonomy.

More seriously though, I like Hoglander a lot but his ability to finish has always been a question mark. Is he a keeper as a top 6 winger? I'm not so sure. I do think Hoglander can be re-signed for an affordable price.

I like Mercer as well (more than Hoglander). I thought he would develop into a good 3C but that might not be his path. Problem with Mercer is his contract demands. He might be one of those players you perpetually overpay.